SteveThaiBinh Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 "fairest nation on Earth" Sweden? "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I doubt Libby will get any jail time, even if he is found guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveThaiBinh Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I doubt Libby will get any jail time, even if he is found guilty. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why wouldn't he? Do you think the president would pardon him (if that's allowed)? A commentator on the BBC was suggesting 20+ years if he was found guilty on all charges. This is for perjury, after all. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 "fairest nation on Earth" Sweden? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You aren't wearing your US rose-coloured glasses. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveThaiBinh Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 "fairest nation on Earth" Sweden? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You aren't wearing your US rose-coloured glasses. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was wondering whether this was a quote, and where it was from. Interestingly, my US rose-coloured glasses have 'Made in China' on the frames. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 "Most favoured trading nation" status? OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Do you think the president would pardon him (if that's allowed)? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yes, it is allowed, unless he managed to get himself impeached and convicted as well. yes, i think he would pardon libby, but not till after the next election. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveThaiBinh Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 yes, it is allowed, unless he managed to get himself impeached and convicted as well. yes, i think he would pardon libby, but not till after the next election. That's a very odd power. I heard on the news that someone pardoned by Clinton in his last days is condemned in the latest UN Oil-for-Food report. If judges legislating from the bench is wrong (and it probably is), isn't politicians overturning sentences also wrong? It must be very frustrating for the Special Prosecutor to know that even if you're successful and this guy is sentenced for his crimes, he will likely get away with it anyway. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Steve, I'd like to introduce you to Money. Money, Steve. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Can I take Money home? :"> DENMARK! It appears that I have not yet found a sig to replace the one about me not being banned... interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf16 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Steve, I'd like to introduce you to Money. Money, Steve. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Short...Simple...Sweet. (w00t) I love your posts. And you're welcome to, Lucius, though don't be surprised when Money robs you blind, has a large convict beat you to within an inch of your life, and runs off with the local politician. I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows 'Cause I won't know the man that kills me and I don't know these men I kill but we all wind up on the same side 'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will. - Everlast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveThaiBinh Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Steve, I'd like to introduce you to Money. Money, Steve. Hello, Money. Welcome to our communist utopia. Try not to make a mess. I still don't understand why the authors of a fairly idealistic US constitution two hundred years ago would include the possibility of politicians pardoning convicted criminals. It just seems strange, given their apparent desire to keep the three branches separate on other issues. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Steve, I'd like to introduce you to Money. Money, Steve. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Short...Simple...Sweet. (w00t) I love your posts. And you're welcome to, Lucius, though don't be surprised when Money robs you blind, has a large convict beat you to within an inch of your life, and runs off with the local politician. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You mean like you did? DENMARK! It appears that I have not yet found a sig to replace the one about me not being banned... interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf16 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Steve, I'd like to introduce you to Money. Money, Steve. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Short...Simple...Sweet. (w00t) I love your posts. And you're welcome to, Lucius, though don't be surprised when Money robs you blind, has a large convict beat you to within an inch of your life, and runs off with the local politician. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You mean like you did? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Please, not in public. :"> I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows 'Cause I won't know the man that kills me and I don't know these men I kill but we all wind up on the same side 'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will. - Everlast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Please, not in public. :"> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Apologies. :"> DENMARK! It appears that I have not yet found a sig to replace the one about me not being banned... interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumquatq3 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Do you think the president would pardon him (if that's allowed)? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yes, it is allowed, unless he managed to get himself impeached and convicted as well. yes, i think he would pardon libby, but not till after the next election. taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Never do it. If he did, it would be HORRIBLE for the Republicans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Valerie Plame's nearly two-decade career at the CIA and the secret life she crafted to conceal it were blown when her identity was revealed by a newspaper columnist, her husband, Joe Wilson said in a CBS "60 Minutes" interview on Sunday. Wilson, a former career diplomat, said Plame, 42, was in shock when she saw her name and that of her fictitious employer published in a syndicated column by Robert Novak. "She felt like she'd been hit in the stomach. It took her breath away," Wilson said. "When he published her name-- it was very easy to unravel everything about her, her entire cover," Wilson said. "You live your cover." Asked whether she realized then that her career as a CIA undercover agent was over, Wilson said: "Absolutely. Sure. There was no doubt about it in her mind. And she wondered for what." Wilson contends that his wife's identity was deliberately revealed by the Bush administration to get back at him for publicly challenging U.S. prewar intelligence on Iraq. Vice President **** Cheney's former chief of staff