No fight in RPG

[Jorian Drake]

So...no XP giving at all? ...how to use this?

[Jediphile]

So...no XP giving at all? ...how to use this? 

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It's just the same as usual except that as GM you don't tell your players how many xp they have earned - you keep it to yourself. You then do all the math totalling up xp values yourself, and when the characters have earned enough to advance and you think the time is appropriate in the campaign, then you tell the players who can advance and who cannot.

 

If you play with level training, as I do, this is really convenient, because you can "time" when and where the PCs get an opportunity to take some downtime to increase their skills and abilities.

 

Basically it just comes down to the GM totalling up the xp values instead of the individual player, but it changes the gaming experience a lot IMHO.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Jediphile

[Jorian Drake]

Thanks

 

...Any new ideas/scenarios for a non-fight game?

[Jediphile]

Thanks

 

...Any new ideas/scenarios for a non-fight game? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, the truth is that since I play AD&D, I really do need fights in there now and then, since that is what the characters are automatically skilled at in D&D. Well, I don't *need* fights, but my players tend to get bored (at least some of them) if we go for several nights without a fight...

 

That said, I do tone it down a lot and try to limit it to the crucial battles. After all, with all the characters being level 13+, why should I go through the pointless dice-rolling exercise of running their random encounter with a war party of 11 orcs? I just tell them that they randomly encounter the orcs and kill them or chase them off, then continue on their way. End of story - case closed!

 

I did manage to persuade them to avoid fighting at one point. I had an old enemy - a powerful wizard - capture the entire group and throw them in prison. Now they had to escape, but naturally they had none of their equipment, they were all rather damaged, and the spellcasters had no magic with both spellbooks and holy symbols removed and no spells currently memorized. That made it a challenge because even a fight with three lowly prison guards was a challenge, since they did have weapons and armor, while the group had none, nor any means of healing. And naturally I had staged it so that the weapons and armor they could capture was of little or no use to them...

 

For true non-fights I also recommend plots, where the characters are framed for something. The authorities think they're guilty, but can't prove, so they give the PCs a time limit to clear their own names and catch the real criminals. This is best in a city setting, where the characters cannot get into random fights without coming to the attention of the city guard and thereby confirm the authories suspicions of their guilt. The PCs will have to talk and investigate, and their weapons and magic won't help them, because a fight will only bring them into more trouble. Investigate magic will be very useful, though.

 

Yet another form of investigate scenario is the timed "whodunit" plot. Basically it begins with a murder, and everyone present - including the PCs, naturally - are suspects. Anyone trying to leave or becoming violent will only cast suspicion upon himself, and so group pressure helps to keep everyone together until the murderer can be discovered. You can also isolate the PCs with the other NPCs on an island, a mansion far from civilization, or whatever. However, the GM also has a timeline that states at what times more things will happen. People will disappear, some more will be found murdered, and other strange things. This can work quite well even in D&D, though you might get a fight in the end, when the murderer is identified.

[Jorian Drake]

Timed investigations....hmm, may work out

[Lancer]

Timed investigations....hmm, may work out 

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Building upon this, you can also use a timeline of events for any type of adventure. It need not be only for murder investigations. In fact you can construct a global timeline of events for when key political or earth-shattering events occur in your campaign. I will use the Mystaran calendar as an example..

 

Perhaps on Nuwmont 15, you know that Nation X will declare war on Nation Y and several months later on Yarthmont 20 , a key battle will sway the war one way or the other. You can have political assasinations occur, or important NPCs kidnapped on certain dates just as in our own real world that things happen oblivious to our own existence.. Now these events may or may not involve the PCs directly but they will undoubtedly affect politics and economics all across the world.

 

For example, perhaps your PCs in Nation Z are allies of Nation Y which means that Nation Z's government might well be sending aid to Nation Y. It is possible that Nation X will retaliate and will attempt to destroy the source of Z's munitions. Here is an example of how the PCs can get involved in something that they were not expecting to get entangled in.

 

Or Perhaps, the PC's nation itself is involved in war and now the PCs have to decide their degree of involvement... And if they are reluctant to get involved, you can have a key ruler of the PCs' nation assassinated on such and such date as a punishment for their apathy.. And yadda, yadda. You get the picture.

