6 new Mass Effect screenshots

[Tigranes]

Heh.

 

Hahahahahahaha

[Musopticon?]

Sure.

 

Edit: This is going to be interesting

Edited May 10, 2006 by Musopticon?

[alanschu]

I'm a PC gamer first too Mus, and even then I can understand the appeal of the console platform.

[Musopticon?]

I'm just happy to live in the golden years of video gaming for a bit longer, before it's time to say goodbye to other home entertaiment than a radio and say hello to student loan and books. :D

[Tigranes]

You mean student loan repayment, right?

[StillLife]

Dragon Age.

 

I meant available Volourn. A few tidbits on an official message board and a crappy website don't amount to much.

 

They are. The people who made them successful are Bioware employees.  They owe us nothing. We didn't make them successful. Them making games people wnat to play is what made them successful. And, oh, JE is coming to PC because BIo does remember their PC customers. Period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

People buying the games they made is what made them successful. You can make a great game and if no one buys it, it's still a financial failure.

 

Porting JE even though they said(read between the lines) that it would be an Xbox-exclusive doesn't exactly sound like forgetting PC gamers. Not to mention the port will hardly have any market since all the fanboiis already bought the original for Xbox. Then again, Biowarians might have waited this long just to cash in again once the moneyflow from Xbox JE has twindled to nothing. So the versions don't compete with each other.

 

Two years after it was released? They just want all the sales they can garner so the game doesn't end up being such a financial let-down. They don't give a rats ass about PC gamers. I'm a BioWare fan, I own an Xbox, yet I don't have Jade Empire, I doubt I'm alone.

 

Yeah, of course it was competing with brand names (KOTOR and NWN) as well as a multi platform title in KOTOR. Not to emntion, the 1 billion versions of NWN out there as well and all the rereleases.

 

Excuses excuses.

 

Not a very comaprision.

 

Of course it is. Had they of released it on the PC, they could've even pumped in some more money from an expansion for it.

 

Yet, it has still sold 600k+ copies (and, that was good 6+ months ago so that number has likely increased and at leats in my area the price is still decent)..

 

That's crap.

 

Plus, there's the simple fact that JE is 1 million times better than KOTOR.

 

R00fles!

 

Haven't played it so I don't know.

 

I predict that in 2 years there will be 10 million 360s and those with PCs will buy it too, since they will either:

 

a)swallow the marketing bull****

b)multiplatformers are marketed for consoles foremost

c)get annoyed by the constant need for upgrading

d)find 360 appealing

 

10 million would be pretty poor on a global scale and still insignifcant to the PC market. There are six million unique accounts just for one PC game: World of Warcraft.

 

Your arguments are what people said for the Xbox(myself included). It didn't come to pass, and I doubt it will this time. People will always need PCs and many people just prefer playing games on them for the distinct advantages they currently have over consoles(mainly the Xbox).

 

I've had this same rig for three years now and haven't had to make a single upgrade for it aside from buying a new keyboard. It was $1200(including the monitor) and I can still play most modern PC games on high settings, or in the case of Oblivion, mediumish.

 

Lets compare that to three years with an Xbox 360 with Live service.

 

10 dollars extra for Xbox 360 games. Assuming you buy 10 games a year, that's an extra 300 dollars you wouldn't have spent buying PC games. 3 years for Xbox Live gold, at around $150.

 

$450 + $400(for the most basic bundle) = $850. Not including the cost of an HD TV, as that wouldn't be really fair. I'm not including all the marketplace BS either. For a few hundred dollars more, you could buy a nice gaming rig, and get all the advantages a PC provides just aside from gaming. Anyone who really thinks buying an Xbox 360 is the more cost effective alternative to buying a decent PC is a fool.

Edited May 10, 2006 by StillLife

[Volourn]

"People buying the games they made is what made them successful. You can make a great game and if no one buys it, it's still a financial failure."

 

Like I said, they've made games that people want to buy. That's the key phrase here. You cna make a 'great' agme that people don't want to play; but BIO make sgame that for whatever reason (hype, same views, etc.) that people *want* to play. That's why they are successful because THEY made themselves successful. This is undisputable. When, and if, BIO stops making games people don't wnat to play then they will crash and burn.

 

 

"I meant available Volourn. A few tidbits on an official message board and a crappy website don't amount to much."

