Story path/direction in relation to K1

[dufflover]

Firstly, this is not really a K1 vs K2 thread. I just want to gauge at what people think of K1 now after playing K2 - a poll is a bit hard here but hopefully I've covered some of the probable feelings - if something is close to what you think, vote it for it then clarify in a post rather than choosing Other.

In case the wording is unclear, I tried to make it so it goes from top to bottom, happy to unhappy.

 

OK basically what this is about is, storywise, how you look upon K1 now that you've played K2. I certainly found the story weird, and all that Revan story elements bad - both the pre-KotOR Revan Sith being for the greater good, and then running off after all that hard work winning/saving Bastila .

 

 

Some more examples of what I mean to discuss in this thread:

- Not liking things like the new take on Force Bonds and stuff is itself not part of the thread cos as far as I know, it has nothing to do with K1/Revan/Sith. Yes it was a result of something in the KotOR story but really nothing dealt with in K1 game. Although you can mention it if you didn't like other K2 stuff as well.

- "Cut content ruined the game" doesn't have much to do with it...I think.

- The Matrix sequels then go back and watch the original...is it just the same? is it all weird now?

- Half-Life 2 for me had a similar effect; this whole new "greater" threat deal.

 

Anyway, see how we go and I hope I haven't made a goose of myself. :ph34r:

[Darth Kavar]

For overall I don't care what K2 made Revan into.

When playing K1 I don't start thinking: ehm... I'm like the Sith Lord out of neccessity and these aren't Sith at all I'm fighting. In fact this ain't no real threat!

 

Such thinking would only ruin K1. It's like when playing K1 you'd think the only important thing that happens is Revan not dying. The rest is unimportant what you do anyway.

 

When I play K1 I think of it as a fixed-past -> I make changes now -> future-is-how-I'll-form-it, there are no 'True Sith' that will destroy the galaxy if I don't oppose them, Revan is dark lord because of power-hunger not because of neccessity.

 

No matter what they do in K3 however won't ruin K2 for me anymore cuz it's always:

fixed-past(Revan LS or DS which doesn't make any bigger difference) ->

-> Kreia makes changes now -> future-is-how-she-formed-it-every-playthru.

So it really doesn't matter what the Exile does.

[Nur Ab Sal]

K2 is lame and incredibly stupid effort to exploit KOTOR's popularity. 80% of K2 was made by Bioware (interface, engine, graphics etc) and Obsidian added only

enormous amount of nonsense and twisted problems that no sane person will ever try to understand.

[SteveThaiBinh]

We've read and talked about how rushed it was, and how Obsidian tried to do too much and ended up cutting large chunks that made K2 feel incomplete.

 

They were clearly trying to make K2 a sequel that followed on naturally from both LS and DS endings of K1, yet was a wholly new story with new main characters. It was the right thing to do, they made a pretty good stab at it, but they didn't quite pull it off.

 

It was always fun to play K1 and have the feeling that your choice to go LS or DS would change the fate of the galaxy. Having played K2, you know that whatever path Revan took in K1 had little or no effect. I don't think it detracts from K1, but it does change the experience of playing through K1.

 

K1 and K2 are interesting to compare, because they're so different and the contrast shows up their respective strengths and weaknesses very well. They're an odd pair, but lots of fun.

[Nur Ab Sal]

It was always fun to play K1 and have the feeling that your choice to go LS or DS would change the fate of the galaxy.  Having played K2, you know that whatever path Revan took in K1 had little or no effect.  I don't think it detracts from K1, but it does change the experience of playing through K1..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Playing Exile, you have the feeling that your actions are totally meaningless, not only to the fate of the galaxy, but to the fate of the exile himself

[SteveThaiBinh]

Playing Exile, you have the feeling that your actions are totally meaningless, not only to the fate of the galaxy, but to the fate of the exile himself

Yes, I'll admit to having had that feeling. However, I think we have to take K2 on its own terms in this regard. It's a different kind of story, a personal journey, and the gamer has to fill in a lot more of the story rather than having it handed to us. When I arrive on Malachor as a LS Jedi, my Exile is a very different person to my DS Sith and has undertaken a very different journey. The dialogue in the game, particularly the last interview with Kreia, doesn't always reflect the different choices I've made, but it doesn't deny or unravel them either. K2 makes you work harder than K1 if you want to enjoy it - is that a weakness or a strength?

