More stupidity abounds!

[Cantousent]

Congrats, Bethesda. This should really help instigate a new batch of sales.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

So what it leaves a loophole.  There are loopholes in everything nowadays so why not this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do I really have to answer that ?

 

Could it be that your in favour of this sort of backdoor manipulation ?

[Dark_Raven]

Congrats, Bethesda.  This should really help instigate a new batch of sales.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know it.

[LoneWolf16]

Meh, who cares about ratings, M-rated games are cool :cool:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That they are. Full of violence, blood and sometimes sex.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahh...the vampire dream. Violent and bloody sex.

 

 

 

...wait...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fixed with ease.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Haitoku]

I have to agree with SP on this issue... Not really because what he is saying though.

 

Oblivion is not a normal stand-alone game. One of the big draws for the players is to be able to create their own content (PC anyways). Leaving stuff like that out in the open really shouldn't happen... It's like buying building block... that have sexually explicit things written on them.

[Judge Hades]

Could it be that your in favour of this sort of backdoor manipulation ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe I am and maybe I am not.

 

In any case it requres a mod to implement it and new meshes and textures to implement it well. Its a mod therefore should have no bearing on the ESRB.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Diogo Ribeiro]

There is a difference between making something that didnt exist and just unlocking something that did.

 

Which, until having been unlocked, virtually did not exist. No one to the best of my knowledge is putting into question if the content was already there or not; its exististence in the game's code has been made aware. What is being questioned is why is content which is never seen in the game, unless through the actions of parties not affiliated with, nor supported by Bethesda, being used to rate it?

 

The ratings board appears to understand this as they havnt rerated games based on actual creations (what I call mods) but rather only on content which was already present.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I doubt the ESRB understands exactly what it is they're doing.

 

The whole point of ratings is to provide an independent and objective view of what is available in the game, not in the game's code. The whole situation is nonsensical for various reasons and just leaves unanswered question. The ESRB reviews several areas of content which make up the bulk of the game, but not the game's code as it is not a part of their rating agenda nor is it relevant at all when it comes to alerting the consumer to the game's content. It's simply not objective to state a game has mature content when said content will never be displayed by the game under any normal circumstances. Why are they doing this with what appear to be a select few?

 

Also, if they know what they are doing and evaluating then why did Oblivion had a non-mature rating prior to the one that is being suggested now? The game went under the ESRB's scrutiny (which ocasionally includes that members of it play the very games they analyze) and nothing in the game was found that merited a Mature rating. Now, it suddenly does because the ESRB decides to go beyond its boundaries and is now evaluating all the content a game has, wheter it will be a part of the end consumer's experience or not. Again, the very same nonsense that happened with San Andreas.

 

Either they adopt new standards that involve analyzing every last bit of content a game has to offer and developers roll with it, or they stick to evaluating the available and official content out of the box and come to realize that unused content is neither representative of the final product nor is it contributing to a different gameplay than what is advertised and/or rated.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Role-Player

[Judge Hades]

Oh, they haven't even played the game. They reviewed video sent to them by Bethesda.

 

IF YOU ARE GOING TO RATE A GAME. PLAY IT DAMN IT!

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I doubt the ESRB understands exactly what it is they're doing.

 

The whole point of ratings is to provide an independent and objective view of what is available in the game, not in the game's code. The whole situation is nonsensical for various reasons and just leaves unanswered question. The ESRB reviews several areas of content which make up the bulk of the game, but not the game's code as it is not a part of their rating agenda nor is it relevant at all when it comes to alerting the consumer to the game's content. It's simply not objective to state a game has mature content when said content will never be displayed by the game under any normal circumstances. Why are they doing this with what appear to be a select few?

 

Also, if they know what they are doing and evaluating then why did Oblivion had a non-mature rating prior to the one that is being suggested now? The game went under the ESRB's scrutiny (which ocasionally includes that members of it play the very games they analyze) and nothing in the game was found that merited a Mature rating. Now, it suddenly does because the ESRB decides to go beyond its boundaries and is now evaluating all the content a game has, wheter it will be a part of the end consumer's experience or not. Again, the very same nonsense that happened with San Andreas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then why leave the content on the disk ? Can you answer that ?

It obviously exists because it wasnt deleted btw.

 

At the time that was what the content indicated. By having the ability to unlock a file that already exists that violates the old rating.

 

I don't see it as nonsense. I see it as an abuse of the ratings system. If the developer never wanted this stuff to be seen they would have deleted it.

 

Whether you are in favour of it or not .It leaves a huge loophole for adding inapropriate content to games. It's only effect is likely to be much stricter scrutiny. This is Take Two's second strike I bet they will be watching them closely.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Oh, they haven't even played the game.  They reviewed video sent to them by Bethesda. 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's not unusual. Lot of the ratings are down to the honesty of the developer/publisher.

[Judge Hades]

That is just plain stupid.

 

Also, SP, I have a quiestion for you. If the material is to be unaccessable to the player during normal gameplay why have it deleted?

Edited May 4, 2006 by Judge Hades

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

That is just plain stupid.

 

Also, SP, I have a quiestion for you.  If the material is to be unaccessable to the player during normal gameplay why have it deleted?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hang on I'll post a form. It's long mind.

