KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Dyan]

Playing a youngling sounds interesting. The problem is that the game would inevitably fall under the "for kids" label for sure.

 

A DS youngling...  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh please can I play a whiney 8 year old "

 

Seriously though. You can have a fable style prologue if you want to start the character at that age. But still be an "adult" when the game proper starts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*starts twitching* And I'm quite sure that he shall be crying out for Padam- Bastila too. After winning a swoop race. And hanging around with gunga- Twi'lek. And he won't grow up to be Darth Vad- whoever. *twitch twitch*

 

Seriously, I wouldn't want to play anyone too young unless they did a Fable Style Age thing, as you others have mentioned. Oh I see it now. "Momm- Master Bastila! Kreia's Force Ghost won't leave me alone! Wah!" "

 

Okay, no problems then. Sorry about the anger in my reply too. I place your vote in number 9.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

K. Glad everything's sorted out.

 

 

I still want to see deflect force lightning in K3, damnit!

Edited March 4, 2006 by Dyan

[banerator]

so the idea of having a jedi from way back appeals to some people then but now that u actually put the years down it seems it may be a bit far back ummm and the younglin idea would be irritating running around as a brat would anoy me

 

my favorite idea out of the ones i put down was to play a bit of the story have a lapse in time thinking uve defeated someone go and get a padawan and then set off on a fresh mission

 

or maybe just stopping at a temple for a few days to grab a fresh padawan as your time comes round but make the padawan an anomally someone they have trained and for some reason is older than the rest at about 18 or 20

 

then u can guide him to the light or drag him into the dark

 

although meeting the original sith is still kool

 

creating the sith empire.

[Jediphile]

Playing a youngling sounds interesting. The problem is that the game would inevitably fall under the "for kids" label for sure.

 

A DS youngling...  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh please can I play a whiney 8 year old "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

:D

[Grand Lord Revan]

What about a Jedi or soldier etc. who was blown out into the galaxy during the battle at the star forge and later saved by being picked up by a pirate/ smuggler ship or similar. Later s/he will be found force sensitive and the story will continue....

 

But I still believe we need Revan and the exile to face the true Sith found to be in the unknown region that is the story KI + II is all about. Everything else is nonsense.

Edited March 4, 2006 by Grand Lord Revan

[Jediphile]

What about a Jedi or soldier etc.  who was blown out into the galaxy during the battle at the star forge and later saved by being picked up by a pirate/ smuggler ship or similar. Later s/he will be found force sensitive and the story will continue....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

At the risk of sounding like a broken record (though some might say that we have long since passed that point...), I'll just say again that I'll be opposed to and rather annoyed by playing yet another amnesic jedi or any other form of jedi who somehow lost his power...

 

But I still believe we need Revan and the exile to face the true Sith found to be in the unknown region that is the story KI + II is all about. Everything else is nonsense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There we agree. The way KotOR2 ended there is no doubt. We need closure to Revan's story. We need closure to Exile's story. Whatever else happens in KotOR3, the fates of those characters *must* be dealt with (and not "dealt with" in the sense of killing them off during the opening text crawl).

 

EDIT: Edited a typo in the parentheses that gave the opposite of what I meant, which led to confusion in the next post. My apologies.

Edited March 4, 2006 by Jediphile

[Grand Lord Revan]

There we agree. The way KotOR2 ended there is no doubt. We need closure to Revan's story. We need closure to Exile's story. Whatever else happens in KotOR3, the fates of those characters *must* be dealt with (and in "dealth with" in the sense of killing them off during the opening text crawl).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yep, story needs closure to both histories. But I don't agree with the killing them off during the opening text crawl.

 

I didn't mean that the PC should have amnesia again. S/he could be a non-Jedi and later become a Jedi. S/he is just force sensitive at that time. I am also fed up with the amnesia solution.

[Dyan]

Of course... there is another amnesia solution - the players could beat themselves senseless and forget about K1&2 in preperation for K3. That way we wouldn't remember anything... "

 

 

Actually, back on topic, I rather like the idea of being present at the Star Forge's destruction. Hmm... Play as a force sensative Black Rakanta- damnit, I can never spell those things right. You know, from that planet before. One of the "Builders". :D

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

There is closure. They are off fighting the Sith somewhere.

 

As long as the new story focuses on something else then they can stay out there.

 

If you spend KOTOR III tying up all the loose ends, then thats time your taking away from KOTOR III in other areas.

[Jediphile]

I didn't mean that the PC should have amnesia again. S/he could be a non-Jedi and later become a Jedi. S/he is just force sensitive at that time. I am also fed up with the amnesia solution.

