Feargus video interview

[Jediphile]

Who were this character's parents? Where did he/she grow up? Why did he become a paladin (or whatever class)? Who were his/her friends during the various parts of his life? What are the long-term goals of the character?

 

Let's answer said questions for Revan/Exile

 

Parents: unknown/unknown

Grow up: unknown/said ingame but forgot. Could be implentation of Jedi Council

Why a Jedi?: unknown/unknown

Friends?: unknown/Malak

long-term goals: unknown/unknown (end dependant)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

We do know that Revan's mother is dead - Revan tells Bastila's mother so. He also tells Bastila that he comes from Deralia.

 

And how can you say the Exile has no known friends, when we know that most of them probably died on Malachor V and that he has a special friendship with Bao-Dur due to their common experiences there.

 

As for long-term goals, isn't Revan's long-term goals at the very heart of K2? Exile's is to find out about the force bond with Kreia and what to do about it. Once he figures it out, the endgame decides what he wants to do about it. His motives are at the core of the game, whereas we really don't have to care about what or why the PC of Diablo 2 wants to do - it simply doesn't matter...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

As for long-term goals, isn't Revan's long-term goals at the very heart of K2? Exile's is to find out about the force bond with Kreia and what to do about it. Once he figures it out, the endgame decides what he wants to do about it. His motives are at the core of the game, whereas we really don't have to care about what or why the PC of Diablo 2 wants to do - it simply doesn't matter...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You never played PnP did you ?

[BattleCookiee]

Have I claimed that? I've said that *I* don't think of Diablo 2 (or even Diablo 1) as an RPG and I've given a link.

 

And the link says Diablo IS a RPG. ShadowPaladin already mentioned all the details around that...

 

Discuss the link all you like, just don't slam me for it if you disagree.

 

Besides your definition doesn't fit the link and if it does the link no longer defines RPG's?

 

And don't presume to tell me what I can and cannot think of Diablo 2. I'll make up my own mind on that, if you don't mind, and even if you do...

 

Well, you try the same with Feargus; so why can you do so with a Dev. but can't I try with you?

 

Ah, now I know you're wrong, because I'm part of "everybody else", and I don't know Deus Ex and so couldn't say. And besides, I really wouldn't care...

 

Everybody else says Diablo is a RPG; making you NOT "everybody else"

 

I guess I could roll my eyes too, but then I don't have the time, if I had to do justice to just how much I'm doing in in RL now... When you're done, maybe you should see my other reply, before you continue. Then again, nothing ruins a good discussion as much as someone who knows what he's talking about, so maybe not...

 

And still enough time to defend Diablo2's RPG status from me and ShadowPaladin. Oops, untill now... And I already saw your other reply and replied to it... have fun replying on it again; if you haven't done already

 

Yes, of course... My bad for trying to say that consistent role-playing should be significant to the role-playing experience... 

 

And in exactly WHAT RPG does that do that? And what does it have to do with the discussion at hand? Do you claim Diablo2 is no RPG because it is consistant (in keeping killing... no stopping, like in your example)?

[Jediphile]

 

Who do I assume the role of a character that I know nothing about? I may know a little about what powers the sorceress has or can get or what the paladin's principles are, but that's not much basis on which to "assume the role of a character". Who were this character's parents? Where did he/she grow up? Why did he become a paladin (or whatever class)? Who were his/her friends during the various parts of his life? What are the long-term goals of the character?

 

There are no answers to those questions in a game like Diablo 2, and so the characters have no substance - they are nothing more than devices or tools by which the player interacts with the game. And either their motives and perceptions don't matter in the plot at all or else, worse, they don't even have any.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There are no answers to questions like that in PnP either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There are unless you're playing total hack'n slash/dungeon crawl, which is closer to board games like HeroQuest than to RPGs.

 

Part of your "roleplaying" task is to answer those questions and thus determine a personality for the character before you start the game. This personality then becomes the measure by which a character will act.

 

Usual example - A character who's parents were killed by orcs may kill every orc they see. Even those not showing hostile intent.

 

So as there are no answers to those questions in PnP either, thats hardly a reason to disqualify Diablo II.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're missing my point. Is the PC a character or a vehicle? It's a character in KotOR, Fallout, and a host of other games. It's a vehicle in Diablo 2, built up over time much as you do a mech in MechWarrior or similar - there is no dialogue and no building of actual character.