 

ME isn't available either. So, it doesn't count either. In which case, their last 3 game shave been JE (x-box), KOTOR (x-box/PC), and NWN (PC). Seems rather even to me.

 

 

"Two years after it was released? They just want all the sales they can garner so the game doesn't end up being such a financial let-down."

 

You do relaize that the game will have to sell on PC to make up the cost opf the port, right? They've said JE's port will take a year at least. And, no, JE's sales wasn't a finanical left down. In fact, MS disagrees with your assessment 100% as does BIo, and theya re the ones who determine if it was a 'financial letdown' since it effects them.

 

 

" They don't give a rats ass about PC gamers."

 

That explains why they've decided to make JE for PC. That they jsut released another NWN patch, and are planning even more PM. Not to mmention Dragon Age which is, according to them, their biggest game yet - even bigger than ME or JE.

 

 

"I'm a BioWare fan, I own an Xbox, yet I don't have Jade Empire, I doubt I'm alone."

 

That's funny. You own an x-box, and don't own JE. Yet you call yourself a BIo fan. L0LLERS!

 

Just admit you are a PC fan. Not a BIo fan. BIG difference. A BIo fan would buy their games (if they can afford to) no matter the platform it was. Me? i'll buy games that I can afford and that i'm interested. It just so happens that usually BIO makes games I want.

 

 

"That's crap."

 

No, that's fact.

Edited May 10, 2006 by Volourn

[alanschu]

10 million would be pretty poor on a global scale and still insignifcant to the PC market.  There are six million unique accounts just for one PC game:  World of Warcraft.

 

You do know that multiple accounts aren't actually that uncommon right?

 

 

Your arguments are what people said for the Xbox(myself included).  It didn't come to pass, and I doubt it will this time.  People will always need PCs and many people just prefer playing games on them for the distinct advantages they currently have over consoles(mainly the Xbox).

 

I've had this same rig for three years now and haven't had to make a single upgrade for it aside from buying a new keyboard.  It was $1200(including the monitor) and I can still play most modern PC games on high settings, or in the case of Oblivion, mediumish.

 

Lets compare that to three years with an Xbox 360 with Live service.

 

10 dollars extra for Xbox 360 games.  Assuming you buy 10 games a year, that's an extra 300 dollars you wouldn't have spent buying PC games.  3 years for Xbox Live gold, at around $150.

 

$450 + $400(for the most basic bundle) = $850.  Not including the cost of an HD TV, as that wouldn't be really fair.  I'm not including all the marketplace BS either.  For a few hundred dollars more, you could buy a nice gaming rig, and get all the advantages a PC provides just aside from gaming.  Anyone who really thinks buying an Xbox 360 is the more cost effective alternative to buying a decent PC is a fool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Disagree. As a PC fan, I think that anyone that thinks that the PC as a gaming machine compares in any way cost wise is just trying to convince themselves of the fact. Console gaming is cheap and it is easy.

Edited May 10, 2006 by alanschu

[Llyranor]

Cheap and easy. And rental-friendly, which just makes it even cheaper.

 

^_^

[alanschu]

Ah yes, I always forget the rentals.

[Hurlshort]

After watching some gameplay for Mass Effect, I'm convinced this is the God of War game for the 360. That's cool with me, although I'm not expecting much on the RPG front.

[Volourn]

Read the previews. It should have as much role-playing as the other BIO RPGs, and likely more... take that as you will (for those who think BIO's games have no role-playing )...

 

It should easily be better than the overrated KOTOR. That's for sure.

Edited May 10, 2006 by Volourn

[StillLife]

Like I said, they've made games that people want to buy. That's the key phrase here. You cna make a 'great' agme that people don't want to play; but BIO make sgame that for whatever reason (hype, same views, etc.) that people *want* to play. That's why they are successful because THEY made themselves successful. This is undisputable. When, and if, BIO stops making games people don't wnat to play then they will crash and burn.

 

Volourn, the money from customers is what makes a company successful in the long run. If you can't understand that basic concept, I can't help you.

 

ME isn't available either.  So, it doesn't count either. In which case, their last 3 game shave been JE (x-box), KOTOR (x-box/PC), and NWN (PC). Seems rather even to me.

