Who Kriea actually could be?

[Zelean]

<chuckle, chuckle>

 

Not that I expected you would care to make your case. Why do people so easily say things such as 'this is a sure thing' these days and don't care enough to justify their position?! Just hope you don't become a prominent scientist

[Alec]

On Wookieepedia Kreia is referred as Darth Traya

[Xard]

And as I said, Atris being Darth Traya was cut.

 

Atris was not referred as Darth Traya in neither of those.

 

K:{Sighs, a little quieter}And there must always be a Darth Traya. The galaxy needs its betrayers, especially in the times to come.

 

That can mean nearly anything, or better to be said, everyone. You have to remember that player may kill Atris if (s)he wants, so she might not even be alive in "times to come".

 

K: For you... it is different.

 

That for you it doesn't mean that she is Darth Traya. Atris believes strongly in titles. You are sith? Fine, thou shalt be smited. You are Jedi? Well, you better probe yourself to be.

 

To her titles holds great significance.

 

And lets not forget what she tells you about three sith lords if you ask her. Can't remember it correctly, but she said that she hides, and if she would now be revealed, Galaxy would be doomed or something like. Haven't played game in last to months, so can't remeber exactly. Was after Peragus IMO. Someone who is good to search voice files might like to find that one

 

However, it doesn't matter when Atris is revealed.

 

K: *Snip* Her teachings could not be allowed to continue.

 

So she was needed to be revealed. Duh, this is pointless unless I find that dialog file, but I am not going to play game again just because of this (like I said already) and I am very poor searcher of dialog files.

[Zelean]

Don't get me wrong. I thought Kreia was Traya until very recently, too. For about the very same reasons you name, Xard.

 

K: {Quietly, resigned, like she is about to perform an unpleasant duty}But there must always be a Darth Traya, one that holds the knowledge of betrayal.

 

Notice the remark: "duty". What duty? To take on the role of Darth Traya? Or isn't it the duty to strip Atris of illusion and show her who she had become? That's why Atris says "How did it happen?" (and then blames the Exile of betrayal).

 

For you

[vaxen83]

Somehow, that omission of Atris being related to Traya is hinted in Atris' lines like "I had thought she was waiting there for me.." and she goes on to say that Kreia does what she would have done which involves sacrificing her life through murder.

Edited June 14, 2006 by vaxen83

[Enha_Dyone]

Traya was about to be Atris at first but then they choose Kreia. That kind of sentence you wrote Zealen is maybe a residue of the first story they wanted to do...

[Zelean]

I accept.

 

But just because Kreia fights you in the end, that does not make her "Darth Traya". As far as I know "Darth Traya" is used in only those two instances, so it's either Atris or no one at all.

[Enha_Dyone]

Alright but if it was Atris...(at first)...how does Kreia know?? for the two others it obvious but for Atris I just can't see how she find out

Edited June 15, 2006 by Enha_Dyone

[Zelean]

Kreia of course knew Atris long before K2. But she hadn't known of Atris' plotting (fall) until she first arrived with the Exile to Telos Academy. Then the Kreia-Atton scene plays where much is explained.

If nothing else that Kreia reads people very well.

[Enha_Dyone]

Yes, but there is something really blury: why would Atris be called Traya...because she betrayed?....

It's much clearer with Kreia...Traya because she betraies (betrayed? I don't know, I'm still French :D) you at the end ("she has been betrayed in her heart and will betray again) ==> Kreia was betray by the dark lords and will betray you...what about Atris?

Edited June 15, 2006 by Enha_Dyone

[chris the jedi killer]

Darth Traya

[Zelean]

Kreia was not betrayed by Sion and Nihilus. Expelled from the circle, yes. Humiliated, yes. Betrayed at heart, no.

On the other hand, she was betrayed by the jedi council and someone who revealed her love affair in the first place (Kae hypothesis). That's why I say Kreia -was- Darth Traya.

 

Atris is just like Kreia. She's a librarian

[Accelerator]

Kreia was not betrayed by Sion and Nihilus. Expelled from the circle, yes. Humiliated, yes. Betrayed at heart, no.

On the other hand, she was betrayed by the jedi council and someone who revealed her love affair in the first place (Kae hypothesis). That's why I say Kreia -was- Darth Traya.

 

Atris is just like Kreia. She's a librarian

[Purgatorio]

CONSPIRACY

*teehee*

Yusanis must have been a complete stud if Kriea went against the code..oh and she planned the whole thing from the start to make Brianna the great rpt 1000 times grand mother of Luke.Yes and she's Bastilla's grand mother. The droids,the droids are a part of it Atton said they can't be trusted*twitch* Sorry....

End rant.

[Darth Aztec]

Maybe Kreia is Kae's sister, that's why she paused when explaining Kae and why she feels the way she does towards Brianna.

[Zelean]

As for Kreia, I don't think she's Arren Kae. I think Arren was younger than Kreia when she supposedly died in the Mandalorian wars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I hope you're not telling us you know Kreia's age.

 

In a game with content cut through and through I find it coincidental at best that Atton initiates 'how pretty she once not so long ago must have been' dialogue for no reason at all.

