Shooting for 30 hours?

[alanschu]

This is a quote from Ferret from a recent interview:

 

The number of hours is a tricky thing to quantify - we're shooting for 30 to 40 hours of dungeon-romping, plot-twisting and monster-slaying fun. But mileage can vary widely on this.

 

Shooting for 30 hours? What the hell kind of campaign is that? I estimate that for hardcore players this number will be much less, as it always is. I estimate that I will be able to finish the game with all the side quests in about 15 hours. (my formula is almost always the minimum hours according to the developer divided by two)

 

What the **** is going on with games nowadays? Why arent game developers focusing on creating large worlds with a lot of interesting sidequests and characters that gamers can immerse themselves in instead of these short displays of advanced graphics? Why the hell do they all cater to the ****ing attention disorder crowd?

 

That even the corpse of those partially responsible for fallout and torment is making a 15 hour dungeon romp is disturbing indeed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's probably because the games themselves take much more $$$ per hour of gameplay than they ever used to.

 

If you don't like it, don't play.

[Haitoku]

No Hades, just no.

 

I will play this game. I will get to level 20+ by the end of the game. It will be 30 hours of fun, because I know OE will come up with a neat and interesting story. I will be satisfied when I finish.

 

Unlike you Hades, because you will get all upset over something completely stupid.

[Judge Hades]

Rapid leveling is stupid.

[karka]

I think, d20 is just not good for making CRPG's.

[Gabrielle]

Rapid leveling is good. The sooner you become powerful the better. It helps if the enemy matches your level just as well. I'm a power gamer by heart.

[Judge Hades]

I am not a power gamer.

[roshan]

This is a quote from Ferret from a recent interview:

 

The number of hours is a tricky thing to quantify - we're shooting for 30 to 40 hours of dungeon-romping, plot-twisting and monster-slaying fun. But mileage can vary widely on this.

 

Shooting for 30 hours? What the hell kind of campaign is that? I estimate that for hardcore players this number will be much less, as it always is. I estimate that I will be able to finish the game with all the side quests in about 15 hours. (my formula is almost always the minimum hours according to the developer divided by two)

 

What the **** is going on with games nowadays? Why arent game developers focusing on creating large worlds with a lot of interesting sidequests and characters that gamers can immerse themselves in instead of these short displays of advanced graphics? Why the hell do they all cater to the ****ing attention disorder crowd?

 

That even the corpse of those partially responsible for fallout and torment is making a 15 hour dungeon romp is disturbing indeed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's probably because the games themselves take much more $$$ per hour of gameplay than they ever used to.

 

If you don't like it, don't play.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How much more would it cost to add in another 15 hours or so? A lot of the game is tile based, the foliage is randomly generated, the engine and rules are already programmed.

 

All that needs to be done is for more roleplaying content to be created, which shouldnt be a problem unless the designers are specifically catering to the attention disorder crowd OR they do not have the talent or ability to create good content.

[Child of Flame]

If I am then I am.  What is the big deal of it? 

 

It all comes to proper game mastering and in this case Obsidian is the game master.  A game master that lets his or her players make abuses is a very poor game master.  As a player, you will always want more, but the game master needs to place proper restrictions so that the game retains balance and fun.

 

Being a god in such a short time might be fun for the short term, but ultimately unrewarding because you did not earn it.  If I am to take a character from level 1 to level 20 I want to earn it.  A good CRPG is fun to play.  A great CRPG is rewarding to play.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Visc, you bought Neverwinter Nights.

 

More than once.

 

What does that say about your preference when it comes to game masters?

[GhostofAnakin]

The problem is that it probably wont last me anywhere close to 30 hours.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Is that really the be-all and end-all in terms of what a good game is for you?

 

Seriously, it's silly to fret about it "only" being 30-40 hours before actually playing it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Read my reply to Arkan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It included something about referencing PS:T and FO, right?

[Judge Hades]

So what if I bought Neverwinter Nights twice? What does this discussion of Neverwinter Nights 2 have anything to do with Neverwinter Nights 1? So what if I prefer a single DVD that has the game with both expansions than have 5 discs which I gave to a friend of mine?

 

Bringing up Neverwinter Nights 1 is irrelevant to this discussion and since you brought it up this irrelevancy, you lose.

[Child of Flame]

So what if I bought Neverwinter Nights twice?  What does this discussion of Neverwinter Nights 2 have anything to do with Neverwinter Nights 1?  So what if I prefer a single DVD that has the game with both expansions than have 5 discs which I gave to a friend of mine?

 

Bringing up Neverwinter Nights 1 is irrelevant to this discussion and since you brought it up this irrelevancy, you lose.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Whatever you say boss.

 

EDIT: Grr, page break.

Edited January 12, 2006 by Child of Flame

[alanschu]

How much more would it cost to add in another 15 hours or so? A lot of the game is tile based, the foliage is randomly generated, the engine and rules are already programmed.

