Alignment

[Atreides]

"To defeat Evil, you must become Evil"

 

What kind of alignment are we looking at for a character like the Punisher? The dude's got a righteous cause - fighting on the side of justice but the methods he employs are pretty badass themself.

 

What if you have a necromatic inquisitor that believes in the righteousness of his cause but uses necromancy to "creatively" extract information from criminals? "You will surrender your answers, if not in life then in undeath whether you're willing or not" kind of thing? I think the dude's pretty aware of how hardcore his methods are and how people would react with revulsion but he's focused on his path because he's convinced of the righteousness (good?) of it.

 

What kind of alignment are we looking at here?

 

Btw no connection the zombie horse dude that keeps skulls that whisper their knowledge to him. Nope, none at all.

 

Edited for spelling.

Edited August 9, 2006 by metadigital

[Cantousent]

You are truly a doofus. However, I will say that the alignment system sucks. I hate it. In DnD, it's a major part of the rule-set. However, in games where you make or break your own code of ethics and morals there is a much wider variety of possibilities. Decisions are harder in such systems because there is no over-arching guideline upon which to base your decisions other than what you take into your own internal code.

[Jediphile]

I agree that the D&D alignment rules suck. I couldn't outlaw them fast enough for the players IMC. Real characters are far too complex to fit nicely into nine fixed little categories.

 

That said, I'd believe the punisher is Chaotic Neutral. He clearly puts himself above the law, and so he is opposed to being lawful. He tends more towards good than evil, but I'd still place him closer to neutral than good, since he is quite willing to commit immoral acts by killing people. Batman would be a little closer to chaotic good, though he has taken turns for chaotic neutral in some of the darker periods of his life as well. He tends more towards good because he is not willing to take lives quite as casually, though.

[Atreides]

Thanks, but I should have made it a poll to force dudes like you not to sit on the fence.

 

Mods?

Q: The zombie horse dude is:

Lawful Good

Neutral Good

Chaotic Good

Lawful Neutral

True Neutral

Chaotic Neutral

Lawful Evil

Neutral Evil

Chaotic Evil

Way cool

 

Feel free to ask for more info on the zombie horse dude if you need it before you vote.

Edited May 18, 2006 by Atreides

[Cantousent]

Ah, I'm sitting on the fence?! Heresy! Bah! Flames and dark tidings.

 

Oh, what the hell, I'm too tired. I'll just answer your question, then. :Eldar's slapping Atreides on the back icon:

 

I think he'd be chaotic neutral. The fact is, no matter his goals, his methods are crazy. He might think of himself as good, but he is not. Since he employs his evil methods for the service of a perceived greater good, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and not label him outright evil. I will, however, say that I would not invite him over for tea.

[Judge Hades]

That is why I like the Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved variant. It removes the Alignment aspect of the game.

[Musopticon?]

I vote way cool.

 

 

 

 

Can I get paid now?

[thepixiesrock]

There's just one more thing to do before you get your check. If you catch my meaning! And I think you do.

 

 

I mean sex. With me.

[Musopticon?]

Can I be Magneto?

[Nick_i_am]

Dude, i'm not gay.

[Musopticon?]

Yes, but you are the french maid.

[Gromnir]

alignment is evil

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Kaftan Barlast]

D&D is teh poopie:

 

 

-OMG! who stole Mrs. Flanders garden gnome?!

-Lets gather everyone in the square, cast "detect evil" and find out!

[Dark_Raven]

When you gaze into the Abyss, the Abyss gazes back into you.

[thepixiesrock]

Has anyon seen that movie? Abyss? I did, and I thought it was pretty good.

[Fenghuang]

"To defeat Evil, you must become Evil"

 

What kind of allignment are we looking at for a character like the Punisher?  The dude's got a righteous cause - fighting on the side of justice but the methods he employs are pretty badass themself.

 

What if you have a necromatic inquisitor that believes in the righteousness of his cause but uses necromancy to "creatively" extract information from criminals?  "You will surrender your answers, if not in life then in undeath whether you're willing or not" kind of thing?  I think the dude's pretty aware of how hardcore his methods are and how people would react with revulsion but he's focused on his path because he's convinced of the righteousness (good?) of it.

 

What kind of allignment are we looking at here?

