The Cliche' of KotOR

[Sturm]

Well, thanks to Xard ive come up with numerous ideas about how kotor1 was a cliche' compared to ep 4, and then how k2 had similarities between 1

 

so let me start off:

KotOR1:

Endar Spire - Similar scenario to what happened to the tantive 4

Sith - Empire

Taris - a lot like tantooine, quarantined, escape pods

Black Vulkars - Jawas

Carth - Han Solo

Bastilla - Princess Leia?

Daviks EState - similar to the jabba the hutt estate, both high well known people on their home planets

Ebon Hawk - Similar name to Melinium Falcon, similar interior/design

T3 - R2D2

Zalbaar - Chewbacca

 

bah, gets harder on but i know there are more similarities between kotor and the movies and there are similarities between kotor1 and kotor2 characters, add your ideas down, about the stuff i have missed, and anything else, any other ideas you have come up with, and thanks to xard for the idea

Edited March 30, 2006 by Revan_Returns

[DAWUSS]

Well, thanks to Xard ive come up with numerous ideas about how kotor1 was a cliche' compared to ep 4, and then how k2 had similarities between 1

 

so let me start off:

KotOR1:

Endar Spire - Similar scenario to what happened to the tantive 4

Sith - Empire

Taris - a lot like tantooine, quarantined, escape pods

Black Vulkars - Jawas

Carth - Han Solo

Bastilla - Princess Leia?

Daviks EState - similar to the jabba the hutt estate, both high well known people on their home planets

Ebon Hawk - Similar name to Melinium Falcon, similar interior/design

T3 - R2D2

Zalbaar - Chewbacca

 

bah, gets harder on but i know there are more similarities between kotor and the movies and there are similarities between kotor1 and kotor2 characters, add your ideas down, about the stuff i have missed, and anything else, any other ideas you have come up with, and thanks to xard for the idea

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I kinda compared Bastila to C3PO in the beginning as I also compared the Black Vulkars to the Jawas (since Leia doesn't get captured by Jawas)

 

But who do you want to compare Malak to? Vader or Sidious?

 

Oh yeah, and when Malak and Revan first meet on the Leviathan it reminds me of when Han Solo, Chewie and Lando meet Darth Vader. All that was missing on the Leviathan was the Wookiee roar

[Sturm]

yeah thats true, but han solo didnt know vader, like carth did

maybe you can associate revan with luke, and malak with vader?

[Canaan Aphettu]

Revan kind of takes the place of both Luke or Anakin and Sidious, because of previous roles - the Sidious of the piece is the former Darth Revan, and if Revan returns (no, I'm not talking about you ) that's an Anakin story, whereas the LS ending with the Star Forge destroyed is far more Lukey.

 

 

Let's not forget that HK-47 is the "protocol" droid of the piece. So he's kind of Threepio.

 

And I guess Calo Nord is the Boba Fett of the piece.

[Xard]

Well, thanks to Xard ive come up with numerous ideas about how kotor1 was a cliche' compared to ep 4, and then how k2 had similarities between 1

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

(w00t) :D

 

Np. :D

 

Yeah, KotOR ir full with cliches. But they used them very well

 

Btw, visited Tatooine AGAIN. That is very big cliche

[DarthReliguim]

I would say Atton is more similar to Han than Carth is.

[HK-47_THE_MEATBAG_KILLER]

good point, carth was fanatically loyal, while han was a freelance smuggler and had no loyalties. atton was not loyal either, he even admitted to being a deserter. and the confrontation with darth malak was much like the one on the death star. being captured by the enemy, escaping, and losing a party member in the process. and of course, the shocking revelation by the enemy, with one of your allies knowing about it the whole time. plus, the light side confrontation on the star forge with the main bag guy (malak/sidious) corrupting and tricking the good jedi (bastila/vader) into turning to the dark side, and the hero redeeming them. last thing, the battle of the star forge/death star with the enemy having a superweapon and the outnumbered but heroic republican/rebel fleet triumphing against the odds, with them depending on the small strike team that has infiltrated the enemy.

and just for the record, hk made a much better protocol droid.

