The Religion Thread

[Dark Moth]

I do, but will politely insist that I believe in god and you don't, because my god exists.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

See, now we have another quagmire. How do you know you're right? How do you know you're God exists, or that it's even a she? What evidence do you have of it's existance? It's more faith on your part, just as it is on mine.

 

And I of course will politely insist that you don't believe in God and I do, because my God exists. And my God can beat up your God.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I do, but will politely insist that I believe in god and you don't, because my god exists.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

See, now we have another quagmire. How do you know you're right? How do you know you're God exists, or that it's even a she? What evidence do you have of it's existance? It's more faith on your part, just as it is on mine.

 

And I of course will politely insist that you don't believe in God and I do, because my God exists. And my God can beat up your God.

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Well in the case of Gaia your standing on her.

[Gabrielle]

I think God wants us to remember him and glorify him of course.  Would you be a little sad if you created a world and nobody there respected or remembered you?  But at the same time, I think God wants us to learn ourselves, to understand things, and to be able to better ourselves and the world around us.

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The irony of that is that if we were still a pagan society we would live in a much nicer world.

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You don't know how true that is.

[Reveilled]

no... Eris.

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Not familiar with Eris, maybe by a different name.

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Eris is her Greek name, her Latin one is Discordia. Goddess of Chaos and Discord.

Her not being invited to a party led to the Trojan War.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You don't know how true that is. 

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As a matter of fact I do

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Eris is her Greek name, her Latin one is Discordia.  Goddess of Chaos and Discord.

Her not being invited to a party led to the Trojan War.

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Ah she's the apple giver.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Dunno if you look at the world I'd say she's doing pretty well.

[Dark Moth]

Bah. Gaia let Zeus and the Gods take over. She isn't so great. <_<

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2005 by Mothman

[Reveilled]

I do, but will politely insist that I believe in god and you don't, because my god exists.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

See, now we have another quagmire. How do you know you're right? How do you know you're God exists, or that it's even a she? What evidence do you have of it's existance? It's more faith on your part, just as it is on mine.

 

And I of course will politely insist that you don't believe in God and I do, because my God exists. And my God can beat up your God.

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Hence the "".

 

Of course, my religion is based on faith, I accept that. And unless I'm directly facing assertions of faith as fact by someone of another belief, or being less than serious, I generally avoid stating my beliefs as such. When all the arguments are pretty much done, though, and it comes down to either saying "I'm right and you're wrong" or "Well, either of us might be right, so I guess we'll have to leave it at that", then if someone does the former I'm more than happy to jump in with statements to the contrary, if only to demonstrate how futile they are to debate. Unless of course (as is the case here), where the statement is not intended as an actual reasonable argument and is really just agreeing to disagree.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Bah.  Gaia let Zeus and the Gods take over.  She isn't so great.  <_<

 

 

 

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Cronos

 

It wasnt a case of taking over, shes on a whole other level to a deity.

 

Oh Goddess, Source of Gods and Mortals,

All-Fertile, All-Destroying Gaia,

Mother of All, Who brings forth the bounteous fruits and flowers,

All variety, Maiden who anchors the eternal world in our own,

Immortal, Blessed, crowned with every grace,

Deep bosomed Earth, sweet plains and fields fragrant grasses in the nurturing rains,

Around you fly the beauteous stars, eternal and divine,

Come, Blessed Goddess, and hear the prayers of Your children,

And make the increase of the fruits and grains your constant care, with the fertile seasons Your handmaidens,

Draw near, and bless your supplicants.

 

And just for the record Gaia assisted Cronos and later Zeus she's kind of pivitol to the changes in the order of gods.

Edited December 9, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Blank]

Reveilled, have you even read your favourite passage in the Bible?

 

Romans 9:18-22

"So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"

On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?"

 

of course, i don't expect you to understand it, because i also believe in this passage that says a whole lot about you guys (replace Greeks with your name)...

 

1 Corinthians 1:18-25.

 

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;

the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

[Child of Flame]

I believe in Cthulu, my dark god of the abyss.