 

And you will find what you need in the Diablo II character section with regards to starting points for character histories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Those are one page "excuses" for each character class. They don't exactly cover the complexity of an individual. I simply cannot see Diablo 2 PCs as actual characters - they are just tools/weapons that I fight the game's baddies with and nothing more. They have no character depth of any sort.

[BattleCookiee]

We do know that Revan's mother is dead - Revan tells Bastila's mother so. He also tells Bastila that he comes from Deralia.

 

Planet confirmed. Mother dead; ok... but we still don't know WHO she is then, do we?

 

And how can you say the Exile has no known friends, when we know that most of them probably died on Malachor V and that he has a special friendship with Bao-Dur due to their common experiences there.

 

They NEVER had a good relationship. He being a mechanic and Exile a General and all. They even said so themselves during their meeting on Telos

 

As for long-term goals, isn't Revan's long-term goals at the very heart of K2? Exile's is to find out about the force bond with Kreia and what to do about it. Once he figures it out, the endgame decides what he wants to do about it. His motives are at the core of the game, whereas we really don't have to care about what or why the PC of Diablo 2 wants to do - it simply doesn't matter...

 

But... Kotor2 is Kotor2. That "goal" was NOT set in Kotor and thus cannot be used to defined the making of Kotor's RPG-status...

And is the Exile's path really that. I thought it was finding the 4 masters for revange/explenation...?

[Jediphile]

As for long-term goals, isn't Revan's long-term goals at the very heart of K2? Exile's is to find out about the force bond with Kreia and what to do about it. Once he figures it out, the endgame decides what he wants to do about it. His motives are at the core of the game, whereas we really don't have to care about what or why the PC of Diablo 2 wants to do - it simply doesn't matter...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You never played PnP did you ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, I did. I've been a GM for over a decade and a half and continue to be.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

There are unless you're playing total hack'n slash/dungeon crawl, which is closer to board games like HeroQuest than to RPGs.

 

You're missing my point. Is the PC a character or a vehicle? It's a character in KotOR, Fallout, and a host of other games. It's a vehicle in Diablo 2, built up over time much as you do a mech in MechWarrior or similar - there is no dialogue and no building of actual character.

 

Those are one page "excuses" for each character class. They don't exactly cover the complexity of an individual. I simply cannot see Diablo 2 PCs as actual characters - they are just tools/weapons that I fight the game's baddies with and nothing more. They have no character depth of any sort.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But those are provided by the player IE You. Not by the DM , only in the case of beginers have I seen a DM dictate a characters background.

 

I think your missing the point here. Although if you dont have a PnP experience, it's pretty understandable. I can take a Diablo II character, give it a history and purpose, practically without thinking about it (years of PnP gaming will do that for you). Where as it's clear that you prefer that the designers do the work for you and you just click the most appealing reply to drive the story along.

 

No they are springboards for your imagination to work off in creating a character. Thats about the same sort of detail you get in a PnP game as well. If the character has no depth, it's because you havnt given them any.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Yes, I did. I've been a GM for over a decade and a half and continue to be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Seriously ?

And do you tell your players what their character backgrounds are before you start a game ?

[Diamond]

Who're the Vault Dweller's parents?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The point is that you can answer most of those questions, and the rest are fairly obvious. We may not know the names of the Vault Dweller's parents, but we know enough about his/her background to presume the rest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about Icewind Dale then?

[Jediphile]

Besides your definition doesn't fit the link and if it does the link no longer defines RPG's?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Already answered that.

 

And don't presume to tell me what I can and cannot think of Diablo 2. I'll make up my own mind on that, if you don't mind, and even if you do...

 

Well, you try the same with Feargus; so why can you do so with a Dev. but can't I try with you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is a difference between saying you disagree with someone and trying to prove them wrong or even telling them that they cannot have the opinion they have. I said I disagreed with Feargus and why. You told me my opinion was invalid and then tried to prove that I was wrong. That's always a mistake, because a person's perception of things is always indisputable. I don't actually have to put "I think" or similar together with every statement I write, but I actually did so in this case. The only thing you can take exception with is dictionary.com's defintion of an RPG, which I never said was mine anyway.

 

Ah, now I know you're wrong, because I'm part of "everybody else", and I don't know Deus Ex and so couldn't say. And besides, I really wouldn't care...