 

Btw no connection the zombie horse dude that keeps skulls that whisper their knowledge to him.  Nope, none at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Didn't he end up evil and/or insane at one point in the comic as a direct result of him becoming progressively jaded and increasingly violent because of the methods he uses?

 

I think the comics answered your own question. Also I've got some mean heartburn from this sammich I just ate.

[Atreides]

This is from Eldar from a locked thread.

 

Down with alignment! I mean, what the hell, why doesn't every town have someone who casts detect evil every day. Bring everyone in and kill the folks who glow! hahahaha

 

There should totally be a campaign where this happens. Maybe we could set up 3 towns/cities where everything goes according to Allignment Rules. Crazy ass evil town, Super diddly do Good town and Neutral town.

 

Players interact with them, maybe starting/solving conflicts etc. A nod to Allignment craziness that ****s with your mind.

 

NWN2 toolkit anyone?

Edited May 24, 2006 by Atreides

[Atreides]

The campaign'll probably be deeper if we get to explore the complexity within each group. The different faces of Good (within Good town) etc. I think it's an interesting way to explore allignment.

[Cantousent]

Well, there is that collaborative project you mentioned earlier. heh heh heh

[Ginthaeriel]

The people who lambast Alignment for restricting roleplaying, tebd to also like Planescape: Torment for its deep roleplaying aspects.

That makes no sense though because the Alignment system basically WAS planescape: torment. All the planes, all the characters... everything was built around the alignment system. You even had lecturers placed in the game (civic festhall) to explain how important the alignment system was and how it tied into everything in the game. Vhailor for example, was specifically written as a character to epitomize lawful neutral. Nordom's entire personality was based off the fact that his alignment was the opposite of his race's natural alignment, and the same could be said for Dak'kon and to a lesser extent, Fall-from-Grace. The only options for TNO's personality were based off the alignments themselves... and he still managed to become a pretty deep character no matter how you played him. Seriously, "Truth: I don't know my name" vs. "Lie: Adahn"? They had to label your responses, categorize them so you knew exactly which response made you more lawful and which made you more chaotic.

 

I'm no big fan of alignment, I do agree that it more often than not, restricts character development. However I don't think it's necessarily BAD. I think if done right, it can work really well, especially in your cheesy good vs. evil classic heroic-myth style campaigns that you have to play every once in a while. The real world is morally ambiguous and gray enough, and choices in your boring day to day life are conflicting and difficult to make anyways. Why would you want to carry that excessively into your entertainment? There's a reason why your boring old good vs. evil plots are always so popular. It's escapism.

 

I'm not saying that morally gray/ambiguous games without alignment are bad, though, far from it. They're usually the deepest games with the most character development. I'm just saying that alignment isn't a TOTALLY useless thing.

Edited May 24, 2006 by Ginthaeriel

[Tigranes]

Since I don't believe in an absolute and universal value of Good and Evil, that throws me into "Alignments are bad cookies" party, but I suppose it's the most efficient way to do it in RPGs, pnp or not.

 

Unless reputaiton/faction system comes in.

[Cantousent]

I agree Ginthaeriel. There are ways to use alignment that make it more palatable. This is where folks who generally agree that alignment is bad disagree on the fine points. I liked the alignment system in PS:T whereas I tend to dislike it. Maybe it's just the implementation, but I hate spells like detect evil. I hate abilities such as smite evil.

 

Folks say that alignment isn't a straightjacket, but alignment invariably turns into a game of confinement. To top it all off, the DM is forced to judge alignment all the time.

 

So, even though I don't like the alignment rules, and since they're such an integral part of the ruleset, I appreciate new and interesting ways of implementing alignment.

[Volourn]

" but alignment invariably turns into a game of confinement "

 

No. Only in poor campaigns it does. Then again, youa re the one actually thinks alignment = reputation. Hahaha!

 

It's written right in the books: Alignment is a *tool* NOT a *straightjacket*.

 

You cna role-play your character as you see fit. Nothing or no one should stop you.

[Cantousent]

Oh, get back in your cage. Dammit. :Eldar's beating Vol with a stick and feeding him raw meat icon:

 

Alignment does suck. Ha goodfun game over kthanksby hahahah roflmao whatever.

[Volourn]

LOLOLOLLIPOP