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The problem with that is how you'll establish that when even becoming a jedi padawan is the result of hard training and arduous study over years and years. In K1 they circumvented it by having the player be Revan, who knew it by heart and so seemed to grasp it in weeks. They did a similar thing in K2, because the Exile obviously already had all the training and study, but had merely "lost" his connection to the force.

 

How can you do the same for a new character without suggesting that he is more powerful than Revan, who is after all considered the greatest jedi of his time.

 

Even Luke had to spend a lot of time in training under Yoda before he had even the pitiful abilities he used in his fight against Vader on Bespin. And he wasn't even a newcomer to the Force, having been taught the basics by Obi-Wan three years before. Besides, he too was one - if not the - strongest jedi of his age.

[Jediphile]

There is closure. They are off fighting the Sith somewhere.

 

As long as the new story focuses on something else then they can stay out there.

 

If you spend KOTOR III tying up all the loose ends, then thats time your taking away from KOTOR III in other areas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What's the point of building to a great climax over the course of an entire game (KotOR2) if you're just going to abandon the story?!?

[Plano Skywalker]

nothing really wrong with a Fable-like prologue but I would prefer just having a number of backstories to choose from via in-game dialogue.

 

"rapid aging" is better suited to open-ended RPGs, IMO.

[Plano Skywalker]

depending on how "epic" the story is, there is really no reason the PC has to be a formal member of the Jedi Order.

 

I like the idea of having a backstory option in which I say I was trained as a Youngling and am now on some sort of sabbatical. That is the only backstory that allows me to formally join the Jedi Order. Other backstories allow for other methods of Force training (including Sith and other factions).

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

What's the point of building to a great climax over the course of an entire game (KotOR2) if you're just going to abandon the story?!? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because you then get to start over without anyone elses baggage. If Revan or the Exile are a part of the story , then it's very difficult to stop them overshadowing the current protagonist, especially if said protagonist is a just a regular guy.

 

KOTOR has entered what I call Dragon Ball Z syndrome. Revan was powerful by d20 standards. The Exile and his or her companions were beyond the defintion of D20. Ergo if you are intent on climbing the same ladder, the third protagonist will have to be more powerful again. Since you dont want to arrive only to be completely outclassed by two NPC's. Especially if you don't have a bloody clue who they are having never played the previous KOTOR games.

[Plano Skywalker]

I agree. There is nothing wrong per se with playing the same protagonist over an entire trilogy of games but the games have to be paced for it.

 

Without resorting to some really cheap trick, Revan and the Exile are absolutely unplayable under d20.

 

(I do, however, think it is possible for K3 to "wrap up" this story arch as though it had been planned as a proper trilogy...it would just take some really good writing)

Edited March 4, 2006 by Plano Skywalker

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I agree.  There is nothing wrong per se with playing the same protagonist over an entire trilogy of games but the games have to be paced for it.

 

Without resorting to some really cheap trick, Revan and the Exile are absolutely unplayable under d20.

 

(I do, however, think it is possible for K3 to "wrap up" this story arch as though it had been planned as a proper trilogy...it would just take some really good writing)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well the last thing you need is yet another jedi demi god running around the place.

[Jediphile]

What's the point of building to a great climax over the course of an entire game (KotOR2) if you're just going to abandon the story?!? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because you then get to start over without anyone elses baggage. If Revan or the Exile are a part of the story , then it's very difficult to stop them overshadowing the current protagonist, especially if said protagonist is a just a regular guy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why is an existing story a problem to overcome? I know the Trek-people thought so too, but I don't see why. On the contrary, there are lots of shows and stories where the writers realise that rich background is a wonderful tapestry. Established history is only a problem if you insist on seeing it as such. Sure, you have abide by the established story, but you can get as much inspiration from that (if not more) as you writing from a completely blank slate. I would say that any claim to the contrary is just lazy or misunderstood writing - not often do we see writers complaining over this then doing completely original works...

 

KOTOR has entered what I call Dragon Ball Z syndrome. Revan was powerful by d20 standards. The Exile and his or her companions were beyond the defintion of D20. Ergo if you are intent on climbing the same ladder, the third protagonist will have to be more powerful again. Since you dont want to arrive only to be completely outclassed by two NPC's. Especially if you don't have a bloody clue who they are having never played the previous KOTOR games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why must the power levels rise for each game? There is nothing wrong with dropping the standard a little, as far as I'm concerned - every pc we play in these games does not have to a jedi-killing-machine or a force god. As long as the narrative is compelling and deep, I really couldn't care less about all the powergaming.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Why must the power levels rise for each game? There is nothing wrong with dropping the standard a little, as far as I'm concerned - every pc we play in these games does not have to a jedi-killing-machine or a force god. As long as the narrative is compelling and deep, I really couldn't care less about all the powergaming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats generally the way you add additional content.