 

Everybody else says Diablo is a RPG; making you NOT "everybody else"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Except that was in a different context.

 

I guess I could roll my eyes too, but then I don't have the time, if I had to do justice to just how much I'm doing in in RL now... When you're done, maybe you should see my other reply, before you continue. Then again, nothing ruins a good discussion as much as someone who knows what he's talking about, so maybe not...

 

And still enough time to defend Diablo2's RPG status from me and ShadowPaladin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Never defended it's RPG status. Why would I, when I don't consider it to be one?

 

Yes, of course... My bad for trying to say that consistent role-playing should be significant to the role-playing experience... 

 

And in exactly WHAT RPG does that do that? And what does it have to do with the discussion at hand? Do you claim Diablo2 is no RPG because it is consistant (in keeping killing... no stopping, like in your example)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, I'm saying that I don't consider it to be one, because there is no consistent RPG choices involved - you follow one rigidly fixed and linear plot with no deviation possible. You cannot turn on Tyriel and side with Diablo and his minions, nor can you try to redeem any of the baddies along the way. It's all predetermined and fixed with no possibility of choice, and there is no depth or even existence of your character beyond the skills and stats you build. Where are the motives and ambitions of the character you are supposed to play? There are none. They do not exist.

Edited February 26, 2006 by Jediphile

[Nartwak]

The point is that you can answer most of those questions, and the rest are fairly obvious. We may not know the names of the Vault Dweller's parents, but we know enough about his/her background to presume the rest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What background are you speaking of? In the Vault Dweller's case the only information offered is that the character was born in Vault 13, and that up until the start of the game lived therein. I mean to say, there's no given rationale why my character would be leaving the Vault at sixteen rather than twenty six or why they have more skill with small guns than with first aid. A vicious loner will begin the game the same as a gregarious charmer.

[Jediphile]

Yes, I did. I've been a GM for over a decade and a half and continue to be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Seriously ?

And do you tell your players what their character backgrounds are before you start a game ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No. I get them to make it up. Once they do, I work it into the ongoing campaign.

[Jediphile]

Who're the Vault Dweller's parents?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The point is that you can answer most of those questions, and the rest are fairly obvious. We may not know the names of the Vault Dweller's parents, but we know enough about his/her background to presume the rest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about Icewind Dale then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Never played Icewind Dale, so I really can't say.

 

Besides, I... dislike Forgotten Realms...

[Jediphile]

The point is that you can answer most of those questions, and the rest are fairly obvious. We may not know the names of the Vault Dweller's parents, but we know enough about his/her background to presume the rest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What background are you speaking of? In the Vault Dweller's case the only information offered is that the character was born in Vault 13, and that up until the start of the game lived therein. I mean to say, there's no given rationale why my character would be leaving the Vault at sixteen rather than twenty six or why they have more skill with small guns than with first aid. A vicious loner will begin the game the same as a gregarious charmer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The point is, you still have a pretty good idea of what the character is feeling when he (or she) is unceremoniously is thrown out of the vault to solve all the problems for everybody. You have motive and ambitions, but you also have a good idea of what you think of the overseer and other people in the vault.

[BattleCookiee]

There is a difference between saying you disagree with someone and trying to prove them wrong or even telling them that they cannot have the opinion they have. I said I disagreed with Feargus and why. You told me my opinion was invalid and then tried to prove that I was wrong. That's always a mistake, because a person's perception of things is always indisputable. I don't actually have to put "I think" or similar together with every statement I write, but I actually did so in this case. The only thing you can take exception with is dictionary.com's defintion of an RPG, which I never said was mine anyway.

 

Besides the definition of RPG isn't really open for "personal opinion". Ofcourse if you like or not like a game is personal, but the genre is not. You cannot be right in ANY way if you think or in your opinion C&C is a TBS or RPG or Adventure or FPS. And I don't try to "make you see Diablo 2" I am just "disagreeing with you" and giving reasons why I and many other disagree with your opinion...

 

Never defended it's RPG status. Why would I, when I don't consider it to be one? 

 

Defend RPG status as in Defend it from gaining RPG-status...