 

They only thing to worry about during the end of the world is who shall be devoured first.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I believe in Cthulu, my dark god of the abyss. 

 

They only thing to worry about during the end of the world is who shall be devoured first.

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Maybe if we threw him a really fat person :D

 

Actually I know a couple of the mythos spells.

[Gabrielle]

Bow down to the great Hindu Goddess Kali

[Blank]

Bow down to the great Hindu Goddess Kali

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NEVER!!!!!!!

 

Edited December 9, 2005 by Blank

[Reveilled]

Reveilled, have you even read your favourite passage in the Bible?

 

Romans 9:18-22

"So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"

On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?"

 

of course, i don't expect you to understand it, because i also believe in this passage that says a whole lot about you guys (replace Greeks with your name)...

 

1 Corinthians 1:18-25.

 

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

  "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;

      the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

From the Honest Book of Truth:

 

Joe 14:1-2

 

And Malaclypse did begin his speech thus: "Oh ye who do not see the light of Eris, or the light of freedom, and choose instead to follow the lies of greyface! Ye are dumb!"

 

My holy book says in 2 verses what yours takes 7 to do. My god is more efficient than your god. Which, considering that my god is a god of Chaos, doesn't say much for your god.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Reveilled

[Blank]

From the Honest Book of Truth:

 

Joe 14:1-2

 

And Malaclypse did begin his speech thus: "Oh ye who do not see the light of Eris, or the light of freedom, and choose instead to follow the lies of greyface!  Ye are dumb!"

 

My holy book says in 2 verses what yours takes 7 to do.  My god is more efficient than your god.  Which, considering that my god is a god of Chaos, doesn't say much for your god.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...

 

 

 

My God is love (1 john 4:. and we (christians) love Him because He first loved us. (1 john 4:19, NKJV)

 

chaos, discord... sounds unharmonious... by definition it is "unharmonious"...

 

The passage you gave talks about "greyface". who the heck is a greyface? That doesn't apply at all to me. and of course you think the Holy Bible is inefficient and "dumb", the Bible even says you would think that: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

 

My God's foolishness is wiser than your wisdom, and My God's weakness is stronger than your strength. (1 cor. 1:25)

 

dang that is pretty wise and strong.

 

But no hard feelings. i am just presenting my beliefs. i in no way at all hate you. i am commanded by my God to love you. So i shall do that.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Blank

[Blank]

oh and one time somebody asked why i use the Bible. it is because it gives more credence to what i am saying, i.e. it's in an old old book studied by many many people, and accepted by many smart people and rejected by many smart people. otherwise it would be like i am coming out with my own thoughts (which are welcome in this thread) and telling you guys them. To me a random person's thoughts on religion aren't as weighty as an integral piece of literature in our society.

[WITHTEETH]

Thats fine, im not saying what you believe in is not true. I only mean to challenge you. If you really intrested in Jesus's life i recommend you might compare Jesus with Siddhartha, and also with Caesar, there are remarkable parrallels. 

May the force be with you!

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thanks. if i was never challenged, what good would my faith be?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you challenge your faith by looking for reasons to believe or disbelieve? To look for reasons to believe is really just reinforcing your religious belief. This is not thinking outsied of the box.

Edited December 9, 2005 by WITHTEETH

[Reveilled]

From the Honest Book of Truth:

 

Joe 14:1-2

 

And Malaclypse did begin his speech thus: "Oh ye who do not see the light of Eris, or the light of freedom, and choose instead to follow the lies of greyface!  Ye are dumb!"

 

My holy book says in 2 verses what yours takes 7 to do.  My god is more efficient than your god.  Which, considering that my god is a god of Chaos, doesn't say much for your god.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...

 

 

 

My God is love (1 john 4:. and we (christians) love Him because He first loved us. (1 john 4:19, NKJV)

 

chaos, discord... sounds unharmonious... by definition it is "unharmonious"...