Lewis Libby was indicted on Friday on obstruction of justice and perjury charges in the two-year-old investigation into who leaked Plame's identity. The CIA declined to comment, citing the ongoing legal process. Before the exposure, Plame's identity had been a well kept secret. Friends and even relatives were kept in the dark about her work, Wilson told "60 Minutes." "The day that Mr. Novak's article appeared, my sister-in-law turned to my brother and said, 'Do you think Joe knew?' So, not even my brother or my sister-in-law or any of my immediate family knew," Wilson said. Former CIA agent Jim Marcinkowski, now a city attorney in Royal Oak, Michigan, told "60 Minutes" it was "outrageous" that Plame had been exposed. "CIA people don't like cameras. We don't like publicity. We operate in the background as much as possible. So she's in a very, very uncomfortable spot," said Marcinkowski, who trained with Plame at the CIA. "Her career has been ended, Marcinkowski said when asked about the damage to Plame, who is the mother of 5-year-old twins. Wilson said his wife quickly recovered after the initial shock of having her identity compromised "and started making lists of what she had to do to ensure that her assets, her projects, her programs and her operations were protected." He said there had been some "specific threats" and that he and his wife had discussed security with various agencies, but he could not say anything further. The Washington Post reported that Plame, the daughter of an Air Force colonel and a teacher, was recruited by the CIA at the age of 22, shortly after graduating from Pennsylvania State University. She was trained at a CIA facility simply known as "The Farm" near Williamsburg, Virginia and was in the 1985-86 class of CIA officers. The newspaper quoted Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst and acquaintance of Plame's who was in her officer training class as saying: "For all intents and purposes out at the CIA, she's like a leper ... she's radioactive." http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051031/ts_nm/bush_leak_plame_dc Just for trivia's sake, I went to school near Camp Peary, "the farm." Doesn't look like anything special from the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 It's so much like a B-grade Hollywood script that it is still difficult to beleive it actually happened! Steve, I'd like to introduce you to Money. Money, Steve. Hello, Money. Welcome to our communist utopia. Try not to make a mess. ... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're a bit Rip Van Winkle, aren't you? Communism died out after it lost the Cold War, symbolised by the tearing down of the Berlin Wall, 9 November, 1989. Nothing left but burnt out agrarian dystopias and a few Stalinist states ... " OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 If he did, it would be HORRIBLE for the Republicans <{POST_SNAPBACK}> no worse than clinton pardoning marc rich. oh well. like i said, he'd do it during an 11th hour executive decision rush after the election was over. by law, he doesn't even have to announce his decisions. they would be drowned out by all the inauguration hoopla. btw, i think it is a good idea for the president to be able to grant pardons. this is actually a check for unfair laws. it also helps protect politically motivated indictments and other legislative shenannigans. now, however, if it can be proved that money (or gifts) traded hands in exchange for a pardon, that is bribery, a felony, and any president could conceivably be convicted. of course, his successor would likely pardon him as well, regardless of political affiliation. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Did Bush pardon Clinton? OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Did Bush pardon Clinton? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He didn't need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumquatq3 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 If he did, it would be HORRIBLE for the Republicans <{POST_SNAPBACK}> no worse than clinton pardoning marc rich. oh well. like i said, he'd do it during an 11th hour executive decision rush after the election was over. by law, he doesn't even have to announce his decisions. they would be drowned out by all the inauguration hoopla. No, it would be. Marc was accused of crimes. He never went to trial. Scooter is in the presidents inner circle. It is very possible that this case could be at trial when Bush leaves office or that Scooter was already serving time because of a plea. It would be horrible for the Republican party. Never happen. It might not make headlines, as you say, the day it occurs, but it would get out and get big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Did Bush pardon Clinton? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He didn't need to. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yeah, he was only impeached, not convicted. the senate chose not to move forward with the "trial." i am curious if he could still be indicted or not. either way, bush would've pardoned him. presidents are like that, regardless of affiliation. it is one of the most exclusive fraternities in the world and all... taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 It would be horrible for the Republican party. Never happen. It might not make headlines, as you say, the day it occurs, but it would get out and get big. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> gotta remember that this would be three years from now. even the republicans don't care about sandy berger anymore... of course, poor ole sandy just can't stay out of trouble. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Did Bush pardon Clinton? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He didn't need to. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yeah, he was only impeached, not convicted. the senate chose not to move forward with the "trial." i am curious if he could still be indicted or not. either way, bush would've pardoned him. presidents are like that, regardless of affiliation. it is one of the most exclusive fraternities in the world and all... taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good question. I have no idea what the statute of limitations happens to be on perjury, but I'd imagine it doesn't have one. But it illustrates a good point; plenty of folks in the media and elsewhere are suggesting that this whole thing is a farce because the actual potential felony being investigated isn't being charged. The rebuttal, of course, is that if perjury's a good enough crime to impeach a president, it's certainly good enough to indict a White House staffer. I don't really consider this a partisan issue, I really don't. If Clinton himself was out there blowing covert agents' covers, I'd demand he be burned at the stake. The last thing we need right now is our intelligence people worried that if they report information or come to a conclusion that this or any other administration doesn't want to hear, they're going to be blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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