[Lilandra]

I would say Atton is more similar to Han than Carth is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Atton had that Han Sola charisma going. Carth had that cry like a baby everytime something didn't go his way syndrome.

[Darth Blivion]

I disagree about the protocol droid. HK 47's humor is dry; 3P0 is created funny. He's like an annoying, light-hearted humor generator. C3P0>HK47 as a protocol droid.

[Sturm]

Well, thanks to Xard ive come up with numerous ideas about how kotor1 was a cliche' compared to ep 4, and then how k2 had similarities between 1

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

(w00t) :D

 

Np. :D

 

Yeah, KotOR ir full with cliches. But they used them very well

 

Btw, visited Tatooine AGAIN. That is very big cliche

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

how is tatooine in kotor1 a cliche? i never noticed anything

 

I would say Atton is more similar to Han than Carth is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

yes i was going to mention how the kotor2 characters where similar to the kotor1 characters, hence linked to the movie series

 

like atton is similar to carth, carth is similar to han solo

[Sturm]

after i think, atton, yes is more like han solo, hmm someone who possibly could replace carth might be portrayed as - maybe wedge antillies? if you dont know who he is i would be more then happy to get some information on him for you

[Sturm]

One thing I wish I could do was have K2's interface in K1... K1 is a deeper game, while K2 improved on K1 in many aspects. I had a nostaglic trip on Dantooine after seeing it in K2... I knew my way around the Matale (Khoonda) grounds and the Enclave grounds, then I almost ended up getting lost when venturing elsewhere from those locations (ie, the Grove and southward). K1's storyline is good minus some of the cliches that come with it (some of the sidequests I've seen are pretty notorious for this).

One example I'll use is (though not really a sidequest):

Replace the Endar Spire with the Tantive IV

Replace Bastila with C-3PO

Replace Taris with Tatooine

Replace the Black Vulkars with Jawas

Replace the Sith Soldiers with Stormtroopers (and while we're at it replace Malak with Vader and Karath with some high ranking Imperial Admiral)

and just continue through the list and you have a hacked up version of ANH

 

K1 felt a lot like K2 in the beginning (compare Trask and Kreia; Taris and Peragus [though the civilization made it a bit more bearable]), and having the stowaway kinda reminded me of Visas (how efficient is the Ebon Hawk's security system?)

 

I still play like there's some sort of influence system in K1 (Influence Gained: Bastila)

 

Of course, some things still don't change. I still dislike Vrook the most of all the Jedi Masters

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

here we go, the roots of this thread

Edited March 31, 2006 by Revan_Returns

[DAWUSS]

One thing I wish I could do was have K2's interface in K1... K1 is a deeper game, while K2 improved on K1 in many aspects. I had a nostaglic trip on Dantooine after seeing it in K2... I knew my way around the Matale (Khoonda) grounds and the Enclave grounds, then I almost ended up getting lost when venturing elsewhere from those locations (ie, the Grove and southward). K1's storyline is good minus some of the cliches that come with it (some of the sidequests I've seen are pretty notorious for this).

One example I'll use is (though not really a sidequest):

Replace the Endar Spire with the Tantive IV

Replace Bastila with C-3PO

Replace Taris with Tatooine

Replace the Black Vulkars with Jawas

Replace the Sith Soldiers with Stormtroopers (and while we're at it replace Malak with Vader and Karath with some high ranking Imperial Admiral)

and just continue through the list and you have a hacked up version of ANH

 

K1 felt a lot like K2 in the beginning (compare Trask and Kreia; Taris and Peragus [though the civilization made it a bit more bearable]), and having the stowaway kinda reminded me of Visas (how efficient is the Ebon Hawk's security system?)

