Dark Moth Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 The Force is one of the reasons why KotOR series are far too easy. The Force is the problem. It is too overpowered. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're the problem. If it weren't for you, KOTOR 2 would be better.
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) How so? I had nothing to do with KotOR 2's development or subsequent lack of support after release. Nor was I one of the buggers kicking and screaming for them to hurry up and release it. In fact I would have been more than content that KotOR 2 was never made and Obsidian placed their talents on an a better setting than Star Wars. Even the Forgotten Realms is better than Star Wars. Edited January 3, 2006 by Judge Hades
Guest The Architect Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 Yeah, I'm going to stop posting my story ideas even though I have it all planned. I mean, in my story, you still have the flexibility of what could of happened in KOTOR and KOTOR II depedning on Revan's alignment and gender and Obsidian's idea of mentioning history through dialogue after you decided Revan's gender and alignment and cameo apperenes (necessary cameos) was a good idea. I had a set story line (just like KOTOR and KOTOR II did) and the only thing that would change is which cameo appearences are made, who's alive, who's dead and what side people are on. In reality though, I'm just 16 years old, what I wrote was simply fan fiction, I'm not a professional writer and I doubt that LucasArts or Obsidian would ever want to discuss with me in detail my ideas. And no, PlanoSkywalker, I'm not royalty in disguise or have nay connections to LucasArts or Obsidian, I'm simply just a fan of the KOTOR Series who has ideas for a third Knights of the Old Republic and wants to see it get made. And I think the reason why nothing is being said about a KOTOR III being made yet is because the developers are having a difficult time coming up with a story that will please most people ans how to handle the Revan/Exile situations without things becoming too complex.
Dark Moth Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) How so? I had nothing to do with KotOR 2's development or subsequent lack of support after release. Nor was I one of the buggers kicking and screaming for them to hurry up and release it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That was a joke. Seriously, the force is not the problem. For starters it depends on what force powers you choose. In K1, even powers like force storm were not as powerful as to kill an entire room of enemies, especially on the end levels. K2's problem was that it was much easier, even without the force. My weapon master could take out an enemy with one or two hits with his lightsaber, even toward the end. The force is not the problem, finding the right balance is. And as I said, the force is part of KOTOR, so it belongs there. I do agree with you on them not making K2, but for different reasons. Reason #1: K1 didn't even need a sequel. Edited January 3, 2006 by Mothman
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) K1 left no room for a sequel. It was pretty well self contained. You only make sequels of games in which the original left room for a sequel to begin with. Like BG to BG 2. If there is going to be a sequel I want to use my character from the first part to the next. If I was to design KotOR I would have designed it from the begining to be a trilogy, letting the player use the same main character from KotOR 1 to 2, to 3. I would also kept the maximum level at 20 and have the first game go from levels 1 to 8, 7 to 15 for the second game, and 14 to 20th for the last part. Edited January 3, 2006 by Judge Hades
Skywalker Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 K1 left no room for a sequel. It was pretty well self contained. You only make sequels of games in which the original left room for a sequel to begin with. Like BG to BG 2. If there is going to be a sequel I want to use my character from the first part to the next. If I was to design KotOR I would have designed it from the begining to be a trilogy, letting the player use the same main character from KotOR 1 to 2, to 3. I would also kept the maximum level at 20 and have the first game go from levels 1 to 8, 7 to 15 for the second game, and 14 to 20th for the last part. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> also related, the prestige class thing really just needs to burn and die, because it is just a fancy name for "you will now pwn ANYthing you touch".
Haitoku Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 K1 left no room for a sequel. It was pretty well self contained. You only make sequels of games in which the original left room for a sequel to begin with. Like BG to BG 2. If there is going to be a sequel I want to use my character from the first part to the next. If I was to design KotOR I would have designed it from the begining to be a trilogy, letting the player use the same main character from KotOR 1 to 2, to 3. I would also kept the maximum level at 20 and have the first game go from levels 1 to 8, 7 to 15 for the second game, and 14 to 20th for the last part. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why not just start them over at level 1 and change the dynamics of the game so that it works.
Skywalker Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 K1 left no room for a sequel. It was pretty well self contained. You only make sequels of games in which the original left room for a sequel to begin with. Like BG to BG 2. If there is going to be a sequel I want to use my character from the first part to the next. If I was to design KotOR I would have designed it from the begining to be a trilogy, letting the player use the same main character from KotOR 1 to 2, to 3. I would also kept the maximum level at 20 and have the first game go from levels 1 to 8, 7 to 15 for the second game, and 14 to 20th for the last part. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why not just start them over at level 1 and change the dynamics of the game so that it works. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i'm not judge hades but my answer is that it is a TRILOGY if you read carefully.