 

Why leave it there ? Why take the risk of it being found ? Surely you would be as eager to protect people according to the ratings as the ratings board.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

EUROPEAN VOLUNTARY AGE-RATING ASSESSMENT FORM

 

SECTION I - PRODUCT DETAILS

 

 

PRODUCT TITLE

PUBLISHER

PRODUCT FORMAT(s)*

APPROXIMATE RELEASE DATE

SYNOPSIS OF PRODUCT

 

* if game content or presentation differs significantly from format to format , please submit separate forms for each format

 

SECTION 2 - COMPLIANCE WITH NATIONAL LAWS

 

1. IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT THE ISFE VOLUNTARY AGE RATING SYSTEM MAY NOT BE USED FOR TERRITORIES WHERE A PRODUCT

[Judge Hades]

No, not really. I think the ratings system of the ESRB is kind of lame. Add to the fact they don't actually play the games makes their ratings pointless and ignorable. If they don't play the game themselves how can they accuarately know what the game has?

 

The ESRB is a failure.

 

The Euro version seems okay but who decides the yeses and noes. The publisher/developer or a third party? Also, is it really voluntary?

Edited May 4, 2006 by Judge Hades

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

No, not really.  I think the ratings system of the ESRB is kind of lame.  Add to the fact they don't actually play the games makes their ratings pointless and ignorable.  If they don't play the game themselves how can they accuarately know what the game has?

 

The ESRB is a failure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You don't need to play something to rate it. Your not reviewing it for play your reviewing it for content.

 

You can do that just as easily with a video. However the video you are sent must be representative of the content.

 

IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT CORRECT ANSWERS ARE GIVEN TO THE ABOVE QUESTIONS. A WRONG ANSWER COULD RESULT IN THE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION OF YOUR COMPANY AND/OR YOUR RETAILER CUSTOMERS IN THE UK. IF THE ANSWER TO ANY OF THE QUESTIONS IS

Edited May 4, 2006 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Judge Hades]

That is the key factor there but the only way to get a true ccurate picture of the game's content is to play it.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Then why leave the content on the disk ? Can you answer that ?

 

No, because I'm not aware of any reasons they might have had for doing so. I could speculate all night but it would be worthless for the discussion at hand since it's not about trying to justify the presence of mature content, but to question why should this content be detrimental to a game's rating or perception of it when it never is a part of the gameplay experience until the end user decides it to be.

 

It obviously exists because it wasnt deleted btw.

 

No one to the best of my knowledge is putting into question if the content was already there or not; its exististence in the game's code has been made aware.

 

 

At the time that was what the content indicated. By having the ability to unlock a file that already exists that violates the old rating.

 

So the ESRB were either atrociously lax in their duties or are using selective ratins when it comes to what type of content gets analyzed.

 

I don't see it as nonsense. I see it as an abuse of the ratings system. If the developer never wanted this stuff to be seen they would have deleted it.

 

An 'abuse of the ratings system' would imply that Bethesda shipped the game with hidden content with the clear intention of circumventing or illuding the ESRB, and I honestly doubt that they'd do so for a couple or reasons, chief among them that the mediatic nature of Hot Coffee has been enough to alert game developers to avoid doing this.

 

I'm much more inclined to believe the inclusion of this content was either a lapse, naivety in believing that it would not be accessed at all, or the lack of concern for the existence of content which does not in any way alter the final product out of the box no matter what ratings it gets.

 

Whether you are in favour of it or not .It leaves a huge loophole for adding inapropriate content to games. It's only effect is likely to be much stricter scrutiny. This is Take Two's second strike I bet they will be watching them closely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It leaves a bigger loophole in regards to ESRB's own standards and actions, as they are arbitrarily defining what type of content determines a game's final rating from game to game; are using misleading and alarmist ratings which due to their limited nature fail to explain the entire situation to the end consumer; and are showing their own system, for some or other reason, isn't as accurate as it is supposed to be which in turn just questions their usefulness in regards to an objective rating of videogame content.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

That is the key factor there but the only way to get a true ccurate picture of the game's content is to play it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not if the developer is being honest in portraying the content.

 

This would be bad both for the ratings boards and the developers since the process would go from watching a video for a couple of hours to having to invent possible 100's of hours investigating the game.

[Judge Hades]

Depending on someone else's honesty is the wrong way to go.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

An 'abuse of the ratings system' would imply that Bethesda shipped the game with hidden content with the clear intention of circumventing or illuding the ESRB, and I honestly doubt that they'd do so for a couple or reasons, chief among them that the mediatic nature of Hot Coffee has been enough to alert game developers to avoid doing this.

 

I'm much more inclined to believe the inclusion of this content was either a lapse, naivety in believing that it would not be accessed at all, or the lack of concern for the existence of content which does not in any way alter the final product out of the box no matter what ratings it gets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I said in Bethesda's case it was more than likely an oversight. But not with Hot Coffee.

 

If prevents other developers from making such oversights then it's done it's job.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Depending on someone else's honesty is the wrong way to go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe.

 

It depends if things like this become the rule rather than the exception.

[Calax]

given that gary's mod for Half Life plus some minor reskinning could turn it into a giant pixelated orgy... shouldn't half life 2 (the base program used to CREATE the mod) be rated AO by your idea SP?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

given that gary's mod for Half Life plus some minor reskinning could turn it into a giant pixelated orgy... shouldn't half life 2 (the base program used to CREATE the mod) be rated AO by your idea SP?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No idea what those are.

 

I'm only talking about things that are already on the disk but not enabled.

[Judge Hades]

A mod is a mod, SP. t requires a mod to activate the skins therfore its is a mod, on disk or not.

[Calax]

gary's mod is a mod that manupulates the envronment so you can create poser style work with the sourse engine...

 

you can reskin say... alex so that her model appears to have no clothing...

 

then you put her in a VERY sexual pose with gordon, the GMan, or any other member of the half life 2 cast and you've got an AO rated content that was created via mods...