 

No, I'm saying that I don't consider it to be one, because there is no consistent RPG choices involved - you follow one rigidly fixed and linear plot with no deviation possible. You cannot turn on Tyriel and side with Diablo and his minions, nor can you try to redeem any of the baddies along the way. It's all predetermined and fixed with no possibility of choice, and there is no depth or even existence of your character beyond the skills and stats you build. Where are the motives and ambitions of the character you are supposed to play? There are none. They do not exist.

 

And in exactly what Video Game RPG CAN you do that? Can you side with Malak? NO. Can you side with Kreia, Nihilus and Sion? NO (not in the way the game was shipped atleast). Can you side with Sarevok? NO. Can you side with TTO? No (ok, you could merge, but that ain't joining like helping him in his fight)...

You base your "Diablo 2 is no RPG" on stuff you don't even find in what you think are RPG's... and I can tell you it doesn't help in convincing others...

[Jediphile]

But those are provided by the player IE You. Not by the DM , only in the case of beginers have I seen a DM dictate a characters background.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's not a matter of who dicates the background as much as whether that background has any significance in the game at all. I dare say people can ignore the Diablo class descriptions without losing any context in the game.

 

In KotOR I may not know much about the characters when I begin, but I'm interested. I found it really annoying that I knew so little about the Exile's past, when I began K2 - made it very difficult to understand the character.

 

In BG, my character grew up in Candlekeep, and Imoen is an old friend.

 

In Diablo I don't know and it doesn't even matter.

 

I think your missing the point here. Although if you dont have a PnP experience, it's pretty understandable. I can take a Diablo II character, give it a history and purpose, practically without thinking about it (years of PnP gaming will do that for you). Where as it's clear that you prefer that the designers do the work for you and you just click the most appealing reply to drive the story along.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You never click any answers in Diablo, and even if you did, they wouldn't matter in the plot. You can define your character background as you want, yes, but it hardly matters. It has no significance to the game at all.

 

No they are springboards for your imagination to work off in creating a character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But what does it matter if that springboard doesn't lead you anywhere? You might just as well not bother in the first place.

 

Thats about the same sort of detail you get in a PnP game as well. If the character has no depth, it's because you havnt given them any.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Except in a PnP game, the depth I give the character will have significance, since it will define how I play the character, what his choices will be, what he will say to people, etc. Over time the GM will also make this significant, since he will know how my character is likely to react and present challenges on that basis.

 

In Diablo, the imagined background is just pure make believe, because it'll never matter...

[BattleCookiee]

Except in a PnP game, the depth I give the character will have significance, since it will define how I play the character, what his choices will be, what he will say to people, etc. Over time the GM will also make this significant, since he will know how my character is likely to react and present challenges on that basis.

 

And have you EVER seen this in a computer RPG. Even if on completely unknown way the devs do know the background of 6 billion of world-citizens and their imagination of their perfect character(s?) could they possibly be able to use the 99x10^9999999999 lines needed that you could respond to on a NPC with no story importance whatsoever?

 

You do have to see that Videogame RPG's can NEVER make an experience as a PnP just for the fact the dev cannot possibly make the game perfectly suitable for the player, while a PnP GM can.

Editing the way for a player in a PnP enviroment is easy. In a Computerworld it has to be seperately made though... besides the already implented path. Would be fun to see though.

Kotor2 Expension pack: Jediphile's Path

Kotor2 Expension pack: BattleWookiee's path

Kotor2 Expension pack: ShadowPaladin V1.0's path

Etc.

Wow, that would be SO managable

 

So expecting such things to (ever) be in RPG's is just foolish...

Edited February 26, 2006 by BattleCookiee

[Jediphile]

There is a difference between saying you disagree with someone and trying to prove them wrong or even telling them that they cannot have the opinion they have. I said I disagreed with Feargus and why. You told me my opinion was invalid and then tried to prove that I was wrong. That's always a mistake, because a person's perception of things is always indisputable. I don't actually have to put "I think" or similar together with every statement I write, but I actually did so in this case. The only thing you can take exception with is dictionary.com's defintion of an RPG, which I never said was mine anyway.

 

Besides the definition of RPG isn't really open for "personal opinion". Ofcourse if you like or not like a game is personal, but the genre is not. You cannot be right in ANY way if you think or in your opinion C&C is a TBS or RPG or Adventure or FPS. And I don't try to "make you see Diablo 2" I am just "disagreeing with you" and giving reasons why I and many other disagree with your opinion...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ahem...

