Who Kriea actually could be?

[DeathScepter]

Well To put this to rest, Both Kotors are just a dream in Kreia's mind.

 

 

So Kreia is everyone.

[alanschu]

No, I didn't. I base the assumption (and it is one) on me. I'm currently going back to school for an associates, and hoping eventually a BS in Computer Science (IT/Programming) and one of my cores is a history class. The same history class everyone has to take, blah blah, you know the drill. I am the top of the curve in my class, yet without my notes and a lot of quiet time to study, I would lose a lot of details. When we did a recent debate on Reconstruction I relied heavily on my notes both for my side and quick jot downs to rebutt, because I would have forgotten points in the five minutes I had to wait. So for Mical to remember the last part of Revan's training, and his first master (who more recently he suppossedly visited with) would fit entirely into what I would expect. Give you another example. I can in reverse chronological order tell you the last ten Presidents, and the first three. Other than Lincoln and Hayes, I couldn't tell you most of 4-30. Get the point?

 

I already acknowledged the reference to human memory. I have taken psychology courses on human learning....no need to lecture me about it. But there's also 6 year old girls that can list off every president. What you say makes sense, if Revan had 50 masters. Considering having more than 1 is exceptionally uncommon, having more than Mical comments is even more exceptional.

 

 

If his list is indeed in reverse chronological order, I think it's a bit of a stretch that the name preceding Kae was not the trainer immediately after her

 

Your wording here confruses me a bit. There was no name listed by him after Kae. She is the very last name he lists-

Disciple- "Master Vandar, Zhar, Dorak, Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars."

So I'm going to ask you to rephrase as I did Jediphile a short time back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is no reason not to assume that the name mentioned immediately after Kae, was not Revan's trainer immediately after Kae (i.e. Dorak was after Kae). This is assuming the list is in reverse chronological order. Though during a talk between Mical and Kreia, he doesn't remember the trainer after Kae. So either the list isn't actually in reverse chronological order (is it mentioned that it actually is, or are you making a supposition?), or Kreia did her memory work (as BW indicated).

 

I highly doubt Mical forgot because there were many trainers. The guy can go on for hours about pretty much anything. It's not like he's just taking a history class...the guy is a scholar that has actively researched the topic for an extensive period of time, given how he can tell you all about it just off the top of his head when you meet him on Dantooine.

 

I still say you're manipulating the facts just to support your expectations.

[Jediphile]

There is no reason not to assume that the name mentioned immediately after Kae, was not Revan's trainer immediately after Kae (i.e. Dorak was after Kae).  This is assuming the list is in reverse chronological order.  Though during a talk between Mical and Kreia, he doesn't remember the trainer after Kae.  So either the list isn't actually in reverse chronological order (is it mentioned that it actually is, or are you making a supposition?), or Kreia did her memory work (as BW indicated).

 

I highly doubt Mical forgot because there were many trainers.  The guy can go on for hours about pretty much anything.  It's not like he's just taking a history class...the guy is a scholar that has actively researched the topic for an extensive period of time, given how he can tell you all about it just off the top of his head when you meet him on Dantooine.

 

I still say you're manipulating the facts just to support your expectations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well the exact quote is...

 

 

Disciple: "Revan sought out many other teachers to learn certain techniques. I do not recall who Revan's master was... strange. As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that.And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had.And such teachings and their teachers is why I harbor doubts, why I wonder if something is missing from the Jedi code."

 

So no question - Kae trained Revan, when he was a padawan, and then Revan was trained by that master Disciple can't remember. Unless you doubt Disciple's words, that's a fact.

[BattleCookiee]

Query (maybe related...guess not) is the "as she had" refering to Kae or "the master after Kae"?

Edited March 2, 2006 by BattleCookiee

[alanschu]

Though there's no indication in that particular quote that she was the first.

 

Though, unless Revan truly did have an absolutely insane number of masters, wouldn't the Disciple err and say that Dorak was after Kae, as he does mention him in reverse chronological order at a different point?

 

EDIT: Wookiee...I was thinking the same thing.

 

It's an ambiguous 'she,' but if he does not remember the trainer, then the she would likely mean Kae. That's how I read it.

Edited March 2, 2006 by alanschu

[BattleCookiee]

Then that would imply Kae WAS a student of Kreia too...

[Jediphile]

Though there's no indication in that particular quote that she was the first.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"As a padawan..." would seem to suggest otherwise...

 

Though, unless Revan truly did have an absolutely insane number of masters, wouldn't the Disciple err and say that Dorak was after Kae, as he does mention him in reverse chronological order at a different point?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The other quote you refer to is this:

 

Disciple: "Many of the Jedi Council trained Exar Kun, Ulic... Revan and Malak. How could they not see the danger they posed? And if they could not......perhaps there was some essential part of their teachings that was flawed. Something beyond the Jedi Code that they were missing. Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars. Towards the end of his training, he sought out many to learn techniques.It is said that he returned to his first master at the end of his training, in order to learn how he might best leave the order."

 

I make no pretenses about knowing whether that list is in reverse chronological order, but I think the quote I posted before suggests that Kae was the first, both because of the "as a padawan" comment and because it is very clear that she came before that master the Disciple can't remember.