 

 

Although outside events may or may not directly involve the PCs they can be used (if nothing else) as an awesome way to breathe life into a world and make it seem more believable and dynamic.

 

Furthermore, don't forget holidays as well if you are going to have a yearly calendar for your campaign. They add a lot of flavor and in some cases may affect the PCs in a significant way. As another example, in AD&D Mystara, the last day of the year (Day of Dread; Kaldmont 28) marks the day in which magic ceases on Mystara. This will of course affect any PC magic-users directly.

 

It is possible that your PCs may wish to get involved in some of these various global/regional plots as either side quests or as part of your main campaign story arc. Let them.

Edited February 11, 2006 by Lancer

[Lancer]

On a smaller scale, you can also use "time" as an effective device to punish PCs who take too long to complete a adventure.. Face it, if the PCs take TOO long to act, the villain might have a sudden bout of insanity and murder the princess.. Or the princess may decide to take her own life because she has suffered for far too long.. Or that evil commander that was pigeonholed in that stronghold for a long time finally found a way to escape... After all, the villains won't be waiting for the PCs like sitting ducks. The villains have their own agenda and if the PCs are too slow to react, they might be too late. That is tough, but that is reality.

 

This further hits home the point that the world is a dynamic one that is constantly changing on its own regardless of the PCs' actions. Now, I would not recommend timed missions all the time, but sometimes they are a nice little touch.

Edited February 11, 2006 by Lancer

[Jorian Drake]

Thanks again for all help, I have now lots of material for pnp,

so I expand this thread to: RPG-s and fighting systems of them

So this don't need to be closed, and you can discuss witch game sys

is better or worse for handling fights/wars, and why/how.

[Dyan]

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread. *approves*. Personally, I'm trying to run a game over at another forum where combat is minimalised. I'm a bit short on ideas too. Combat tends to be pretty lethal and in a non-magical setting, characters heal slowly and die fast.

 

There's quite a lot of social interaction, with characters being connected in some way or other to each other. Currently, they're stuck on a caravan travelling from point A to point B with a few encounters and stops strewn along the way. I'm having trouble keeping things interesting... I don't suppose anyone has any ideas?

[Jorian Drake]

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread. *approves*. Personally, I'm trying to run a game over at another forum where combat is minimalised. I'm a bit short on ideas too. Combat tends to be pretty lethal and in a non-magical setting, characters heal slowly and die fast.

 

There's quite a lot of social interaction, with characters being connected in some way or other to each other. Currently, they're stuck on a caravan travelling from point A to point B with a few encounters and stops strewn along the way. I'm having trouble keeping things interesting... I don't suppose anyone has any ideas?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An oasis with beduins, a sandstorm, run out of food/water, heat and cold (day/night), camels die, or are stolen (trying to find thief, or new camels), meeting another caravan on the way, finding a 'ghost town' (NO ghosts in it), someone will be killed in the caravan and the PC-s need to find the killer, a ship stranded in the middle of the desert (???)...enough?

[Dyan]

*grins* if it were set in a desert, sure. But I think that most of these ideas can be adapted for a temperate setting with forests and the like.

 

I like the ghost town idea. Since its a no magic world (or so the players are led to believe), it could be quite fun. Stealing the horses could be quite good too - they'd have to save a certain number or the Caravan would be pretty screwed - not to mention they wouldn't get any pay due to the Caravan having to cut its loses.

 

I've already planned to have the roads washed out with storms and the like - heck, right now one of the caravan wheels/axles is broken so the PCs have had to rush to the nearest place and find a replacement. Catch is, they're in bandit infested territory.

 

I like the idea about the murder in the Caravan too. That could make for an interesting plot. Of course, if I fix it just right, everyone will be suspect. Which is always nice.

 

Cheers

[Jorian Drake]

*grins* if it were set in a desert, sure. But I think that most of these ideas can be adapted for a temperate setting with forests and the like.

 

I like the ghost town idea. Since its a no magic world (or so the players are led to believe), it could be quite fun. Stealing the horses could be quite good too - they'd have to save a certain number or the Caravan would be pretty screwed - not to mention they wouldn't get any pay due to the Caravan having to cut its loses.

 

I've already planned to have the roads washed out with storms and the like - heck, right now one of the caravan wheels/axles is broken so the PCs have had to rush to the nearest place and find a replacement. Catch is, they're in bandit infested territory.

