NWN 2 DM Client will not ship with the game

Volourn · May 12, 2006

"Volourns argument that if it's not in the game at release they may not do it at all is more understandable,"

My argument is they won't need to. The game si release. Those who buy the game knowing the DM Client isn't included in the package (this includes me, sadly enough) are stating with their money quite clearly the game is wrothy of $50+ without it so they don't have no obligation to release it all.

"Fine, I'll be playing a LG Paladin with a hammer tomorrow!"

That's the spirit! But, it must be a human (everyone loves humans) male (females are a minority in gaming so no need to support that either)!!!

Hassat Hunter · May 12, 2006

so you might as well be content with the OC + toolset for a month or two.

And then people complain that games are bugridden/rushed and miss alot of stuff.

It is what we wan't. Rush those games out of the door... we only wan't to play them (and not completely ofcourse; mostly because that ain't possible). Hell, let the modders fix every issue... and proceed on the next project.

I find it highly amusing alot of the people who whine about those rushed games are perfectly fine with letting about 20% of a game away because they can "patch it later"...

Edited May 12, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

Dark_Raven · May 12, 2006

"We ESPECIALLY never need to cut the easter eggs."

Yeah, only 90% of the gamers ever notice them!

(w00t)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Flaws corrected.

Spider · May 12, 2006

they don't have no obligation to release it all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Except the promise they made in the post quoted. I know it's not a legal obligation, but it speaks clearly to their intent. So obligation or not, it seems to be likely that the DM client will be released.

Edit:

I find it highly amusing alot of the people who whine about those rushed games are perfectly fine with letting about 20% of a game away because they can "patch it later"...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's because in this case a lot of the people won't even consider looking at the DM-client, so not having it in the game on release won't affect their gaming experience at all. So instead of being forced to wait for a feature that has no consequence to them, they'd rather have the game released. Again, if you just don't buy the game until it's released it won't have any effect on your experience either.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Spider

Jumjalum · May 12, 2006

I find it highly amusing alot of the people who whine about those rushed games are perfectly fine with letting about 20% of a game away because they can "patch it later"...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've never whined about a rushed game in my life. I look on it as a bonus that things usually get fixed in games. If you buy a movie no amount of whining is going to get the director to reshoot a number of scenes that didn't work.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Jumjalum

Volourn · May 12, 2006

"Except the promise they made in the post quoted. I know it's not a legal obligation, but it speaks clearly to their intent."

Like horses? Like it being included in the release.

Someone on the BIo baords pulledan old quote up from obsidian stating how they were going to treat ALL aspects of NWN (SP OC, MP, toolset, and DM Client) with equal respect. They also understood that NWN series is *not* most games. In fact, it's the existence of the DM Client that makes it special.

Things change. After the game is release, they don't owe us any more content (other than patching obvious major bugs like crashes and stuff). That's why to me in this case, if it means delaying the game to get the DM Client inside the package they should do it.

Besides, the 'I don't care attitude' of some, I doubt the SP will *not* buy the game if it's release is delayed to November.

Hassat Hunter · May 12, 2006

Except the promise they made in the post quoted. I know it's not a legal obligation, but it speaks clearly to their intent. So obligation or not, it seems to be likely that the DM client will be released.

Obsidian has a rep. of keeping up that stuff fast and good. 1.0B and movies/music patch anyone

WE WILL RELEASE IT IN A DAY OR 2

Oh yeah...oh yeah, even 2 months was not enough.

Flaws corrected.

Hey hey... Don't go on making sense here now. We are supposed to be the willing gaming slaves who accept that they get their games incomplete, rushed and bugridden...

It's because in this case a lot of the people won't even consider looking at the DM-client, so not having it in the game on release won't affect their gaming experience at all. So instead of being forced to wait for a feature that has no consequence to them, they'd rather have the game released. Again, if you just don't buy the game until it's released it won't have any effect on your experience either.

30% of the gamers are "not alot of people". Damn, if that was true I think NWN2 should jack up graphics and minimum reqs. Really, 30% of our fanbase we can easily miss, no?

I've never whined about a rushed game in my life. I look on it as a bonus that things usually get fixed in games. If you buy a movie no amount of whining is going to get the director to reshoot a number of scenes that didn't work.

Director's Cut. DVD Deleted Scenes. Extended Versions... :thumbsup: "

Oh, and usually movies do not cut off the final to offer them later for download... or do they? Think Gladiator and then find out the entire end fight was cut out... would you like that even if it was later offered to you?

(other than patching obvious major bugs like crashes and stuff)

HAHAHAHAHA. Never noticed that with alot of games *cough*KOTOR2*cough*

Edited May 12, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

Dark_Raven · May 12, 2006

"Except the promise they made in the post quoted. I know it's not a legal obligation, but it speaks clearly to their intent."

Like horses? Like it being included in the release.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah yes no horsies for us, plus the DM client being gone for now. Since they cut that out, they better have been focusing on making this a complete and near bugless game.

Spider · May 12, 2006

30% of the gamers are "not alot of people". Damn, if that was true I think NWN2 should jack up graphics and minimum reqs. Really, 30% of our fanbase we can easily miss, no?