 

It will be released before any other game they have in the works, and it's in a further state of development than any other game they're making so it does count. KOTOR was primarily an Xbox game. It took like six months to release the PC version, but you can have that one anyway as what I said still holds true.

 

"Two years after it was released? They just want all the sales they can garner so the game doesn't end up being such a financial let-down."

 

You do relaize that the game will have to sell on PC to make up the cost opf the port, right? They've said JE's port will take a year at least. And, no, JE's sales wasn't a finanical left down. In fact, MS disagrees with your assessment 100% as does BIo, and theya re the ones who determine if it was a 'financial letdown' since it effects them.

 

Porting it won't cost that much, especially since they're not adding in any substantial new features. 600k for a game isn't that great for a game any way you look at it, especially compared to BioWare's previous huge successes.

 

That explains why they've decided to make JE for PC. That they jsut released another NWN patch, and are planning even more PM. Not to mmention Dragon Age which is, according to them, their biggest game yet - even bigger than ME or JE.

 

Again, they're making JE for the PC to get more money, not out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

That's funny. You own an x-box, and don't own JE. Yet you call yourself a BIo fan. L0LLERS!

 

Just admit you are a PC fan. Not a BIo fan. BIG difference. A BIo fan would buy their games (if they can afford to) no matter the platform it was. Me? i'll buy games that I can afford and that i'm interested. It just so happens that usually BIO makes games I want.

 

I said fan, not mindless fanboy. I bought an Xbox for KOTOR, before it was announced it would come to PC too. By the time JE came out, I was just too disinterested in my Xbox to bother even touching it.

 

No, that's fact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A fact it's crap.

 

You do know that multiple accounts aren't actually that uncommon right?

 

Nope, because they are. There isn't much reason for one person to have multiple accounts to themselves.

 

Disagree. As a PC fan, I think that anyone that thinks that the PC as a gaming machine compares in any way cost wise is just trying to convince themselves of the fact. Console gaming is cheap and it is easy.

 

Nice way to back up your opinion with blanket statements.

 

Cheap and easy. And rental-friendly, which just makes it even cheaper.

 

Barely cheaper. Can you guys grasp the concept that a PC does a hell of a lot more than a console? Rentals are one thing consoles do have in their favor for sure, but PC games are cheaper in many ways than console games. Their price goes down faster and lower, and the initial price is lower.

 

I'm not knocking consoles in general, just the Xbox. Nintendo and Sony have things with their system that you won't get with a PC. Xbox 360 is basically just PC Jr. without the plethora of features.

[Volourn]

"Volourn, the money from customers is what makes a company successful in the long run. If you can't understand that basic concept, I can't help you"

 

if you cna't get the simple concept that companies are the engineers of their successes and failures; then I can't help you.

 

Again, people buy BIO games because BIO makes games they want hence BIO is why they succeed. That's all that matters.

 

 

"Again, they're making JE for the PC to get more money, not out of the goodness of their hearts."

 

Likely, if it was *only* about money they would have ported it right away. They likely a greta portion of the PC customer base for JE PC simply because many went out and bought the x-box stritcly for that.

 

Plus, once again, youa re right. In the end, it's about money. Companies owe customer sno loyalty because customers don't know what true loyalty is. You can't buy loyalty. period.

 

If you bought BG2; BIO owed you BG2... not future PC games. Even though, they *are* making PC games. This is a fact, there is no abandonment on their part of the PC customer base.

 

Once again, the big lesson here is simple:

 

You. can't. buy. loyalty.

 

NOR

 

You. can't. sell. loyalty.

 

 

Once money is involved, loyalty is no longer involved. Period.

Edited May 10, 2006 by Volourn

[StillLife]

if you cna't get the simple concept that companies are the engineers of their successes and failures; then I can't help you.

 

Consumer support is the deciding factor in the end.

 

Again, people buy BIO games because BIO makes games they want hence BIO is why they succeed. That's all that matters.

 

It's certainly a contributing factor.

 

Likely, if it was *only* about money they would have ported it right away. They likely a greta portion of the PC customer base for JE PC simply because many went out and bought the x-box stritcly for that.

 

Because most likely Microsoft had them agree to an exclusivity deal which has likely expired.

 

Plus, once again, youa re right. In the end, it's about money. Companies owe customer sno loyalty because customers don't know what true loyalty is. You can't buy loyalty. period.