 

The passage you gave talks about "greyface". who the heck is a greyface? That doesn't apply at all to me. and of course you think the Holy Bible is inefficient and "dumb", the Bible even says you would think that: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

 

My God's foolishness is wiser than your wisdom, and My God's weakness is stronger than your strength. (1 cor. 1:25)

 

dang that is pretty wise and strong.

 

But no hard feelings. i am just presenting my beliefs. i in no way at all hate you. i am commanded by my God to love you. So i shall do that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Greyface was the man from whom stems the idea that the universe, religion and god should be as boring as he, and that we should dedicate our lives to something other than enjoying ourselves. His closest analogue in your mythology would be Abraham (except, of course, that Abraham is instead portrayed as good in the religions that claim him, in a similar way that Prometheus/The Serpent is good in Greek mythology but evil in Christianity).

 

Fred 23:12-15

 

And Greyface claimed that our world was not real, but a test constructed by the deity. And when the people asked him then about this deity, many great claims did he make of its power. And so did the children lament further about the loss of their spirit.

 

And also, I don't hate you either. But I too can quote scripture until the cows come home, and I doubt it will have any effect on your beliefs. Do you expect that I will read what you quote and come to some revelation that you have the correct notion of god?

 

But here is my own attempt at divine revelation. Given how long your quotes are, I think I'm entitled to one of my own. This is the parable of the Free Hot Dog:

"Many years ago, when the son of the goddess was walking around his Imperial Capital of San Francisco, he became endowed with a righteous and almighty hunger. Seeking to satiate the holy hole in his stomach, he did enter an estabishment which did sell the foods of the common man. And the Emperor did strike up a bargain with the man at the counter and said "My Good man, would you give your Emperor a hamburger?", whereupon the spotty faced teenager did reply "Of course, your majesty," and did present him with a burger, saying "That shall be ten cents, my Lord." The Emperor did begin to look sad, and said unto the boy at the counter "Alas, my young subject, I have but five cents with me." The boy, not wishing his emperor to go hungry, did then present him with a hot dog, saying "Well, your grace, the hot dog is only five cents." At this, the Emperor did become solemn, and suddenly did he take the hot dog and toss it in a most righteous manner out of the establishment. Taking the burger in hand, he said unto the boy "The hamburger is five cents, the hot dog is free." And so did the boy become enlightened."

 

I hope that helped.

[Blank]

Do you challenge your faith by looking for reasons to believe or disbelieve? To look for reasons to believe is really just reinforcing your religious belief.  This is not thinking outside of the box.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, i looked at Siddhartha and Caesar, and they certainly did not seem like Jesus at all.

 

#1 Jesus claims to be the Messiah, the Saviour sent from God.

Caesar does not claim to be one divinely sent. Siddhartha says that being enlightened has nothing to do with deity, but that anyone can become enlightened with enough thought. He emphasised that he was not a god.

 

#2 Jesus does miracles... many of them. too numerous to write (John 21:25).

Siddhartha does not do miracles. Caesar does not do miracles.

 

#3 Jesus offers eternal salvation to all who repent and accept it.

Siddhartha offers the loss of one's self into something that is basically undefined until you get there. Caesar... was an emperor...

 

#4 Jesus was born of a virgin.

Siddhartha and Caesar were born like everyone else

 

#5 Jesus basically kept His ministry centralised around Capernaum.

Siddhartha traveled all over india with his beliefs, Caesar ruled an empire.

 

EDIT: and i am barely educated about Siddhartha and Caesar, so if i am wrong please point it out and i'll happily edit it or take back the part that is wrong.

 

And also, I don't hate you either. But I too can quote scripture until the cows come home, and I doubt it will have any effect on your beliefs. Do you expect that I will read what you quote and come to some revelation that you have the correct notion of god?

Yes and below is why \/

 

Hebrews 4:12=

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

 

and i enjoyed your free hot dog story. i think the moral is either that paying for things doesn't matter or that emperors don't abide by their own rules (jk)

Edited December 9, 2005 by Blank

[Vashanti]

Actually, in the original Hebrew, Mary was not called a "virgin," but rather a "virtuous woman." It was a mistranslation.