 

I like the idea about the murder in the Caravan too. That could make for an interesting plot. Of course, if I fix it just right, everyone will be suspect. Which is always nice.

 

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where IS it set then? Maybe I can give you more tips.

[Dyan]

Well, the setting is a "no magic", low fantasy setting where everyone is human(oid), and the most mundane creatures are myth and legend. The actual climate is temperate and the land is very much like medieval europe - vast forests, mountains, etc, etc.

 

The technological level is post medieval - or at the very late stages but with one major difference: blackpowder/gunpowder hasn't been invented.

 

After five hundred years of warfare, five major countries/empires have arisen and the game is set about 150 years after the wars ended. Meaning there's been a chance to rebuild and whatnot. Anyway, there are political stirrings and should the wrong diplomat get murdered then war could break out again. Of course, should this happen, the "world" will enter a new dark age and basically, its bad for everyone.

 

The PCs are a mixed bunch - one is a former pirate, three are nobles (from the two main factions), and another is a commoner who's mother was a noble. Another is a travelling psuedo kung-fu drunken monk and the last is a "hick"(his description, not mine). Most of the PCs are linked in some form or other and their backstories, past or blood, parents, family have some connection - whether they know it or not. It makes for an interesting weave of interactions.

 

Anyway, the story is that for many and a varied reason, all the PCs wish to leave the capital of one of these empires and basically, hop on a merchant caravan "train" (not a steam engine, but horse drawn thing) carrying lumber, silk and a few other bits and pieces - hiring themselves out as guards, cooks, or as passengers. So they travel from one country to another - and have recently left the city. What they do afterwards is really up to them, but for now, everyone's together on this Caravan.

 

Edit, I should mention that this is completely homebrew - setting and system. The system is mainly a set of guidelines, based in part off VtM rules - but not a direct rip off. Bascially, there are a set of stats, skills and martial skills that have no bearing to one another. XP is handled in the form of "points" and can be used to upgrade any skill, martial skill or attribute. I think that just about covers it..

Edited February 13, 2006 by Dyan

[Jorian Drake]

Well, the setting is a "no magic", low fantasy setting where everyone is human(oid), and the most mundane creatures are myth and legend. The actual climate is temperate and the land is very much like medieval europe - vast forests, mountains, etc, etc.

 

The technological level is post medieval - or at the very late stages but with one major difference: blackpowder/gunpowder hasn't been invented.

 

After five hundred years of warfare, five major countries/empires have arisen and the game is set about 150 years after the wars ended. Meaning there's been a chance to rebuild and whatnot. Anyway, there are political stirrings and should the wrong diplomat get murdered then war could break out again. Of course, should this happen, the "world" will enter a new dark age and basically, its bad for everyone.

 

The PCs are a mixed bunch - one is a former pirate, three are nobles (from the two main factions), and another is a commoner who's mother was a noble. Another is a travelling psuedo kung-fu drunken monk and the last is a "hick"(his description, not mine). Most of the PCs are linked in some form or other and their backstories, past or blood, parents, family have some connection - whether they know it or not. It makes for an interesting weave of interactions.

 

Anyway, the story is that for many and a varied reason, all the PCs wish to leave the capital of one of these empires and basically, hop on a merchant caravan "train" (not a steam engine, but horse drawn thing) carrying lumber, silk and a few other bits and pieces - hiring themselves out as guards, cooks, or as passengers. So they travel from one country to another - and have recently left the city. What they do afterwards is really up to them, but for now, everyone's together on this Caravan.

 

Edit, I should mention that this is completely homebrew - setting and system. The system is mainly a set of guidelines, based in part off VtM rules - but not a direct rip off. Bascially, there are a set of stats, skills and martial skills that have no bearing to one another. XP is handled in the form of "points" and can be used to upgrade any skill, martial skill or attribute. I think that just about covers it..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...the 'train' loses the railroad...actually it has been stolen to build a house :D

...steam engines shuld be there already...or are coming now

...rebellions and patriotism are good to change borders, make complots, and use intrigues

(what if players work for a baron, and then they realize-too late- that he want to create=/restore a new Kingdom)

...bandits (yeah, I know) attack the train...and they derail it to another way

(I hope you understand what I wanna say)

...an old hag needs help to get the cow off the road...many posibilities in this one

...between two kingdoms the border is closed, they need to leave the train, and sneak past the guards, and steal a new train on ther other side of the border

[Dyan]

Old Hag... why do I immediately think "Kreia"?