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) Why not just start them over at level 1 and change the dynamics of the game so that it works. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You do not change the dynamics of the game setting, period. It needs to be constant, consistant, and balanced. Also as a player I would feel quite cheated if I was forced to play my character at level 1 again after all that I put him or her through. Edited January 3, 2006 by Judge Hades
Haitoku Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 So what? They would still be different games (or are we talking expansions?). No need to do something stupid, like wrap up levels and stats into the mix. Just start them at level 1 after each game and change the way the force powers/feats level up. Example... First game you get Shock > Lightning > Storm Second game you won't have the option to start out with "Shock." Instead the the first "lightning" type power would be "Force Lightning" then go from there. That way it shows that time has passed and the characters have grown.
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) No, we are talking about using the same character in each 60 hour game. Not an expansion, though you could use expansions to bridge the games. We are not talking about a new character in each game. You don't change the rules in the middle of the campaign, which the trilogy would represent. Edited January 3, 2006 by Judge Hades
Skywalker Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 No, we are talking about using the same character in each 60 hour game. Not an expansion, though you could use expansions to bridge the games. We are not talking about a new character in each game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> what you are trying to say is that you want to make an epic quest
Haitoku Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 No, we are talking about using the same character in each 60 hour game. Not an expansion, though you could use expansions to bridge the games. We are not talking about a new character in each game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> All right, I understand. I vote no on your idea though. Mainly because combat like KOTORs could not keep me interested for 180 hours. Especially if we are talking about three game series, that's 2-4 years in between each one. I would expect the combat at the very least to evolve, that would mean new way of learning force powers, feats, skills. Having your character start at level 1 after every game would be ideal for this situation.
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 If that is how you are interpeting it then yes. If I was designing a Star Wars CRPG, if based on the d20 System, I would use the rules as closely as possible. Having both Wound and Vitality and having Vitality be drained when using Force powers. Permanent death for characters and a story that adapts itself for such things.I would also up the number of characters on the field to 4 (including the PC) and have a more BG style combat system. Also there would be no nerfing of the bad guys. Oh yes, there will be thinking involved in combat if you wanted to survive.
Skywalker Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 If that is how you are interpeting it then yes. If I was designing a Star Wars CRPG, if based on the d20 System, I would use the rules as closely as possible. Having both Wound and Vitality and having Vitality be drained when using Force powers. Permanent death for characters and a story that adapts itself for such things.I would also up the number of characters on the field to 4 (including the PC) and have a more BG style combat system. Also there would be no nerfing of the bad guys. Oh yes, there will be thinking involved in combat if you wanted to survive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> you do know how much code would go into the battle engine alone, that would be 4 dvds instead of 4 cds
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 Having your character start at level 1 after every game would be ideal for this situation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thing is I would implement the real way how the Force works in d20 and not haphazard job that Bioware and Obsidian used. If I did you that system in this manner you wouldn't have access to the higher force abilities because some have level limits. I believe you had to be level 18 before getting Force Storm. There would be no way for the PC to gain that ability in the first or second game.
Haitoku Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 Also there would be no nerfing of the bad guys. Oh yes, there will be thinking involved in combat if you wanted to survive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, this makes it sound a bit better. Seems like all the Dark Jedi forgot how to use force powers in the second game. Btw, why the hell does every d20 game's level cap have to be 20?
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 you do know how much code would go into the battle engine alone, that would be 4 dvds instead of 4 cds <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It would be the same basic combat engine used in NWN 2.
Skywalker Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 Also there would be no nerfing of the bad guys. Oh yes, there will be thinking involved in combat if you wanted to survive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, this makes it sound a bit better. Seems like all the Dark Jedi forgot how to use force powers in the second game. Btw, why the hell does every d20 game's level cap have to be 20? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> cause if you went epic you would have to where a shirt that says if own everything
Judge Hades Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 Btw, why the hell does every d20 game's level cap have to be 20? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The rules governing 21 and above just doesn't work and breaks down. That is the drawback of the d20 System.
Haitoku Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 Btw, why the hell does every d20 game's level cap have to be 20? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The rules governing 21 and above just doesn't work and breaks down. That is the drawback of the d20 System. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't pretent to actually no anything about it... Would that be why KOTOR 2's combat seems completely cheap and broken past level 20?
Skywalker Posted January 3, 2006 Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) Btw, why the hell does every d20 game's level cap have to be 20? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The rules governing 21 and above just doesn't work and breaks down. That is the drawback of the d20 System. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> if you are a fighter it does (work that is) but in rpgs that are done the right way the first time Edited January 3, 2006 by Skywalker
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