That's not what I said at all. I was explaining why people who complain about rushed games thought it was fine that the DM client wasn't in on release. I was in no way arguing from Obsidian's point of view.

But still, you haven't answered the most relevant question.

If the DM client is released a month after the game goes retail, how does your experience change compared to the game being delayed an extra month?

Volourn · May 12, 2006

"If the DM client is released a month after the game goes retail, how does your experience change compared to the game being delayed an extra month?"

Simple. The DM Client was suppoosed to apart of the game. Now, it's not, and might be added as a bonus patch. It's no longer a part of what they are selling.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Volourn

Hassat Hunter · May 12, 2006

If the DM client is released a month after the game goes retail, how does your experience change compared to the game being delayed an extra month?

Take KOTOR2. Take your evaluation after completion; would "there seems to be alot of WTF in here" suit? Now let's imagine the game came a month later and you would feel like "This is so uber"... get it?

Even if you get the second response after a patch you already had the first one, and that one is NEVER going away...

You can patch a game like Bloodlines as many times you wan't, somebody who played it right away is going to remember the bugginess...

Edited May 12, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

Jumjalum · May 12, 2006

"If the DM client is released a month after the game goes retail, how does your experience change compared to the game being delayed an extra month?"

Simple. The DM Client was suppoosed to apart of the game. Now, it's not, and might be added as a bonus patch. It's no longer a part of what they are selling.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bet you a gazillion dollars the DM client will be released, it's as good as part of the game.

Spider · May 12, 2006

It's not the same thing though. Here we are talking two completely different components of one game, not sections within a component. This is not an issue of bugs but of missing content that has no effect at all on the gameplay.

As for Bloodlines, I played it unpatched and had no problems with bugs. There was only one I really noticed and while that one was sever I quickly found a workaround.

But you're still avoiding the question. I am, of course, assuming that you won't buy the game until the DM component is released since it's so important to you.

Simple. The DM Client was suppoosed to apart of the game. Now, it's not, and might be added as a bonus patch. It's no longer a part of what they are selling.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've already gotten your answer, so this really wasn't directed to you. And even so, the question makes the assumption that the client will be released, so the answer doesn't work.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Spider

Hassat Hunter · May 12, 2006

I bet you a gazillion dollars the DM client will be released, it's as good as part of the game.

Wait? First it is totally expendable and now it is a "as Good as part of the Game". Lol, conflicting statements...

It is a good part of the game... only thing is; it AIN'T in the game :rolleyes:

But you're still avoiding the question. I am, of course, assuming that you won't buy the game until the DM component is released since it's so important to you.

With all the news around I doubt I maybe even EVER will buy NWN2. Seeing as how NWN was total crap won't help either.

I have to answer that question again? Let's see if I find another way to describe it that you see fitting this time. I doubt it since my other 3(?) attempts failed...

Okay, it may be 2 parts of the game; but they are PARTS of the game. If you go scraping PARTS of a game that is way worse than just scraping small things of the game, no? You can promise a game with 3 MODES, but even if they are totally independant of each other you only get 2, you feel cheated no? Besides that they cut a complete 33% out of the game where you actually paid for too!

If you are scrapping things that are part of the game they are no longer part of the game... making really conflicting word-thingies to happen...

Really; how would you feel if your game you purchase is having this Revolutionary new function called DM client... and you don't get it?

If a game-box says: This game includes 3 lush different worlds and you only get 2 how would you feel?

Besides that I fear this DM-client is only the tip of the iceberg...worse is yet to come...

Edited May 12, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

LostStraw · May 12, 2006

I can understand complaining about poor support, bad bugs, and various other things. But crap like this makes me wonder why anyone would want to become a dev in the first place (damned if you do.. uh, damned if you do the other thing too). This is just needless bashing... so you're upset because what?

The game isn't getting delayed along with the DM client (what.. no.. that wouldn't be selfish at all)? Or are you mad that they arn't releasing it earlier in a more buggy state? Or maybe you're mad because they arn't working fast enough to deliver the perfect flawless game.

I want my pink pony, it shouldn't cost me more then 5$ .. and it better be here within the next week. Or I'll hate you forever Sawyer :rolleyes:

Hassat Hunter · May 12, 2006

There IS a reason why games are sold when they are done LostStraw... and this is an example of a gamerelease when it is not done.

Sure, they can release everything later... but it is common if we buy something we buy all.

Devs could ofcourse ship us ACT I of the NWN2 story now and all the new parts of NWN2 as soon as they are finished... but why do you think they ship when they have the whole picture complete? (well, actually they don't seem to be doing now anymore... and see the fuss)

Lol, why did they ship Kotor2 in a whole package, they could have released Peragus as copy in the store MONTHS before we could buy it now and then have Telos, Korriban, Nar Shaddaa, Dxun, Onderon, Dantooine, Malachor V for DL when they were done... but they don't. Weird, isn't it?

Edited May 12, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

Spider · May 12, 2006

Let's see if I find another way to describe it that you see fitting this time. I doubt it since my other 3(?) attempts failed...