 

RPG means you must role-play, as in putting yourself in the role of another (fictional) character and then make decisions on the basis of that character's perceptions and opinions.

 

Lolz

Doom = RPG

Painkiller = RPG

Serious Sam = RPG

Half-Life = RPG

Monkey Island = RPG

Grim Fandango = RPG

Gabriel Knight = RPG

GTA San Andreas = RPG

GTA Vice City = RPG

Age of Empires = RPG

Civilization = RPG

Republic = RPG

The Sims = RPG

Boiling Point = RPG

Empire at War = RPG

Black & White = RPG

Populous = RPG

 

Etc. etc. etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Never defended it's RPG status. Why would I, when I don't consider it to be one? 

 

Defend RPG status as in Defend it from gaining RPG-status...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't be silly - clearly I don't have the authority to assign RPG status to the game or not. I can only say what I think of it, and that's what I did.

 

No, I'm saying that I don't consider it to be one, because there is no consistent RPG choices involved - you follow one rigidly fixed and linear plot with no deviation possible. You cannot turn on Tyriel and side with Diablo and his minions, nor can you try to redeem any of the baddies along the way. It's all predetermined and fixed with no possibility of choice, and there is no depth or even existence of your character beyond the skills and stats you build. Where are the motives and ambitions of the character you are supposed to play? There are none. They do not exist.

 

And in exactly what Video Game RPG CAN you do that? Can you side with Malak? NO. Can you side with Kreia, Nihilus and Sion? NO (not in the way the game was shipped atleast). Can you side with Sarevok? NO. Can you side with TTO? No (ok, you could merge, but that ain't joining like helping him in his fight)...

You base your "Diablo 2 is no RPG" on stuff you don't even find in what you think are RPG's... and I can tell you it doesn't help in convincing others...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The option to become Nihilus' apprentice was cut from K2, but it was considered. And Kreia doesn't want you to submit to her - she wants to force you to acknowledge the truth of the force and what your force wound means. Whether you handle that in a LS or DS manner is up to you.

 

Of course you don't side with Malak - he usurped *your* power and *your* rightful throne. So obviously you want to either cast out the usurper (DS) or else end the tyranny of the oppressor (LS)...

 

Oh, wait... Those are not choices, right?

[Jediphile]

Except in a PnP game, the depth I give the character will have significance, since it will define how I play the character, what his choices will be, what he will say to people, etc. Over time the GM will also make this significant, since he will know how my character is likely to react and present challenges on that basis.

 

And have you EVER seen this in a computer RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Does Revan's background have relevance in K1 or the Exile's in K2? "

[BattleCookiee]

Ahem...

 

RPG means you must role-play, as in putting yourself in the role of another (fictional) character and then make decisions on the basis of that character's perceptions and opinions.

 

Lolz

Doom = RPG

Painkiller = RPG

Serious Sam = RPG

Half-Life = RPG

Monkey Island = RPG

Grim Fandango = RPG

Gabriel Knight = RPG

GTA San Andreas = RPG

GTA Vice City = RPG

Age of Empires = RPG

Civilization = RPG

Republic = RPG

The Sims = RPG

Boiling Point = RPG

Empire at War = RPG

Black & White = RPG

Populous = RPG

 

Etc. etc. etc.

 

Lol. Loads of broken Sarcasm detectors this week. FAR above avarage...

 

Don't be silly - clearly I don't have the authority to assign RPG status to the game or not. I can only say what I think of it, and that's what I did.

 

Indeed. But you tried so...

"What you think of it"; Hmmmm... does that includes insulting Feargus Urquharts knowledge of RPG's

 

The option to become Nihilus' apprentice was cut from K2, but it was considered.

 

Congrats. That is why I said in "the current state" as I know that

 

And Kreia doesn't want you to submit to her - she wants to force you to acknowledge the truth of the force and what your force wound means. Whether you handle that in a LS or DS manner is up to you.

 

 

Yah for the amount of choices and the consequences from these actions... You can kill her by just standing there or by pushing her off the cliff! Yah

 

 

Of course you don't side with Malak - he usurped *your* power and *your* rightful throne. So obviously you want to either cast out the usurper (DS) or else end the tyranny of the oppressor (LS)...

 

And now give us a good reason to side with Diablo then?

 

Oh, wait... Those are not choices, right? 