 

Sure you can, look at you and BioWare. Not staying loyal to your customers/fans can cost you business.

 

If you bought BG2; BIO owed you BG2... not future PC games. Even though, they *are* making PC games. This is a fact, there is no abandonment on their part of the PC customer base.

 

If you have built up a large fanbase doing one thing, then you go do something else that works contradictory to their interests, it's bound to annoy some of that base and can be considered as abandonment of their interests.

 

Once again, the big lesson here is simple:

 

You. can't. buy. loyalty.

 

        NOR

 

You. can't. sell. loyalty.

 

Wrong.

 

Once money is involved, loyalty is no longer involved. Period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Loyalty can contribute to financial success, so again that's simply not true.

[Volourn]

"Sure you can, look at you and BioWare."

 

Nope. I'll don't buy everything BIO makes simply because BIO makes it. If I did, I'd be all over DD. I still haven't played two of their games nor have I played POTSC despite it being a module for my favorite game.

 

My loyalty when it come sto gaming is 100% for me. It's all about me. I buy, play, and praise games I think, do, and will like. The only reason why I 'pimp' BIO so much is because I tend to enjoy the games they make; not because they simply are BIO. Again, I point to the whole DD issue of this that I have no loyalty to BIO.

 

You can't buy or sell loyalty. It's bollocks to think otherwise.

 

However, it should be pointed out that I never claimd that customers don't help to make businesses succeed. of course, they do. Afterall, they buy the products and services. However, customers tend to spend money on products/services they feel are worth their money, and that's why the company itself is more important because a company will fail if they are doing something customers don't want.

 

 

There's a reason why some companies succeedd, and others fail even though they're selling almost the same thing - it's because some companies are good at what they do; and others not so much.

 

 

Game over.

 

 

"If you have built up a large fanbase doing one thing, then you go do something else that works contradictory to their interests, it's bound to annoy some of that base and can be considered as abandonment of their interests."

 

Thanks. You just admited it. They're not true 'fans'; just selfish people only looking out for their own interests. I rest my case. No loyalty there at all. Nothing wrong with being selfish in this case; but let's call us spades.

 

We want what we want no matter what. We don't care if BIo (or some other company) succeeds or fails. We just want 'em to make games we want. That's the way it should be; but it certainly isn't loyalty.... unless it's loyalty to one's self you mean.

 

LOL :D

[alanschu]

Volourn, the money from customers is what makes a company successful in the long run. If you can't understand that basic concept, I can't help you.

 

I agree with Volourn on this one. Bioware's success is a testament to them making a game that people wanted to play. And it was an excellent game. All Bioware owes to people that bought PC games is that they support the PC games that were bought.

 

You talk about consumer support, but this fails to realize that prior to Baldur's Gate, Bioware didn't have consumer support. And despite not having consumer support, they still sold a ton of copies of it.

 

Yes a game needs customers to buy it to be successful, but generally games need some sort of quality to them in order for sales to be high enough to be successful. I doubt the Bioware fans would continue to support Bioware if Bioware started making crappy PC games.

 

Companies don't come out of no where and maintain a high profile and be recognized for quality games and maintain a loyal fanbase simply by releasing products. They get (and stay) there by releasing quality products.

 

While I disagree about Volourn on how successful Jade Empire truly was in the eyes of Bioware and Microsoft, I would not be the least bit surprised if their expectations were not as high as they were for KOTOR and NWN.

 

 

Barely cheaper. Can you guys grasp the concept that a PC does a hell of a lot more than a console? Rentals are one thing consoles do have in their favor for sure, but PC games are cheaper in many ways than console games. Their price goes down faster and lower, and the initial price is lower.

 

All that "hell of a lot more stuff" that you can do with a PC can be done without the power of a gaming PC. I sure as hell don't need a Radeon 9800 Pro to type this message to you. And few PC owners are going to use high end PC graphics for that high end video editing that just needs to be done. So yes, I can grasp that the PC can do more. I can also grasp that the vast majority of these extra things used by the average joe could be done on a $300 eMachine.

 

The funny thing is that the price argument is actually a reflection of the market not being as strong. If there was enough demand to charge the same for the Windows version of Call of Duty 2, then they would charge it. And the accelerated rate of the price dropping (games like Half-Life would disagree however) means that demand drops off that much faster.