 

Similarly, "Lucifer" is not a name of the Devil (who didn't officially exist until 325 AD, when the Council of Trent spelled him out); "Lucifer" refers to a mistranslated passage about the morning star, the last star to be visible during the sunrise. It was merely a metaphor for how "the devil" or the Opposer wanted to shine brightly like God.

 

There have been numerous, numerous re-translations and thus mistranslations of the original holy texts, not to mention interpretations. It's no wonder there are so many varying sects within the Christian faith.

 

In the year 1000 A.D., Christians sat around waiting for the Rapture. In the year 2000 A.D., the fervor was not nearly as manic as it was described back then, but people still spoke of the Rapture coinciding with the new millenia.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Vashanti

[tarna]

#3- I said humans are lazy because i was referring to the fact that some people know they are probably not right but they don't attempt to change that. to me, that is disturbing, but whether it is because they are lazy or for another reason, i don't know. i just attributed it to laziness because that was the most logical reason i could think of.

When I said the 'Right Faith', I was speaking about not following whatever faith was 'in vogue' at the time. Kinda like our politicians ( pandering, road-kill eating maggots that would bend over for a pack of cigarettes ) and their morals du jour. Many of today's Pagans refer to it as 'taking the path less travelled'.

#6- if you thought you were "right" and you didn't force your thoughts upon people, then you either think that forcing your thoughts won't help get your point across, or you aren't very convicted of your belief. so assuming most christians are insensitive, we can infer that they at least are very convicted that they are "right". however, i am not limiting the reasons people have for doing things into two different choices, but i think in general this is the case.

Or it's simply not important enough to go around proselityzing your belief system. What works for one may not work for another. The term 'pluralism' comes to mind here.

The irony of that is that if we were still a pagan society we would live in a much nicer world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't give too much credit to the Pagani. As I remember, it was the Roman Pagans that let the lions snack on those pesky, upstart Christians.

Asatru also comes to mind.

 

BTW-Nice bunch of posts guys. Discussions like this that inform but don't turn into pissing matches are always fun to read.

[Blank]

Actually, in the original Hebrew, Mary was not called a "virgin," but rather a "virtuous woman."  It was a mistranslation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that is why the original hebrew word's translation makes no sense when looking at the context. Like, matthew 1:18-19, "This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly."

Yeah, "virgin" is mistranslated there since it is used so many times (i am being facetious IT IS NOT USED THERE).

 

even if one of the words is "virgin" in one of the passages, that doesn't explain all the other parts about the passage that define the fact that Mary was a "virgin".

 

i would say "please, i would appreciate it if you researched for a few seconds about what you are claiming to be 'facts'." however, that would make me sound very full of myself and i don't even know for sure if what you said is wrong.

 

What i do know is that you led us to believe Jesus was not born of a virgin when He actually was...

[WITHTEETH]

I said there are parallels, not clones.

Buddha and Jesus were both the catalyst of their own birth, meaning they were their own fathers.

Both had a star on the day of their birth. Greeted with wise men and foretold to be a great king of nations.

They both had 3 trials by evil, Jesus w/ lucifer and Buddha by Mara.

They both instead of becoming kings, lived the ascetic life.

Both did miracles and walked on water.

Both had central themes on comapssion on were missionaries.

Both came to help save mankind from suffering.

The cult surrounding Jesus Christ, son of God and originator of Christianity appeared during the second century. Early historians, however, never mentioned Jesus and even until now there has been no actual proof of his existence. Julius Caesar, son of Venus and founder of the Roman Empire, was elevated to the status of Imperial God, Divus Julius, after his violent death. The cult that surrounded him dissolved as Christianity surfaced.

 

Carotta's new evidence leads to such an overwhelming amount of similarities between the biography of Caesar and the story of Jesus that coincidence can be ruled out.