 

Nope, they are choices (damn myself for misreading this before). Kreia's choice for example is like you describe Diablo; Do I wan't to kill her with A, B or C?

 

EDIT: Hate Quoting

Edited February 26, 2006 by BattleCookiee

[BattleCookiee]

Except in a PnP game, the depth I give the character will have significance, since it will define how I play the character, what his choices will be, what he will say to people, etc. Over time the GM will also make this significant, since he will know how my character is likely to react and present challenges on that basis.

 

And have you EVER seen this in a computer RPG.

 

Does Revan's background have relevance in K1 or the Exile's in K2? "

 

Yup. But the choices do not. You can declare love to Atris and she still wish to kill you. You can hear the Jedi Masters say they disagree with the exile and they still turn against you on Dantooine. If you play DS and gained Mastery... you can still go goodie-goodie and gain LS Mastery... "

Edited February 26, 2006 by BattleCookiee

[Jediphile]

Ahem...

 

RPG means you must role-play, as in putting yourself in the role of another (fictional) character and then make decisions on the basis of that character's perceptions and opinions.

 

Lolz

Doom = RPG

Painkiller = RPG

Serious Sam = RPG

Half-Life = RPG

Monkey Island = RPG

Grim Fandango = RPG

Gabriel Knight = RPG

GTA San Andreas = RPG

GTA Vice City = RPG

Age of Empires = RPG

Civilization = RPG

Republic = RPG

The Sims = RPG

Boiling Point = RPG

Empire at War = RPG

Black & White = RPG

Populous = RPG

 

Etc. etc. etc.

 

Lol. Loads of broken Sarcasm detectors this week. FAR above avarage...

 

Don't be silly - clearly I don't have the authority to assign RPG status to the game or not. I can only say what I think of it, and that's what I did.

 

Indeed. But you tried so...

"What you think of it"; Hmmmm... does that includes insulting Feargus Urquharts knowledge of RPG's

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I just love the fact that you make fun at me for not liking your sarcasm and then immediately proceed to slam me for making a far less ironic comment...

 

Tell you what, if Feargus tells me he was offended, then I'll accept that I went too far and apologize to him.

 

But somehow I think he has a better sense of humor than you do. You really should run down to the shop and get your sense of humor replaced - it is in sore need. And you better do it before criticising others for making ironic comments while making sarcastic comments yourself and thinking that's okay gets you into real trouble. Then again, I guess your position is twice as good as a straight standard... "

 

 

And now give us a good reason to side with Diablo then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I stand corrected - making deals with devils and demons is totally unheard of, of course... "

 

Oh, wait... Those are not choices, right? 

 

Indeed they are. Kreia's choice for example is like you describe Diablo; Do I wan't to kill her with A, B or C?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's a circular argument and you know it, since Kreia won't let you make another choice- you already made your DS/LS choice at that point in the game.

 

Your argument here is deliberately sophistry as far as I can tell.

[Gabrielle]

WTF? Three pages new since I last saw this?

[Jediphile]

Yup. But the choices do not. You can declare love to Atris and she still wish to kill you. You can hear the Jedi Masters say they disagree with the exile and they still turn against you on Dantooine. If you play DS and gained Mastery... you can still go goodie-goodie and gain LS Mastery...  "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Did the reasons for their actions make sense? Yup.

 

And there are differences in the outcome.

 

The masters don't turn on my on Dantooine if I'm truly DS, since I've already killed them all.

 

Atris may want to kill me, but she's fallen to the dark side. I can *choose* whether to kill her or not (same thing for Mira fighting Hanharr on Malachor V btw).

 

Malachor V is destroyed or continues to exist depending on my choice. But then I guess the death of an entire planet doesn't count as a genuine choice...

[Sargallath Abraxium]

...dear Gods; much more slobberin' o'er Unca Feargie an' he's'll be bound ta git a swelled head on 'im like Gaider's, an' noone 'ere wants that, does they???...next, we's'll all 'ave ta refer ta any Obsidz successes as "Feargie-esque" (anyone around on the BIOweenian Boards fer the whole Gaideresque bs knows what I's means)...too much arse-kissin' be a bad thing, kiddies...

 

 

...oh, an DIA-blows certainly ain't no RPG...PERIOD...Feargie had a bit too much o' the peace pipe in that interview, methinks... :D

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

Edited February 26, 2006 by Sargallath Abraxium