 

Some people like to level. I've never reached the level cap in KOTOR but some people will sit there and level to the maximum.

 

The point I was making about KOTOR III though is you have to be a Jedi killing machine, or a force god. Because that is what the previous two characters have been. And you have to be on at least an equal footing or the protagonist is a bit pointless.

 

So barring more stupid memory wipes and coming across low level Revan and Exiles. Your pretty much stuck with what sort of protagonist you need if tthe two previous ones are to play a major part in the game.

 

Thats why they are better off either dead. Or out of the way doing something beyond everyone elses comprehension.

 

Personally I'd rather them dead than warped into something they were not in my game.

[mr insomniac]

Maybe they shouldn't have a very big role in the story until the very end.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Maybe they shouldn't have a very big role in the story until the very end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But even if that is the case you still need a protagonist that is their equal or better.If they are not going to be in the game in that sense. Well you havnt really lost anything by killing them and you cleared up a mess of problems.

[mr insomniac]

Well, by the end of the game the protagonist would be their equal (I would think). Obsidian could have killed Revan off in TSL, with a few references to what happened in the time between the two games, but they didn't. He/She is in the Great I-Don't-Know, same with the Exile. Basically Revan is tying the whole series together, so that character pretty much has to be in the third installment.

[Jediphile]

Maybe they shouldn't have a very big role in the story until the very end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly what I have in mind.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well, by the end of the game the protagonist would be their equal (I would think). Obsidian could have killed Revan off in TSL, with a few references to what happened in the time between the two games, but they didn't. He/She is in the Great I-Don't-Know, same with the Exile. Basically Revan is tying the whole series together, so that character pretty much has to be in the third installment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Obsidian did a good job of keeping them just in the picture. But without having any sort of real effect on the game they wrote.

 

In many ways you could consider most of it easter eggs for people who played KOTOR rather than defining the story.

 

You have to remember that your not just making a game for people who played KOTOR/II. But you also want a game that someone can pick up and play and make sense of without having played any of the other games.

 

Only an addon should have for a prerequistite playing the game (since the game would be required to run it anyway).

 

Off fighting the true Sith should keep them both out of the way in the same manner. Although your still going to have to do all that LS/DS Male/Female alternate stuff and thus waste time and energy you could be devoting to KIII in it's own right.

[Jediphile]

Maybe they shouldn't have a very big role in the story until the very end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But even if that is the case you still need a protagonist that is their equal or better.If they are not going to be in the game in that sense. Well you havnt really lost anything by killing them and you cleared up a mess of problems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I just don't see why that is necessary. To me the case is more that Revan and Exile *have* to be more powerful than your main pc. If not, then why does the main pc need to find them? My presumption would be that the new pc needs to find what became of Revan and Exile because only they have the power to save the republic. If the new pc is just as strong, then why would he need to?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I just don't see why that is necessary. To me the case is more that Revan and Exile *have* to be more powerful than your main pc. If not, then why does the main pc need to find them? My presumption would be that the new pc needs to find what became of Revan and Exile because only they have the power to save the republic. If the new pc is just as strong, then why would he need to?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you reduce the protogonist to the role of messenger boy.

 

If the new PC isnt as strong, then they really don't have a chance of getting to Sith Space anyway.

 

It's very anticlimactic when someone else saves the day.

[Jediphile]

I just don't see why that is necessary. To me the case is more that Revan and Exile *have* to be more powerful than your main pc. If not, then why does the main pc need to find them? My presumption would be that the new pc needs to find what became of Revan and Exile because only they have the power to save the republic. If the new pc is just as strong, then why would he need to?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you reduce the protogonist to the role of messenger boy.

 

If the new PC isnt as strong, then they really don't have a chance of getting to Sith Space anyway.

 

It's very anticlimactic when someone else saves the day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Revan got to Sith space alone. Someone else can do it with friends.

 

And being the one who facilitates victory does mean that you're a messenger boy. Would you call Gandalf a messenger boy? He was scarcely the one who decided things with his choices. But he was important for where he helped at the right moment. Besides, you need look no further than Frodo or Bilbo to see that you don't have to be particularly powerful to be the deciding factor in a great war - Aragorn and Gandalf and Faramir and hosts of others were far more powerful than Frodo ever was, yet it was still Frodo who decided between victory or defeat... or maybe Sam, you could argue, but then the same goes for him.