 

But considering that, to have a PC adequately play games for the next 5 years, you aren't going to be buying a $100 video card. In 5 years, the $600 Radeon X1900 XTX might still be usable, but forgive me if I reserve my judgement that it will run the new games particularly well. My old card before my 9800 Pro was the Radeon 8500, which is nothing more than a paperweight now, given it doesn't support any of the new shader models, and was completely incapable of running a game like Far Cry. Not bad for something that cost me $300 3 years ago.

[StillLife]

Nope. I'll don't buy everything BIO makes simply because BIO makes it. If I did, I'd be all over DD. I still haven't played two of their games nor have I played POTSC despite it being a module for my favorite game.

 

Yet you buy the vast majority of things they have made and rabidly defend them on message boards. If that's not loyalty, I don't know what is.

 

The only reason why I 'pimp' BIO so much is because I tend to enjoy the games they make...

 

Exactly, so you have loyalty to them.

 

You can't buy or sell loyalty. It's bollocks to think otherwise.

 

False.

 

However, it should be pointed out that I never claimd that customers don't help to make businesses succeed. of course, they do. Afterall, they buy the products and services. However, customers tend to spend money on products/services they feel are worth their money, and that's why the company itself is more important because a company will fail if they are doing something customers don't want.

 

You lost me there. I didn't say the actions of a company aren't important, just that the end result of those actions often comes down to the consumer. As such, they are not more important than customers. Haven't you ever heard that expression "the customer is always right?"

 

There's a reason why some companies succeedd, and others fail even though they're selling almost the same thing - it's because some companies are good at what they do; and others not so much.

 

Right, and customers decide which product is more appealing, and often loyalty can be what decides a purchase when it comes to two similar products.

 

Game over.

 

I win? "

 

Thanks. You just admited it. They're not true 'fans'; just selfish people only looking out for their own interests. I rest my case. No loyalty there at all. Nothing wrong with being selfish in this case; but let's call us spades.

 

Well of course people only remain loyal for so long. Loyalty isn't unending you know?

 

We want what we want no matter what. We don't care if BIo (or some other company) succeeds or fails. We just want 'em to make games we want. That's the way it should be; but it certainly isn't loyalty.... unless it's loyalty to one's self you mean.

 

If a company makes products you enjoy consistently, you'll choose their stuff over an unkown, and even buy things they've made that might not interest you so much...at least until you get sick of it. That's loyalty.

 

LOL  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

R00fles!

Edited May 10, 2006 by StillLife

[Volourn]

"If that's not loyalty, I don't know what is."

 

It is loyalty. Loyalty to *me*. I owe BIO nothing. They owe me nothing. I buy things I want. In the end, it doesn't matter who made it. I didn't know or care about BIO before BG. And, if it wasn't for me getting stuck on the 'net, I probably wouldn't waste time thinking about them all. But, hey, what else is there to do on the 'net but argue that x is better than ye? LOL

 

 

"Exactly, so you have loyalty to them."

 

Nope. Again, I have loyalty to *me*.

Edited May 10, 2006 by Volourn

[alanschu]

You lost me there. I didn't say the actions of a company aren't important, just that the end result of those actions often comes down to the consumer. As such, they are not more important than customers. Haven't you ever heard that expression "the customer is always right?"

 

What? ROFL!

[Volourn]

Alanshu wins.

[StillLife]

All that "hell of a lot more stuff" that you can do with a PC can be done without the power of a gaming PC.  I sure as hell don't need a Radeon 9800 Pro to type this message to you.  And few PC owners are going to use high end PC graphics for that high end video editing that just needs to be done.  So yes, I can grasp that the PC can do more.  I can also grasp that the vast majority of these extra things used by the average joe could be done on a $300 eMachine.

 

Bingo, but by shelling out a few hundred dollars for a PC, you get everything you get from a PC, plus a gaming system. If you have any interest in both--which a rapidly increasing number of people do these days--might as well get a nice PC.

 

The funny thing is that the price argument is actually a reflection of the market not being as strong.  If there was enough demand to charge the same for the Windows version of Call of Duty 2, then they would charge it.  And the accelerated rate of the price dropping (games like Half-Life would disagree however) means that demand drops off that much faster.