Same as that Telos Factory doorway

[Calax]

As for Kreia, I don't think she's Arren Kae. I think Arren was younger than Kreia when she supposedly died in the Mandalorian wars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I hope you're not telling us you know Kreia's age.

 

In a game with content cut through and through I find it coincidental at best that Atton initiates 'how pretty she once not so long ago must have been' dialogue for no reason at all.

Same as that Telos Factory doorway

[Accelerator]

Well, judging by what KOTOR 2 tells you (and also from what Wookiepedia says), Kreia was exiled during the Mandalorian Wars, because the masters thought her teachings were what caused Revan to go into battle.

 

Also remember that Atris thought the Exile turned to the Dark Side when he went to battle, disregarding the teachings of the Council. So, at this point, the Council thought all the Jedi that went to the Mandalorian Wars as Dark-sided, and likely beleived Kreia to be the reason.

 

If that was the case, then she likely went to war along with everyone else, or she tried to see where Revan had gone. At this point, the Jedi council never heard of her again, so they thought her dead, or Kreia was dead to the Jedi since she was no longer a Jedi in the Council's eyes.

[Zelean]

Is Wookiepedia officially supported? I'm asking because I don't know it, yet many of you obviously regard it highly.

 

The Council does not believe that everyone who went to the wars turned to the darkside. They certainly don't believe the Exile turned to the darkside, as you can see in the judgment scene. Atris had a mind of her own, though

[Jediphile]

Is Wookiepedia officially supported? I'm asking because I don't know it, yet many of you obviously regard it highly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Officially? No.

 

But IMHO it's still the best and most accurate source of Star Wars information you're going to find by far, because they people behind it are remarkably dedicated to getting things right or die trying.

[Xard]

Exactly. It holds much more info than SW's official database. I never use it. (used it once, then I was frustrated how limited info it gave)

 

You may trust wookiepedia mostly.

[Zelean]

Thanks!

 

I went to take a look at Wookieepedia, actually. I only read what one finds under Kreia, Kae and Atton. I liked the writing on Kreia's teachings a lot! I found several speculations missing which was disappointing somewhat, but what I was not happy about is that several opinions or should I say interpretations made it in as 'facts'. Facts like: Kreia regaining her connection with the Force through the Exile (huh?, what did I miss?), Kreia is not Kae etc. Seriously, it makes me wonder why one bothers to write several paragraphs, how Kreia == Kae argument is ongoing, yet gives them a title: "Mistaken identity".

 

Also, I was missing Kreia's fundamental quote. Since I like it so much, I'll remind you all of it.

 

{Softly, this is Kreia's core belief}:: Manipulation is done through propelling events... or selected ones... into motion. It is done through teaching, through example, and through conviction. ::

:: And the greatest of victories are not manipulations at all, but simply awakening others... to the truth of what you believe. Of hearing it echoed around you, in life. ::

[Jediphile]

Kreia lost her connection to the force when Nihilus and Sion cast her out of the Sith order, just the Exile did when the jedi kicked him out. Kreia used Exile to regain a connection to the force through his force-bonding ability but creating a powerful bond with him. That's why she's so weak and inexperienced at the beginning of the game in spite having been a jedi master, I guess.

 

That threw me too, at first, since I thought her lack of power was merely a consequence of the d20 system used in the KotOR games, but apparently Obsidian did work it into the plot - note how she mentions being stripped of power during the cutscene, where Nihilus and, especially, Sion kick the snot out of her...

 

As for Wookieepedia, I actually find the comment about "mistaken identity" to be fairly neutral in that sense that either people are wrong for thinking that Kreia is Kae or for thinking that she is not (since it's one or the other). And though I do think Kreia is Kae, we cannot say that with any authority, since there is no conclusive evidence to support the claim. I'll reserve the right speak out against anyone claiming the opposite to be true, however, since there is certainly circumstantial evidence to at least suggest it. I may not be able to prove that Kreia is Kae, but neither can anyone else prove that Kreia is not Kae.

[Zelean]

As for Wookieepedia, I actually find the comment about "mistaken identity" to be fairly neutral in that sense that either people are wrong for thinking that Kreia is Kae or for thinking that she is not (since it's one or the other).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's nothing wrong with her being both, but the way you put it, it makes sense to me now.

 

 

Kreia lost her connection to the force when Nihilus and Sion cast her out of the Sith order, just the Exile did when the jedi kicked him out. Kreia used Exile to regain a connection to the force through his force-bonding ability but creating a powerful bond with him. That's why she's so weak and inexperienced at the beginning of the game in spite having been a jedi master, I guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have one problem believing this hypothesis: timeframe. As far as I'm concerned Kreia was exiled at least a year before K2 starts. Until then she could have regained her connection with the force.

 

Besides, I would think techniques like masking identity require strong connection with the force. Also, Kreia says to the Exile at the end of all things, that teaching the Exile to feel, to listen to the force again was a mistake on her part.

 

I thought that she was weak and inexperienced at the beginning because she experienced near-death situation. It's too coincidental that she wakes up as soon as the Exile does, so the bond must have formed earlier on Harbinger/Peragus.