Volourn Posted May 27, 2006 Author Share Posted May 27, 2006 (edited) "If anything, continued support of NWN1 could only be seen as good publicity for NWN2 'cause it would feed the belief that NWN2 would see such support. The cancellation only makes people doubt that NWN2 will enjoy the same type of support." Game over. edit: Comments from Mr. Zoeller of Bio on the NWN boards (same thread as earlier)... "There were other modules in production of high quality and with a lot of work put into them by other parties as well, so this is really a sad outcome all in all. I'll comment on the DLA stuff since that's the module I'm most familiar with." That's pretty close to a confirmation that the jest of the issue is true... link: http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.ht...&forum=42&sp=60 Edited May 27, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 "If anything, continued support of NWN1 could only be seen as good publicity for NWN2 'cause it would feed the belief that NWN2 would see such support. The cancellation only makes people doubt that NWN2 will enjoy the same type of support." Because the 4+ years just don't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 You are saying D&D titles sell too bad to get out of red numbers? If so why so many D&D games like IWD, BG, NWN, ToeE, (partially) PS:T, Kotor etc. Ok, so Kotor is space fantasy, but to call it a D&D title... Infogrames is just following the old tradition of the french buying american publisher names and running those companies into the ground while working on D&D titles "Atari" must have been hurting for a long while, having had a few suspicions since they shelved BG3 after having ripped the license from Interplays cold dead hands. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 27, 2006 Author Share Posted May 27, 2006 (edited) "Because the 4+ years just don't count." Have you ever heard the saying: What have you done for me lately? Atari is not in good shape apparantly. They're desperate. They're very likely to move on to theirNext Big Hit tm after NWN2 is released without asecond glance. Remember, it's not like Atari was pouring money into NWN1. BIO, and the PM *were*. Multiple Pm were in the works - likely BIO already apid those involved cosnidering they were under NDAs, and thw work was approved by Atari/WOTC/Hasbro throughout the process- yet, NOW they cancel it? Face it, in Ataris warped minds, NWN1 a 4 year old game is a threat to NWN2 a new game's success all because they were going to add rideable horses? Give me a break. It shows Atari has little faith in NWN2 or Obsidian. Too bad as my faith in NWN2's success is much higher than the one who is paying for it. Hahahaha! Edited May 27, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 (edited) Face it, in Ataris warped minds, NWN1 a 4 year old game is a threat to NWN2 a new game's success all because they were going to add rideable horses? Well, Volo's warped little mind seems to not be able to comprehend why it would be an issue. So I guess there's no sense discussing it anymore. Hahahaha Edited May 27, 2006 by alanschu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassat Hunter Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 You are saying D&D titles sell too bad to get out of red numbers? If so why so many D&D games like IWD, BG, NWN, ToeE, (partially) PS:T, Kotor etc. Ok, so Kotor is space fantasy, but to call it a D&D title... The "partially" infront of PS:T is also in effect for Kotor. Seems like some words fell away from my post there; and I would like to edit the following sentance as to let it make sense Lol; if only D&D games can be made by one company how can it be such a game saved said company if this is the first financial crisis " Is supposed to be Lol; if D&D games can only be made by one company how can it be such a game NEVER saved said company if this is the first financial crisis " ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhruin Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Too much to reply to so I'll just simply say, I think it's a shame many of you think it's fine to pull support on a game that isn't costing Atari anything (as far as we know, BioWare is shouldering everything), potentially out of fear instead of seeing it as a positive marketing force for the new title. Many people do enjoy the PMs and this doesn't benefit gamers at all, so I don't really understand why some want to rush off to defend Atari. It's bad for at least some gamers - how is it good for any gamers? And before commenting on DLA's humility or amateur status, go read Zoeller's comments in the thread Volourn linked. On one title saving Atari, they have been in this position several times before. The one that comes to immediate mind is Driv3r, where they bet the farm and just pulled through. IIRC, they pre-shipped 4 million copies of that, so NWN2 isn't likely to help as much. Still, this is what Atari does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Raven Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 If Atari 'dies', isn't the DnD CRPG license just going to be acquired by some other company? Interplay dying didn't stop NWN from flourishing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep. I am sure that EA is waiting. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> NO Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 The "partially" infront of PS:T is also in effect for Kotor. Seems like some words fell away from my post there; and I would like to edit the following sentance as to let it make sense Except that he had PS:T under the "partially" as well. I imagine he was saying that it was "partially" successful (which in the long term it was). Since PS:T is certainly not "partially" a D&D game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassat Hunter Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 (edited) Face it, in Ataris warped minds, NWN1 a 4 year old game is a threat to NWN2 a new game's success all because they were going to add rideable horses? Keep hearing this stuff about "It was scrapped for the ridable horses" OMFGZORS. But if that is the main reason. Besides; who the F*** cares for horses. After Oblivion I surely don't mind having to NEVER see them in RPG's again... There are way better reasons to think for scrapping; reasons who not only sound more reasonable, but are also alot more likely to be Atari's reason for the scrapping of the PM's... Not to say I agree with the descision, though... Except that he had PS:T under the "partially" as well. I imagine he was saying that it was "partially" successful (which in the long term it was). Since PS:T is certainly not "partially" a D&D game. Yes. I had added "partially" infront of PS:T because it is, well, partially a D&D game (to me atleast...). Same with Kotor. The others (IWD, BG, NWN) are pure D&D though, that's why they didn't get "partially" Edited May 27, 2006 by Hassat Hunter ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 There are way better reasons to think for scrapping; reasons who not only sound more reasonable, but are also alot more likely to be Atari's reason for the scrapping of the PM's... Since you brought it up you might as well suggest some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 27, 2006 Author Share Posted May 27, 2006 (edited) "Well, Volo's warped little mind seems to not be able to comprehend why it would be an issue. So I guess there's no sense discussing it anymore. Hahahaha" I'm sorry; but to think a 4 year old game that has long stopped being sold at full price (though it's nowhere near bargain bin yet) is a threat to its OWN sequel in 2006 is just beyond ludicrous. The idea that those who enjoyed NWN and still play it will NOT buy NWN2 just because NWN was still being supported is ludicrous. I'd wager that this move costs them a lot more potential customers than the other waya round. Thankfully, for them, it would take a natural disaster to swallow me up whole, for me NOT to buy NWN2... and, even then.. I'd find a way to cotninue playing NWN1, a nd NWN2. R00fles! P.S. "potentially out of fear instead of seeing it as a positive marketing force for the new title." This is the part that should be emphasized. P.PS. According to certain DLA fellows, BIo supposeldy had some plans to continue making NWN2 PM including a popular NWN1 PM.. but stopped such plans as after this action they don't want to be involved in Atari's messes, anymore... So, again, this hurts more than it helps NWN2. Hmm.. Edited May 28, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassat Hunter Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 (edited) Since you brought it up you might as well suggest some. Most are already mentioned in the thread... but here it goes again; 1. Competition. If there is full support (by Bioware) on NWN there will be less people who want to step over since they can just stay with NWN1 2. People can use the money they otherwise spend on PM's to buy NWN2. Something which get's Atari money, while the PM's don't (or alot less) 3. If there is barely any support after NWN2's release, there cannot be any blame on the fact NWN still has; which would be bad publicity for OE and Atari 4. It allows Atari for less support for NWN2 (+$); seeing there should be no "support competition" from BioWare 5. There did was some D&D license violation in these PM's which made Atari give up the deal with BioWare 6. They might even be forced by WoTC or Hasbro P.PS. According to certain DLA fellows, BIo supposeldy had some plans to continue making NWN2 PM including a popular NWN1 PM.. but stopped such plans as after this action they don't want to be involved in Atari's messes, anymore... So, again, this hurts more than it helps NWN2. How is a BioWare made PM for NWN2 (is that even allowed; them making paid mods for a game they didn't make themselves?) profitable in any way for Obsidian or Atari? Unless BioWare pays loads of $ in order to get rights to make PM's for NWN2, but I doubt it... Edited May 28, 2006 by Hassat Hunter ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 28, 2006 Author Share Posted May 28, 2006 (edited) Hassat, read my post above yours. This move (if rwhat is being said is true) may have actually *hurt* post NWN2 release support. BIO was supposedly interested in making NWN2 PM... not anymnore it seems like... Being able to say that they had Bioware on board for NWN2 PM (meaning supporting) would be a boon to advertise, I would think... Illogicalness on Atari's part, indeed... edit: "How is a BioWare made PM for NWN2 (is that even allowed; them making paid mods for a game they didn't make themselves?) profitable in any way for Obsidian or Atari? Unless BioWare pays loads of $ in order to get rights to make PM's for NWN2, but I doubt it..." You said it. Atari would likely make money off of it.. as well as Obsidian... And, it be a marketing boon for sure... Edited May 28, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Bioware can speak for itself. It doesn't need DLA to put words in its mouth. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 28, 2006 Author Share Posted May 28, 2006 (edited) But, Llyr will speak for himself... twice! :D Well.. it seems.. what DLA has stated thus far has been 'proven' accurate more or less so I say keep it up! I have no reason to think they are lying, and since they are no longer under 'hush' orders they aren't doing anything wrong... Edited May 28, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 I don't know what you're talking about. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassat Hunter Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 (edited) You said it. Atari would likely make money off of it.. as well as Obsidian... And, it be a marketing boon for sure... Ehm, I never said that. I even find that highly unlikely. Hell, do you really believe NWN2 can sell LESS if BioWare does not make stuff for it. If so why does OE even makes NWN2 in the first place anyways? BioWare cannot come in crying tears for a game they SHOVED OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE. Anyways; I think OE is good enough themselves in making a good game with high sales. They really don't need "content delivered later by BioWare" tag on the box to get any sells... I actually hope the content in NWN2 will crush NWN and stuff; only to show the BioWarians they are not the "gods among RPG-creators"... Edited May 28, 2006 by Hassat Hunter ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 I'd take an Obs-made DD mod over a Bio one any day, but getting more from both isn't a bad thing. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 28, 2006 Author Share Posted May 28, 2006 (edited) "I don't know what you're talking about." We'll keep it our little secret. :ph34r: "Ehm, I never said that. I even find that highly unlikely." I meant that you said it... Atari would do do it to make money, and why wouldn't they? "Hell, do you really believe NWN2 can sell LESS if BioWare does not make stuff for it. If so why does OE even makes NWN2 in the first place anyways? BioWare cannot come in crying tears for a game they SHOVED OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE. Anyways; I think OE is good enough themselves in making a good game with high sales. They really don't need "content delivered later by BioWare" tag on the box to get any sells..." Look. 1. NWN2 si goinna sell 1 million+ copies easy no matter what. This isn't disputed. 2. Obsidian is great, and they'll do a great job. 3. For you to dispute that Bioware's name to a project won't help it sell is absolute nonsense. Why don't you ask Atari why they suggested the NWN2 boards be at www.bioware.com instead of www.obsidianent.com ? Hmm.. quite a pickle in that bunch.. Unless youa re saying that NWN2 will sell more WITHOUT Bioware's name attached? Hahahaa. Besides, Atari has alreayd used Bioware's presence to hype NWN2. Check this link out: http://www.atari.com/nwn2/gallery_video.php What logo do you see there along with Obsidian and Atari's? Game over. Edited May 28, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassat Hunter Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 So if BioWare makes additional (for additional $) cash it would up the NWN2 sells you think? Why do I doubt that. If you don't find OE's OC interesting enough you surely not going to find a PM from BioWare that is likely 1/4 the size good enough to buy the game. And if you don't care about the included campaigns because you want to mod and DM why care about both? Not talking about the name on the box but the fact BW (not me ) is making content for the game itself. And I doubt that both 1) Atari/OE gains loads of cash for BW made PM's (might aswell ship an X-Pack themselves) 2) BW giving a paid campaign is going to increase the original sales. And since alot of people now go I want NWN2 but not finance Atari why not following Alanschu/Metadigital's advise and use the revolutionair, ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 28, 2006 Author Share Posted May 28, 2006 "So if BioWare makes additional (for additional $) cash it would up the NWN2 sells you think? Why do I doubt that. If you don't find OE's OC interesting enough you surely not going to find a PM from BioWare that is likely 1/4 the size good enough to buy the game. And if you don't care about the included campaigns because you want to mod and DM why care about both?" You underestimate BIO's fanbase. Not me, of course, as I have every intention of buying NWN2. I don't determine what games I buy based on how much I like or dislike a company; but how much I may like a game (though the company making it does have a lot of influence in that regard). I enjoyed NWN1. I have no doubt I'll enjoy NWN2. But, NWN1 still getting supported would not have changed that. Of course, some people are much more hateful towards Atari than I am... but, *really* *really* like Bioware. Again, Atari *already* uses BIo to hype NWN2. Why is that if they don't feel BIO doens't have influence on NWN2 sales? Hmmm... :ph34r: DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Meh, the more extremist Bio fans are going to whine about DLA getting the shaft, then turn around and do the same to Obs. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassat Hunter Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 If they thought Bio has such a big share in the sales of a NWN2 they would have never let OE make it... ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 28, 2006 Author Share Posted May 28, 2006 (edited) If they thought Bio has such a big share in the sales of a NWN2 they would have never let OE make it..." Um.. BIo didn't want to develop NWN2. They passed on it, and suggested Obsidian. They had no choice to find another developer. However, it seems that BIO was interested in making PM for NWN2 (if Atari/Obsidian okayed it sinc ethey couldn't do it otherwise which is obvious). "Meh, the more extremist Bio fans are going to whine about DLA getting the shaft, then turn around and do the same to Obs." How are they screwing Obsidian? It's not like Obsidian is going to see a lot of the profits. LOL Espicially considering how desperate Atari is. Edited May 28, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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