 

So what? Those advantages have been consistent to the PC for over a decade now.

 

But considering that, to have a PC adequately play games for the next 5 years, you aren't going to be buying a $100 video card.  In 5 years, the $600 Radeon X1900 XTX might still be usable, but forgive me if I reserve my judgement that it will run the new games particularly well.  My old card before my 9800 Pro was the Radeon 8500, which is nothing more than a paperweight now, given it doesn't support any of the new shader models, and was completely incapable of running a game like Far Cry.  Not bad for something that cost me $300 3 years ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's why you shell out the money for a good card to begin with. I'm still using my Radeon 9800 Pro from three years ago and will be for at least another year if possible. Before that I used my GeForce 2 in my old PC for ages. That's where much of the cost for a gaming PC comes from in the first place, so don't really see your point. Of course you're not going to buy a $100 card and expect it to last a long time.

Edited May 10, 2006 by StillLife

[StillLife]

"If that's not loyalty, I don't know what is."

 

It is loyalty. Loyalty to *me*. I owe BIO nothing. They owe me nothing. I buy things I want. In the end, it doesn't matter who made it. I didn't know or care about BIO before BG. And, if it wasn't for me getting stuck on the 'net, I probably wouldn't waste time thinking about them all. But, hey, what else is there to do on the 'net but argue that x is better than ye? LOL

 

 

"Exactly, so you have loyalty to them."

 

Nope.  Again, I have loyalty to *me*.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you buy their products because you tend to like the things they make, that's loyalty to them. Just because it's in your best interest doesn't make it any different, don't be silly.

 

If a soldier follows a captain who's been very successful in battles they've been involved with in the past, of course that's because it's been good for him. That's exactly why he's still loyal to the captain and is likely to follow him into the next one.

Edited May 10, 2006 by StillLife

[Hurlshort]

Read the previews. It should have as much role-playing as the other BIO RPGs, and likely more... take that as you will (for those who think BIO's games have no role-playing )...

 

It should easily be better than the overrated KOTOR. That's for sure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Doh, I was thinking of Too Human. My bad.

[alanschu]

Bingo, but by shelling out a few hundred dollars for a PC, you get everything you get from a PC, plus a gaming system.

 

Fixed.

 

For a few hunder dollars, you get an eMachine. For a few hundred dollars, you can't even get you a video card that will last until the end of the XBOX 360's development cycle. For a few hundred dollars, you certainly aren't getting a motherboard and CPU to go with the video card you just bought. For a few hundred dollars, you can get a gaming system with static hardware that will have support for the next 5 years.

 

So what? Those advantages have been consistent to the PC for over a decade now.

 

Because, on the whole, PC gaming is much more expensive and has a miniscule installed base compared to console gaming. You should count your blessings that more people do not become PC gamers, otherwise your prices will rise.

 

If you have any interest in both--which a rapidly increasing number of people do these days--might as well get a nice PC.

 

Or, you could buy a cheap computer to do the menial stuff, and a console, and STILL save money over any halfway decent gaming computer. And it will likely last longer to boot!

 

That's why you shell out the money for a good card to begin with. I'm still using my Radeon 9800 Pro from three years ago and will be for at least another year if possible. Before that I used my GeForce 2 in my old PC for ages. That's where much of the cost for a gaming PC comes from in the first place, so don't really see your point. Of course you're not going to buy a $100 card and expect it to last a long time.

 

If you shell out good money for a card, then you might as well buy a console. Because that Radeon X1900 XTX costs $600 as well. Given that the Radeon 9800 Pro came out 3 years ago, you paid a premium for it...likely the same cost as a console period. As for having your GeForce2 for "ages," I assume you mean 3 years...since they came out in 2000, 3 years before the Radeon 9800 Pro. Which, ironically, was also the same year that the PS2 was released.

 

You are insisting that people buy $600 graphics cards, which, by your own standard you didn't even keep for the duration of the console (since PS2s are still around and can still be bought). In order to last as long as that console, you had to buy a whole new $600 video card 3 years ago. Given your penchant of buying video cards right when they come out, you have spent $1000+ dollars on video cards alone, let alone motherboards with the appropriate AGP/PCI-E support that are required, in addition to new processors, RAM upgrades, etc. Meanwhile, someone back in 2000 plopped down $400 for a PS2, and could still be using it.