- Both Caesar and Jesus start their rising careers in neighboring states in the north: Gallia and Galilee.

- Both have to cross a fateful river: the Rubicon and the Jordan. Once across the rivers, they both come across a patron/rival: Pompeius and John the Baptist, and their first followers, who get there heads handed to them on a plate, Pompeius to Ceasar, John to Jesus: Antonius and Curio on the one hand and Peter and Andrew on the other.

- Both are continually on the move, finally arriving at the capital, Rome and Jerusalem, where they at first triumph, yet subsequently undergo their passion.

- Both have good relationships with women and have a special relationship with one particular woman, Caesar with Cleopatra and Jesus with Magdalene.

- Both have encounters at night, Caesar with Nicomedes of Bithynia, Jesus with Nicodemus of Bethany.

- Both have an affinity to ordinary people-and both run afoul of the highest authorities: Caesar with the Senate, Jesus with the Sanhedrin.

- Both are contentious characters, but show praiseworthy clemency as well: the clementia Caesaris and Jesus' Love-thy-enemy.

- Both have a traitor: Brutus and Judas. And an assassin who at first gets away: the other Brutus and Barabbas. And one who washes his hands of it: Lepidus and Pilate.

- Both are accused of making themselves kings: King of the Romans and King of the Jews. Both are dressed in red royal robes and wear a crown on their heads: a laurel wreath and a crown of thorns.

- Both get killed: Caesar is stabbed with daggers(logunis'), Jesus is crucified, but with a stab wound in his side with a dagger(longunis).

- Jesus as well as Caesar hang on a cross. For a reconstruction of the crucifixion of Caesar, see:

Carotta Images

- Both die on the same respective dates of the year: Caesar on the Ides (15 th) of March, Jesus on the 15 th of Nisan.

- Both are deified posthumously: as Divus Iulius and as Jesus Christ.

Edited December 9, 2005 by WITHTEETH

[Archmonarch]

God gave us all a free will.  If he set up everything for us, why would there be any point to our existance?  We'd all be actors following a script.  Personally, I'd rather have that then be manipulated unknowingly by an outside force. 

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By creating the world with limitations, God limited the possible responses, thereby breaking the idea of 'free will.' After all, if he is omnipotent, to truly have free will, wouldnt everyone else need to be so as well?

 

Jesus is necessary for my worldview. if socrates was necessary for your worldview, then i would pity you, but i would still respect your views.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then you understand our feelings.

 

Do you know the truth to how god actually works, do you know how that entity actually thinks? No, thus god works in mysterious ways.

 

If everything is based on a first assumption then nothing is absolutely certain. If nothing is absolutely certain then everything is subjective. "Truth is subjectivity". Kierkagaard a danish christian philosopher said this.

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well, i don't think God's ways are mysterious. lol. i don't think God is wrong at all. i have said a few times before that God is the definition of "good" since He invented it and "sin" is all that is apart from Him. I believe that there is an absolute truth and that people interact with it on a subjective level. and when people agree on certain things and verify them over and over again then it is just as good as truth: i.e. the force of gravity. we don't know exactly what it is, but it seemingly happens to all of us, so we just accept it as a truth.

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Blank, you are perhaps one of the most arrogant deists I have ever met. You basically say "I can understand God, and have thus decided he is right. If you dont agree with me, you are wrong because I am right." It is a circular argument seemingly designed solely to prop up your ego: I am better than them because I have independently determined myself to be smarter and thus know what is right for them, therefore let me show them the "true path." How are you any better than the colonial Europeans who felt the need to teach the Africans through slavery, oppression, and murder?

 

If you truly followed Christianity, instead of the limited portions which appeal to your engrossed ego, you would not need to proselytize and would accept that everyone has their own journey to make. A true believer needs no one to constantly tell him he is right and good. To enforce your beliefs on others is merely to convince yourself of your virtue and superiority to the non-believers. After all, if they accept it, then it means something in there must make sense. It obviously has nothing to do with the threats of physical violence and eternal damnation. No, nothing at all.