Judge Hades Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 That was really stupid of them. Mind you I did have a copy before it was released. I still bought the game because it was the right thing to do. It just seemed like that every publisher was out to get Troika. Sierra F'ed up by sitting on Arcanum's release. Atari not giving Troika the funds to properly patch their game and limited the amount of text for it. Activision for not letting Bloodlines out when it was done instead of having to wait til Half Life 2 is released. Troika, for all its faults, had a string of very bad luck with their publishers.
Gromnir Posted January 19, 2006 Author Posted January 19, 2006 little megan, the girl down the street with the lemonade stand, has more business acumen than did the entire troika brain trust. ego is what killed troika. timmy and co. shoulda "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Judge Hades Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Okay, but the publishers didn't help any.
Cantousent Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 I can't ignore a chance to state my irritation at St. Timmy. The interview where he essentially said his games were too complex and thus were not successful was the nail in the coffin. Aside from Troika, which is better left forgotten, Obs probably has nothing to gain by dishing dirt on WotC. In fact, dishing dirt on the publisher and WotC didn't help Troika stay in the game, did it. It made them seem small and petty, an appearance that undoubtedly reflects reality. I mean, I thought JEs comments regarding licensed properties were a bit on the edge, but at least he never, to my knowledge, blamed the publisher or the licensor for the sales or quality of his games. In fact, he's ever the candid designer in that area. It might not be wise, but I always appreciated the fact that he didn't pass the buck. Speaking of Ferret, I haven't seen him in these parts for a while. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
ramza Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 I still feel bad about the crew of those two games not being finished and released. Two great games, by the sound of it, cut before their time. :'( I almost looked forward to using a grenade in melee. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Blame Herve, that's what I do <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have an interesting piece of news about one of those games but I promised not to tell anything at this stage since it's still unofficial... "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
Spider Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Activision for not letting Bloodlines out when it was done instead of having to wait til Half Life 2 is released. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do you have confirmation of this? I have also heard this rumor, but I've also heard that development for Bloodlines was cut short when WW decided to end the WoD, thus the ending was kinda rushed. The two may not be mutually exclusive of course (the gmae is finished and then sits with ACtivision for months) but that makes little sense to me.
213374U Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Do you have confirmation of this? I have also heard this rumor, but I've also heard that development for Bloodlines was cut short when WW decided to end the WoD, thus the ending was kinda rushed. The two may not be mutually exclusive of course (the gmae is finished and then sits with ACtivision for months) but that makes little sense to me. No, that's no rumor. They had a contract with Valve that prevented them from releasing BL before HL2 was published, since BL is Source-based. Apparently Valve wanted HL2 to be the first game to be released using their engine. What I don't know for sure is how soon had Troika finished BL before HL2 was released. You're talking two different things, anyway. The plot of the game is heavily influenced by WW's intention to end the old WoD, that's true. That has nothing to do with the regrettable state the code of the game is in. You see, BL uses an early, unpolished version of Source. The fact that they didn't update their version of Source to the latest before release and the obvious lack of QA the game suffers from indicate that they either rushed the game for simultaneous release with HL, or just pure ol' sloppiness on their part. A shame, either way. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Judge Hades Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 I have an interesting piece of news about one of those games but I promised not to tell anything at this stage since it's still unofficial... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh no, Ramza is going to bombard us with "JEFFERSON LIVES!" rants again. RUN KIDDIES! RUN!
Atreides Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 ZOMG, it's Jefferson isn't it?? IT'S JEFFERSON ISN'T IT?!! Spreading beauty with my katana.
Ellester Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Activision for not letting Bloodlines out when it was done instead of having to wait til Half Life 2 is released. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do you have confirmation of this? I have also heard this rumor, but I've also heard that development for Bloodlines was cut short when WW decided to end the WoD, thus the ending was kinda rushed. The two may not be mutually exclusive of course (the gmae is finished and then sits with ACtivision for months) but that makes little sense to me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is truth in both. Bllodlines was finished way before it was released, and was on hold until HL2 came out. Troika also asked for extra funds so they could polish up the games bugs, which Activision refused to do. There was plenty of time to do this, but Activision already felt it put enough money into Bloodlines and didn't want to throw more money in. Which is fair for a publisher to do. As noted by Tim, Troika basically closed down 5 months (or something like that) before Bloodlines was released, as there was no funding. Troika made it official after Bloodlines was released, but there really wasn't a company for a while before release. Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson
Ellester Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 I have an interesting piece of news about one of those games but I promised not to tell anything at this stage since it's still unofficial... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh no, Ramza is going to bombard us with "JEFFERSON LIVES!" rants again. RUN KIDDIES! RUN! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Truthfully Atari should release Jefferson, as NWN2 is the only d&d game in production that we know of. BG3 rumors came and went, and we have seen no proof that it is being worked on. What can it hurt, release an older game with older graphics, its not like they are releasing anything else? Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson
Judge Hades Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Or they could let Obsidian take it, give it an additional year development time, and have them apply the same graphical upgrades they did to NWN 2 to it, then release it.
ramza Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Since I sense people getting ironical, just ask a "certain" person for more info... "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
Llyranor Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Jefferson = NWN2 xpac (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Judge Hades Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 No. jefferson is NWN 2! Neverwinter Nights 2: The Black Hound!
Atreides Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 The Chosen One Must Choose! Spreading beauty with my katana.
alanschu Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Activision for not letting Bloodlines out when it was done instead of having to wait til Half Life 2 is released. Troika, for all its faults, had a string of very bad luck with their publishers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That would make sense....if it was true. Actually it wouldn't make sense at all, as I'm sure Activision would rather release the game rather than sitting on it for months. Activision's "permission" had nothing to do with it. However, Activision was nice enough to keep Troika around long enough to release the patch, rather than just cutting the ties right away. (And I wonder how "done" Bloodlines really was, given the buggy state it was released in). If you want to blame anybody, you should at least blame Valve. Though I don't think it's much of a surprise that Valve would not want someone else to be the first company to release a game with their shiny new engine.
Judge Hades Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Activision made the deal with Valve for the engine so they agreed to that clause.
alanschu Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 There's so much more that you'll never know behind the scenes. And did Activision make the deal, or did Troika use Activisions money to go for the engine?
Judge Hades Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Well, bottomline is that Troika had a string of bad luck which caused its downfall. Bah, who gives a smeg. Its old news. I just hope that Obsidian doesn't follow Troika's path.
alanschu Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Well, bottomline is that Troika had a string of bad luck which caused its downfall. Bah, who gives a smeg. Its old news. I just hope that Obsidian doesn't follow Troika's path. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't get on my case for it being old news...you were the one bringing it up yesterday. I agree with Gromnir that the bulk of the responsibility of Troika's downfall was Troika themselves. You can only get away with making buggy games and trashing publishers so long before it comes back to haunt you.
Llyranor Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Hopefully Obs won't go the way of Troika. On last count, KOTOR2 sold past the million mark, and NWN2 is bound to sell well as well. I wouldn't be too worried. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Kaftan Barlast Posted January 19, 2006 Posted January 19, 2006 Why was it that Troika went down really? I only remeber hearing that their publisher, activision I think, withdrew all funding and all money from the sales of Bloodlines. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
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