Food aid bad?

[Walsingham]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4662232.stm

 

Quite interesting piece on the causes of 'why Africa is so funted'.

[mkreku]

Isn't this common knowledge though?

 

"Give a man a fish and he'll survive the day. Teach him how to fish and he'll survive a lifetime"

 

...or something like that.

[BattleCookiee]

But modern farming also needs alot of education.

 

Big point now in Help Care is that we (the Western) thought that if we just give them modern stuff like tractors and advanched machinery, they would get up.

 

But machines break, and if nobody knows how the things actually work, you can't fix them and continue on with that less advanched (read: ancient) way.

 

That is also why the *current* way of aid is mainly education, to learn people how to use the stuff they get better, or how to create it themselves, and how to use the land better etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Atreides]

Africa has major problems. At the risk of sounding cruel, is this natural selection at work?

[Moose]

In that many millions of years ago their descendants chose to stay in Africa whilst the rest moved on?

 

I reckon the people that left were bullied off, they were the whelps. Well the tables have sure turned eh.

[Kaftan Barlast]

The main problem with food or financial aid to Africa is that the major part of it ends up in the back pockets of whayever corrupt regime happen to be in charge at the moment.

 

Thats also the main reason why third world countries have such huge deficits, their regimes borrow huge sums of money for themselves through their country.

 

 

If we stopped food import we would only starve more people to death because the people in charge will be able to cope anyway and will remain unaffected by the pressure this would create on the people.

[SteveThaiBinh]

That is also why the *current* way of aid is mainly education, to learn people how to use the stuff they get better, or how to create it themselves, and how to use the land better etc.

Education is a good target for aid funds, but brings its own problems. Locally-inappropriate Western-made textbooks glamourising an urban lifestyle encourage pupils to move to the cities and find work, draining further human resources from the countryside.

 

The World Bank and IMF's emphasis on loan repayments and cash crop production deserve a mention in the article, too, though they're a lot better than they were.

 

I don't think it's true to say that most money or food given as aid ends up in the wrong hands, but some does, and what doesn't still distorts local economies. There was a news report a few months ago from Africa, I don't remember where exactly. The aid agencies were predicting a famine, so they started buying as much food locally as they could in order to get ready for emergency relief programmes. This drove the local price of food sky-high and caused shortages - the problem actually became worse. The best thing western aid agencies can do is work in partnership with local NGOs who know the situation best.

[taks]

The main problem with food or financial aid to Africa is that the major part of it ends up in the back pockets of whayever corrupt regime happen to be in charge at the moment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the idea that aid only entrenches corrupt regimes is slowly gaining ground in political discussions that i've been reading. unfortunately, what are the options when milliions are starving and dying?

 

granted, everyone in here knows full well that i rarely, if ever, support welfare of any kind. however, i do have my exceptions and i don't necessarily call aid to someone that is dying and unable to work welfare (but that's another discussion). now we just need some rational ideas on how we can keep the aid getting to the people without lining the pockets of the criminal elements (often their elected leaders) and at the same time, encouraging these people to start producing for themselves (uh, the solution is obviously much more complex than "encoragement").

 

of course, i always liked sam kinnison's idea: give 'em luggage. tell 'em to move.

 

taks

[Gromnir]

Africa has major problems.  At the risk of sounding cruel, is this natural selection at work?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

well, no, it ain't natural selection. is unnatural selection. there is a gap which 3rd world countries cannot close w/o help. takes lots of money, resources and time to go from being a resource producer to a capital producer. western nations went through the industrial revolution a long time ago. study the transition of england from being a wool producer to a textile producer. were a very complex process but far less complex than would a similar transition would be today. the enclosure acts and rise of mercantilism ain't nothing compared to complexities of modern world economies.

 

where is sub-saharn africa gonna get the money to makes the shift from resource to capital production? make process even more difficult when you got drought and war constantly sucking away what little money you got. feed starving children and protect boarders, or develop an infrastructure capable of supporting a capital production economy?

 

not matter how smart or able the people in sub-saharan Africa is. is just no way they can close the gap w/o help. is completely unnatural.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[BattleCookiee]

The Africans cannot as easily as the Europeans gain their wealth. Why? Because the prosper of the Europeans was due to the exploitation of the Africans. We made big bucks of their labour, ground and natural resources. Even if we stopped now, they still have less resources than they used, and the labour isn't as educated as ours. Also the trouble is their HUGE loans, forcing them to spend major parts of the country to make export products to the Western Nations just to pay the rent on it, without ever seeing an end-product of it they can purchase...

 

The only way the Africans could Easily gain wealth is do the European way of exploiting other countries to gain their own wealth, but since Africa is the poorest of the poorest today there is nobody they could exploit, and thus they have to do it the hard way, or not at all...

Edited February 1, 2006 by Battlewookiee

[Arkan]

Isn't this common knowledge though?

 

"Give a man a fish and he'll survive the day. Teach him how to fish and he'll survive a lifetime"

 

...or something like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and you lose a repeat customer.

[Nick_i_am]

Africa has major problems.  At the risk of sounding cruel, is this natural selection at work?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ROFL

 

you're going to hell boyo.

[Walsingham]

I don't think it's natural selection. In fact I don't believe mankind can suffer natural selection any more on account of our ability to be both victims and masters of Fate. But that's a different argument for another time.

 

Speaking as a Hobbesian I feel that aid, while essential for stuff like earthquakes is very very bad for the states who receive it. That is it breaks the bonds of care between a govt and its people. Where the underlying problem is political instability I feel this is the cure feeding the disease. Personally I feel aid agencies shoudl try to engage with local govt officials wherever possible and have them shoulder the basic responsibilty of caring for their own people. Teach them logistics/planning/medicine.

[Craigboy2]

The Africans cannot as easily as the Europeans gain their wealth. Why? Because the prosper of the Europeans was due to the exploitation of the Africans. We made big bucks of their labour, ground and natural resources. Even if we stopped now, they still have less resources than they used, and the labour isn't as educated as ours. Also the trouble is their HUGE loans, forcing them to spend major parts of the country to make export products to the Western Nations just to pay the rent on it, without ever seeing an end-product of it they can purchase...

 

The only way the Africans could Easily gain wealth is do the European way of exploiting other countries to gain their own wealth, but since Africa is the poorest of the poorest today there is nobody they could exploit, and thus they have to do it the hard way, or not at all...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems like that's how life works sometimes, when there's a winner, there's a loser. It's a very sad and pessimistic philosophy but at times it seems true.

[SteveThaiBinh]

It seems like that's how life works sometimes, when there's a winner, there's a loser. It's a very sad and pessimistic philosophy but at times it seems true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Advocates of free trade claim it is not a zero-sum game. When implemented fairly, it benefits all sides. Alas, Europe and the US haven't been willing to cut agricultural subsidies or allow African food producers to sell their goods for a fair price.

 

The main problem with aid is not that it's damaging in itself, but that it can only ever be a drop in the ocean and a distraction from the real issue: getting African economies and the international trade system working.

[kumquatq3]

Anyone ever read "Ishmael" and it's follow-ups? Covers this pretty well.