 

I still play like there's some sort of influence system in K1 (Influence Gained: Bastila)

 

Of course, some things still don't change. I still dislike Vrook the most of all the Jedi Masters

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

here we go, the roots of this thread

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

lol

[Xard]

I would say Atton is more similar to Han than Carth is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Atton had that Han Sola charisma going. Carth had that cry like a baby everytime something didn't go his way syndrome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Atton was just Solo-clone so not very good charater IMO.

 

Tatooine cliche? It is BIGGEST cliche of whole SW. Unless ESB it has been in each film, dozens of games and books etc.

 

It is even in Empire at War, C'mon, if there is 40 systems, why in hell one of those would be minor and unimportant Tatooine.

 

Tatooine is cliche.

 

Lol, appereance list from wookiepedia:

* Shadows and Light

* Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

* Episode I Adventures 5: The Ghostling Children

* Star Wars: Battlefront

* Star Wars Republic: Prelude to Rebellion

* Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

* Star Wars: Episode I Racer

* Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace

* Star Wars: Episode I Jedi Power Battles

* Star Wars Republic: Outlander

* Star Wars Republic: Twilight

* Star Wars: Bounty Hunter

* Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones

* Boba Fett: Hunted

* Star Wars Battlefront II

* Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

* Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

* Old Wounds (Non-canonical appearance)

 

* Empire at War

* Star Wars Empire: Darklighter

* Underworld: The Yavin Vassilika

* Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope (First appearance)

* Star Wars: Rogue Squadron

* Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina

* Star Wars 3-D

* Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided

* Marvel Star Wars 31: Return to Tatooine

* Marvel Star Wars 32: The Jawa Express

* Star Wars: Rogue Squadron III: Rebel Strike

* The Star Wars Holiday Special

* Star Wars: Demolition

* Shadows of the Empire

* Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi

* Tales from Jabba's Palace

* The Bounty Hunter Wars

* Marvel Star Wars 81: Jawas of Doom

* X-wing: Rogue Squadron

* Tatooine Ghost

* Darksaber

* Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

* Junior Jedi Knights: Promises

[Sturm]

i have nothing to say, this is the first time so i say to you mr xard... touche'

[Xard]

Ty

[Sturm]

OMFG your not a noob anymore

[Xard]

What the hell that mean? Oh, I'm lvl 2, yippee

 

Sry off-topic

Edited March 31, 2006 by Xard

[Dark_Raven]

On topic shall will journey forth?

[DAWUSS]

The Battle of Endor and the Battle of Rakata Prime

 

Death Star II - Star Forge

Grand Admiral Nial Declann - Bastila Shan

Shield source coming from Endor - Disruptor Field coming from Rakata Prime

Ewoks - Rakata

Lando Calrissian - Carth Onasi

Admiral Ackbar - Admiral Forn Dodonna

Luke Skywalker - Revan

Palpatine - Malak

[Masta Revan]

Personally I don't see how you guys consider it to be a cliche, we all know its star wars and of coures there is going to be a sith empire, a manipulator, a love sceen, a crash landing,swoop racing,ect. And there is obviously going to be everything thats in the star wars universe in this game since it is an rpg and since it says you will experince most of this stuff on the back of the box.

[Sturm]

but as already mentioned it links very closely, its similar to the events that occur in the movie series

[rokor]

okay i think that atton is more like han solo.......i also think that revan is more like anakin....but the other way around instead of being on the light side and goin to the dark side.....he went from the dark side to light.....and i also think that the handmaiden is like padme'......but i think that most of the characters from

KOTOR 2 have their own charecteristics.....or how ever u spell it

[Hekate]

Wasn't the whole point of KotoR the BioWare staff taking the things they liked best from the movies and came up with a game that was similar feeling (an ode to almost i would think)? i read it somewhere, i think on the Obsidian website, can't remember where, that Obsidian did the same thing, and used KotoR as a springboard for KotoR II. Could be wrong... But i think that the KotoRs being cliches is pretty much a given, if ithey were developed and writen from that standpoint.