But you're still not answering the question. You're describing why it's bad not to have the DM client in the game and I get that. But what I want to know is how your gaming experience will differ from the DM client being released a month later. All you have to do is to wait until the client is released to buy the game (if you are indeed buying it at all) and your gaming experience will be virtually identical. Or even improved since a patch will hopefully taken care of any bugs in the game upon release.

LoneWolf16 · May 12, 2006

With all the news around I doubt I maybe even EVER will buy NWN2. Seeing as how NWN was total crap won't help either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why, in the name of everything are you posting in here to attack a game you don't plan on buying or having anything to do with at all? :shifty:

Wook, they're not advocating the loss of content, or pleading for buggier games, they're providing a nice, logical argument that neither you or Volo seem to understand. There is no difference, zero, between holding the game back another month to include the DM Client and releasing it a month before, when everything else is ready, then giving us the Client a month after.

It's the same amount of time. You lose NO time, whatsoever. Both of you, take two seconds to think about that.

And no, it doesn't matter what you think about Obs. "screwing their fan base", because it just doesn't make sense. You get the same content at the end of the same amount of time.

I'm not about to be screwed into waiting for a game I reeeeeeeally want, just because they want to cater to people who can't understand a simple bit of logic. :rolleyes:

To repeat; It makes no difference. They will release the DM client, but you'll just have to wait...like you would have to anyway if they held the game back.

God, most of this thread just seems like bashing for the sake of bashing.

Hassat Hunter · May 12, 2006

Well, ofcourse my game experience changes.

Think I wanted to go through the OC with a friend using DM client... I can't!

Maybe the lure is so strong I play OC SP before the DL is available and then when I can play it with my friend all the exciting new things like exploring together are gone...

LostStraw · May 12, 2006

There IS a reason why games are sold when they are done LostStraw... and this is an example of a gamerelease when it is not done.

Sure, they can release everything later... but it is common if we buy something we buy all.

Devs could ofcourse ship us ACT I of the NWN2 story now and all the new parts of NWN2 as soon as they are finished... but why do you think they ship when they have the whole picture complete? (well, actually they don't seem to be doing now anymore... and see the fuss)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So it's the "you're mad they arn't working fast enough to get the game out on Atari's schechuled release date"? Whip those devs harder Hassat, I think they need it. Because if anything you should be whining over at Atari, trying to get them an extension. But I don't think the business quite works that way.

If they did release the DM client early, I'd hardly call a broken -- buggy feature a complete game. They're doing the best thing they can and you're giving them flack for it?

Edited May 12, 2006 by LostStraw

Moose · May 12, 2006

Well this has blown it for me. There is no way whatsoever I'll ever buy the game until I know handsdown that I'm going to get what I pay for. There's no way I'm paying upfront for something I'm then going to have to wait on the hope or promise they'll put it in later... who the hell do Obsidian think they are, the government?

As one friend of mine put it:

"oops nwn2 will ship without any character models...you will just have a silver cube"

Would have sounded much better! Come on guys, you're supposed to be professionals.

LoneWolf16 · May 12, 2006

To everyone still complaining about the content not being there...wait until the DM client is released, then buy the game. :rolleyes:

Hassat Hunter · May 12, 2006

-SNAP-

I wasn't planning on responding untill I saw all those cheers for OE for releasing incomplete and cut games.

Lovely from the same people who bash LA for doing it with Kotor2.

Or those who complain about the fact Devs rush for PC-games "because they can stick it in a patch"

Hell, if you hate it devs rush out games because any flaws can be patched why cheer if OE does the exact same thing... ONLY ON A BIGGER SCALE...

HELL, did nobody learned from Half-Life 2's DEATMATCH DEBACLE? :shifty:

So it's the "you're mad they arn't working fast enough to get the game out on Atari's schechuled release date"? Whip those devs harder Hassat, I think they need it. Because if anything you should be whining over at Atari, trying to get them an extension. But I don't think the business quite works that way.

Yeah, they were on such a thight scedule to begin with, eh :rolleyes:

Edited May 12, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

LostStraw · May 12, 2006

To everyone still complaining about the content not being there...wait until the DM client is released, then buy the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I'm planning on, give them some time to fix up some of the inevetible bugs in the release as well. I usually buy games awhile after releases anyway for the price falloff, I'm cheap.

Edited May 12, 2006 by LostStraw

LoneWolf16 · May 12, 2006

-SNAP-

I wasn't planning on responding untill I saw all those cheers for OE for releasing incomplete and cut games.

Lovely from the same people who bash LA for doing it with Kotor2.

Or those who complain about the fact Devs rush for PC-games "because they can stick it in a patch"

Hell, if you hate it devs rush out games because any flaws can be patched why cheer if OE does the exact same thing... ONLY ON A BIGGER SCALE...

HELL, did nobody learned from Half-Life 2's DEATMATCH DEBACLE?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you completely miss everything I said...or just ignore it?

And no, I don't remember any debacle. I was too busy playing the game to notice anything. :shifty:

NWN 2 DM Client will not ship with the game

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