 

EDIT: Wookiee...I was thinking the same thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I actually don't a clue who might be referred to here... It might be a reference to Kreia having also sought out her old master, whoever that was, to learn how to leave the order... But that is pure conjecture.

 

It's an ambiguous 'she,' but if he does not remember the trainer, then the she would likely mean Kae.  That's how I read it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'd agree with that, which to me is another clue pointing to Kreia being Kae, since she also had Revan as a padawan, and eventually had him return to her to learn how to leave the order.

[Masta Revan]

Have you ever thought that Revan would still know her name cause that used to be her old master? Or did she change it before Revan?

[alanschu]

It's still ambiguous, because Revan had multiple Masters. Could he not have been trained by many different people while a Padawan?

 

It seems as though the Disciple is confused too. Kae apparently trained Revan until she was exiled, but according to the disciple also trained Revan until she left for the Wars.

 

I'd agree with that, which to me is another clue pointing to Kreia being Kae, since she also had Revan as a padawan, and eventually had him return to her to learn how to leave the order.

 

Not necessarily. You could just as easily make a conclusion that, like Kae, Revan went back to his first trainer to learn how to leave. Unless you're saying that Kae went back to herself, which just sounds silly.

[BattleCookiee]

It seems as though the Disciple is confused too.  Kae apparently trained Revan until she was exiled, but according to the disciple also trained Revan until she left for the Wars.

 

Yes. All so funny.

 

Kae had Brianne for 10 years when she was exiled; meaning she would have fighted with Yusaris and such and knew him that time. If so why does Revan NOT know Yusaris even if meeting him as Padawan? Unless Revan was no longer a padawan ofcourse.

 

And after her exile Kae joined her FORMER padawan into the Mandalorian Wars...

[Jediphile]

It seems as though the Disciple is confused too.  Kae apparently trained Revan until she was exiled, but according to the disciple also trained Revan until she left for the Wars.

 

Yes. All so funny.

 

Kae had Brianne for 10 years when she was exiled; meaning she would have fighted with Yusaris and such and knew him that time. If so why does Revan NOT know Yusaris even if meeting him as Padawan? Unless Revan was no longer a padawan ofcourse.

 

And after her exile Kae joined her FORMER padawan into the Mandalorian Wars...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, the quote really just says that Kae trained Revan before she left for the war. It doesn't say that she continuously did so until she left. As for Brianna, remember that Revan was one of the most respected and idolized young jedi of those days - if he had known of her "disgrace", he might have reported it to the council himself. So she probably chose to keep it secret even from him.

[BattleCookiee]

You mean like Obi-Wan not knowing about Anakin&Padme?

 

Hell, how CAN one hide a pregnancy, eh?

[Jediphile]

You mean like Obi-Wan not knowing about Anakin&Padme?

 

Hell, how CAN one hide a pregnancy, eh?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities *some* consider to be... unnatural..." :D

[BattleCookiee]

If you can use the Dark Side to keep looking the same as ever even when being pregnant one wonders why all these DS-ers could become so ugly

[Jediphile]

Well, Palpatine/Sidious apparently used his sith powers to mask his more bestial appearance, and Kreia definitely used her's to manipulate the Disciple's mind. If she can do that, then making others "overlook" her pregnancy seems relatively uncomplicated somehow...

[Dyan]

Another possiblity is that Disciple's words were not scripted quite right. Perhaps it was overlooked or mistyped or something. *shrug*.

 

Then again, Disciple could be wrong. They all could be.

[alanschu]

Another possiblity is that Disciple's words were not scripted quite right. Perhaps it was overlooked or mistyped or something. *shrug*.

 

Then again, Disciple could be wrong. They all could be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well, we can't speculate on that. We can only go on what we were given.

[The Great Phantom]

Or, Kae could have been a student of Kreia.

 

(I'm still not convinced of either way, although there are still two main arguements: Yes, No.)

[Calax]

don't forget that one may still refer to onesself as the padawan of master X. So playing with language you could your self the constant padawan of several masters.

[Guest The Architect]

But wait a minute. Can somebody tell me if Kae was Revan's 'FIRST' Master? Because if she is, Kreia said that she was Revan's 'FIRST' Master which would imply that Kreia is Kae, unless of course Kreia is lying, but I dobut it on this occassion.

Edited March 3, 2006 by The Architect

[BattleCookiee]

There is no certainty about that.

 

Would you really think a 30+ pages topic or this 18(?) pages one would exist if we knew that?

[Calax]

I did find a topic on lucas arts where sombody said that kreia was bastila...

[Guest The Architect]

I did find a topic on lucas arts where sombody said that kreia was bastila...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah I heard about that garbage too. It's been proven millions of times that Kreia IS NOT Bastila, they are two completely different people. People who beleive that crap do not know how to function their brain, IF they have one.

[alanschu]

I did find a topic on lucas arts where sombody said that kreia was bastila...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I have said that on these boards.

[SSgtSniper]

Alan, troll the boards? I'm shocked and amazed.