 

Having said that, i'm not sure i agree entirely with the applying in practice the concept of KotoR being cliched. i guess i should first state i haven't played any other Star Wars titles since i don't like first person shooters, nor do i like hack'n'slash mentality games. Which i knows begs the question of why in the world do i play RPGs at all? but leaving that little logic hole aside... here are some reasons why:

 

Tattooine felt very different to me than "Luke's" Tattooine, and moreso than "Anakin's" Tattooine. Sure, its still Tattooine, but it had an entirely different atmosphere about it. In essence it was still controlled by "undesireables" (Czerka rather than Hutts) but it felt more like a run down mining town built on the ruins of previous commercial settlements than a bustling and affluent enough city.

 

I'll shorten this with making statements more broad in their scope. That eventhough there are repetitions of various themes from various different sources; i found alot of similarities to Baldur's Gate Shadows of Amn for instance, even down to the music of Manaan; they made it unique enough to that time frame and those people that it felt familiar yet also different and new. I kinda thought it was neat how they put intersting spins on revisited material. That goes for the situations as well as places. Yeah, the Star Forge is that era's Death Star, as i think it was meant to be. I also think the point of history repeating itself, especially when dealing with rather unchanging codes of ethics and in philosophies (be they Sith or Jedi) eventhough the people and power levels may change, the cosmic drama they enact and re-enact does not. And that speaks to a fundamental core of humanity (Jawadom? Ithorianess? and so on)

 

A few points on character cliche; i really don't see how Bastila is like C3-P0, at all. Not only in the human vs. droid respect, rather in the personality, affect as a character in the work, how she interacts with Revan, nor any other ways. I'd like to hear your ideas on where the similarity lies.

 

Next, is Carth. I know a lot of people don't like him and feel he is whiny (which i happen to really strongly disagree with :ph34r: ), but i can't see him as a Han Solo type. Nor do i see how he is a Lando. Carth, other than being messed-up by his past and focusing too intently for his own good on getting revenge, is quite certain of who he is, where his loyalties and morals lie, and what paths he is and is not willing to walk. Both Han and Lando needed a push-comes-to-shove event for them both to be able to make those decissions. Han was actually changing as a person because of his hooking up with Luke and Leia. Lando had to have his ethics line pushed quite far (not to mention being threatened by Darth Vader himself) in order for him to find where he draws his line in the sand. Carth was pretty much Carth through it all with his own moral fibre quite unambiguous, and he didn't change who he is , not even when everything went to hell in a handbasket (ie Revan LS female who kept up her conversations with him amicably enough to reach the confessing his love point and then *bam*! She turns dark side. But he still did the Carth thing to do and did not betray the Republic remaining true to himself and attempt to save Revan from herself)

 

Yeah, there is the 2 droids cliche, but that was effectively devastated with T3-M4 not having any personality. HK-47 ain't anything like C3-P0. In KotoR II where T3 raz-es Atton, that is much more R2-D2ish. But i can't find the C3-P0 counterpart.

 

Oh, and the point of Revan being like Anakin, i'm not sure where i lie with that one. I can see it a bit, but i think the difference between them, assuming again Kreia was being honest (very clever that one giving ambiguous answers such as Exile: "do you know so-and-so?" to which Kreia answers: "not a one" Hee, hee, hee ) of Revan actively making the choice to sell her/his soul in order to save the galaxy is quite different from Anakin's fall because of his own shortcomings.

 

'nuff said

[Blank]

It makes business sense to stick with what is "tried and true".

 

Also, having a similar but pretty modified story of K1 for K2 was fine with me; I very much enjoyed the game regardless of cliche's.

 

Of course, if the same story is used as a basis excessively and repetatively, then there would be a problem, but for a sequel, the story satisfies.