 

Thanks for all the ideas btw . I'm sure I can at least use some of them within the next few posts. My poor players won't know what's hit them "

[Jediphile]

Old Hag... why do I immediately think "Kreia"? 

 

Thanks for all the ideas btw . I'm sure I can at least use some of them within the next few posts. My poor players won't know what's hit them "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You should also consider just once doing an "adventure" where nothing is wrong. Everything is as it should be, though people naturally have their secrets and misgivings as they always do, which will make the PCs suspicious, as they think this is something they need to investigate. For that sort of thing you need detailed descriptions of the NPCs so that you know their secrets and what they will say to avoid revealing them.

 

Just be aware that it only works once - you can never do it again after that!

[Jorian Drake]

Old Hag... why do I immediately think "Kreia"? 

 

Thanks for all the ideas btw . I'm sure I can at least use some of them within the next few posts. My poor players won't know what's hit them "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe becouse of the nice comics?

[Dyan]

Heh, might be. I only read the Darth Mad one though. Well, only Kotor related one.

 

I like the idea about running an adventure with nothing wrong... my players are so paranoid of me for some reason. Not sure why. I'm always so *nice* to them. Nice as in, sometimes items are cursed, but mostly they're not - they just seem that way. *snort*

[Jorian Drake]

Just be aware that it only works once - you can never do it again after that! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Be aware of this

[Jediphile]

Heh, might be. I only read the Darth Mad one though. Well, only Kotor related one.

 

I like the idea about running an adventure with nothing wrong... my players are so paranoid of me for some reason. Not sure why. I'm always so *nice* to them. Nice as in, sometimes items are cursed, but mostly they're not - they just seem that way. *snort*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I once gave the players some magical items that were really powerful and with no negative side-effects... They were really worried for a while... And me being such a nice GM

[Jorian Drake]

Heh, might be. I only read the Darth Mad one though. Well, only Kotor related one.

 

I like the idea about running an adventure with nothing wrong... my players are so paranoid of me for some reason. Not sure why. I'm always so *nice* to them. Nice as in, sometimes items are cursed, but mostly they're not - they just seem that way. *snort*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I once gave the players some magical items that were really powerful and with no negative side-effects... They were really worried for a while... And me being such a nice GM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, this happened to me too...and then, the owner of the artifacts showed up after 3-4 games

[Jediphile]

Heh, might be. I only read the Darth Mad one though. Well, only Kotor related one.

 

I like the idea about running an adventure with nothing wrong... my players are so paranoid of me for some reason. Not sure why. I'm always so *nice* to them. Nice as in, sometimes items are cursed, but mostly they're not - they just seem that way. *snort*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I once gave the players some magical items that were really powerful and with no negative side-effects... They were really worried for a while... And me being such a nice GM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, this happened to me too...and then, the owner of the artifacts showed up after 3-4 games

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I just gave out a few hints that the souls of demons were trapped in the artifacts... The players were so scared that I could just lean back and enjoy their paranoia for a few hours... Ah, it's good to be a GM...

[Jorian Drake]

Heh, might be. I only read the Darth Mad one though. Well, only Kotor related one.

 

I like the idea about running an adventure with nothing wrong... my players are so paranoid of me for some reason. Not sure why. I'm always so *nice* to them. Nice as in, sometimes items are cursed, but mostly they're not - they just seem that way. *snort*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I once gave the players some magical items that were really powerful and with no negative side-effects... They were really worried for a while... And me being such a nice GM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, this happened to me too...and then, the owner of the artifacts showed up after 3-4 games

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I just gave out a few hints that the souls of demons were trapped in the artifacts... The players were so scared that I could just lean back and enjoy their paranoia for a few hours... Ah, it's good to be a GM...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yessss...

[Jorian Drake]

I made my second timed scenario game. Two players died, but all of the (included dead ones) loved it

[Jediphile]

I made my second timed scenario game. Two players died, but all of the (included dead ones) loved it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's good to hear.

 

Well done.