 

All that needs to be done is for more roleplaying content to be created, which shouldnt be a problem unless the designers are specifically catering to the attention disorder crowd OR they do not have the talent or ability to create good content.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The good content that you are demanding takes tons of time. I would suspect that adding an additional 15 hours of well thought out "roleplaying content" (whatever the hell that entails) would seriously add months to the game development time, if not more. I am quite confident you weren't thinking about 15 hours of crap gameplay, which could be done relatively quickly.

 

The Engine and rules being programmed already won't affect things as much as you may like, because the game is designed (i.e. the story and all that stuff) concurrently with the engine. All it means is that the graphics programmers can either add more stuff, or have nothing to do on this project and move on.

[Gabrielle]

 

Good fun. This has started to become too funny.

[SteveThaiBinh]

How much more would it cost to add in another 15 hours or so? A lot of the game is tile based, the foliage is randomly generated, the engine and rules are already programmed.

The main story of NWN was criticised, rightly I think, for being too long. Bioware faced the same issue that's being discussed here - you design a game with 20 levels so you want to showcase them, but it doesn't feel right to be levelling up every half and hour. So they made a very long, rather dull campaign. I doubt it would take much for Obsidian to add another 15 hours to NWN2, but would they be good hours?

[Judge Hades]

Like I said 30 to 40 hours in length doesn't bother me. Its the end level of my character that I am concerned with.

[Volourn]

"It took Elminster 500 years to go from level 1 to level 33rd (or what level he is currently at) so does it make any sort of sense that it would take a character from level 1 to level 20 in the span of a few in game weeks? No, it does not."

 

You seem to be leaving out a small detail here. Most of Elminster's leveling took place when he was just a young man. Afterall, the only reason why he has lived so long is that he/is a Chosen of Mystra.

 

Alos, you can't really compare levels per hours in a video game with pnp levels per hour. Lots of the hours spent in pnp is rolling dice, and eating potato chips. In video games, all the rolling is auto done by computer therefore combat which cna take an hour in RL takes a few minutes in game. You can also accomplish 'epic quests' in a computer game in much less time than you do in pnp.

 

In essence, you are comparing apples to oranges here.

 

I think a level per 2 hpurs is not that bad in a CRPG environemnt. In pnp, it would be horrendous.

 

 

"The main story of NWN was criticised,"

 

Criticized by some; enjoyed by others. Even some of those who criticize it have played it multiple times so it cna't be all bad. (w00t)

 

Not saying it's perfetc as it wasn't. Afterall, some of the dungeons/caves were just overfilled monste rhives. The biggest example of this was the goblin/orc/bugbear/ogre caves of ch2. Most of that could have been cut in half,a nd still would have gotten the plot thoroughly explored.

Edited January 12, 2006 by Volourn

[Gabrielle]

Like I said 30 to 40 hours in length doesn't bother me.  Its the end level of my character that I am concerned with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why? You play through, you win. What's the deal?

[alanschu]

Like I said 30 to 40 hours in length doesn't bother me.  Its the end level of my character that I am concerned with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Which is silly.

 

Play the game for the content and the experience. I seriously wonder how you've been able to enjoy any CRPG, because as far as I'm concerned they all allow for quick level progression.

Edited January 12, 2006 by alanschu

[Haitoku]

Like I said 30 to 40 hours in length doesn't bother me.  Its the end level of my character that I am concerned with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Which is silly.

 

Play the game for the content and the experience. I seriously wonder how you've been able to enjoy any CRPG, because as far as I'm concerned they all allow for quick level progression.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He is so hung up on the rules, I actually think this game could be a masterpiece and he would not like it for that reason alone.

[Child of Flame]

<3 quotes taken out of context!

[Judge Hades]

The big deal is the end level. Volourn in my PnP d20 System campaigns on average my players level their caharacters once in every 10 to 12 hours real time. I expect my CRPG leveling to be half that time for those reasons you give.

[Judge Hades]

Which is silly.

 

Play the game for the content and the experience.  I seriously wonder how you've been able to enjoy any CRPG, because as far as I'm concerned they all allow for quick level progression.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Baldur's Gate didn't.

[Gabrielle]

The big deal is the end level.  Volourn in my PnP d20 System campaigns on average my players level their caharacters once in every 10 to 12 hours real time.  I expect my CRPG leveling to be half that time for those reasons you give.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Than you would be playing that game for a long time at that rate to gain high levels.

[mkreku]

Pool of Radiance (the original from like.. 1988 or so) sure as hell didn't! Max level for a fighter was 8 (I think) and for mages it was even lower.. 6 or so. That game still took probably 50 hours to complete, unless you were using a guidebook/walkthrough.

 

Best D&D game I've ever played.

 

 

 

Edit: Wrong year.

Edited January 12, 2006 by mkreku

[Judge Hades]

Yes, my point exactly. I plan my campaigns to start at 1st level and end around 14th to 16th level for the party.