Edited October 21, 2005 by SteveThaiBinh

[Nur Ab Sal]

Personal journey? Working harder? What you're talking about? The dialogs are just nonsensical and much worse than in worst EU novels. The overall story doesn't make much sense, only good thing are planet plots that are better than in K1

[Sikon]

I think I understand what he's talking about, but overall, you are entitled to your opinion. (I don't even ask anyone to stop calling something nonsensical if they don't understand it.) For me, the story made perfect sense, was unusual and unexpected. At least it wasn't a fairy tale about a Humble Hero saving the galaxy from an Evil Overlord that controls an Ancient Uber Artifact.

And I disagree that Exile's decisions didn't change much. Basically, although you never specifically aim to save or destroy the Republic (and it's good! you are just trying to understand what's going on...), you end up either strengthening it or dooming it to collapse. Not to mention preparing the future core of the restored Jedi Order.

[Darth_Schmarth]

A big problem is that KotOR2 seemed to be more about changing the story of KotOR1 than telling its own story. It was set as a continuation of Revan's story, but added zilch to Revan as it went along. All they did was say "Well, this is what really happened in that story that someone else told, and then Revan went to fight the True Sith". They talk so much about Revan and what he had done when in fact he didn't have much to do with the story; only the backstory to KotOR2 involved Revan and they made the mistake to mess around with an already told story. KotOR2 was more about backstory than story, and in the process they rewrote a very popular one.

 

Oh, and making Revan a greater-good-Sith was immensely alien to Star Wars, but might as well just have been more Kreia bollocks. She wasn't very Star Warsy herself, after all.

Edited October 21, 2005 by Darth_Schmarth

[Nur Ab Sal]

I think I understand what he's talking about, but overall, you are entitled to your opinion. (I don't even ask anyone to stop calling something nonsensical if they don't understand it.) For me, the story made perfect sense, was unusual and unexpected. At least it wasn't a fairy tale about a Humble Hero saving the galaxy from an Evil Overlord that controls an Ancient Uber Artifact.

And I disagree that Exile's decisions didn't change much. Basically, although you never specifically aim to save or destroy the Republic (and it's good! you are just trying to understand what's going on...), you end up either strengthening it or dooming it to collapse. Not to mention preparing the future core of the restored Jedi Order.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Restoring the Jedi Order? The whole idea is stupid. It's just copying the Purge from Prequels and Luke's restoration efforts (ergo: making redundant story, innecessary in SW universe). Besides if you really think that talking heads from K2 make any sense except some gibberish than you need: 1) go to a really good psychiatrist 2) play really good RPGs like Baldur's Gate or Shadows of Amn cause obviously you've never met a good storyline.

 

But I guess there are children who feel like to feel important when hearing absurds wrapped in somber sentences...

Edited October 21, 2005 by Nur Ab Sal

[dufflover]

I guess one way for me to put it (but it is quite simple but follows what seems to be going on); in K1 you are part of the story, where as in K2 all you seem to be doing is following someone else's.

When you go to back to K1 it just seems to make the Star Forge and the Rakata redundant and stuff. I mean you can say the same about Taris (why help a planet you now know is doomed) but the key here is that this particular story part was dismissed by K2, not in the same game - so the end result is a K2 effect on K1.

[Blank]

I guess one way for me to put it (but it is quite simple but follows what seems to be going on); in K1 you are part of the story, where as in K2 all you seem to be doing is following someone else's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

you kind of should be following somebody else's though, because revan made such an impact and it would be dumb not to follow some of the things that have been touched by him/her.

 

I think everything in K2 added more to the character of revan, but it would be hard to create a K3 and still have it perfectly correlate to the other two games. As i have said many times before, there are too many customizations for K3 not to have extreme generalisation of previous Kotor history, or not to have an extreme workload in creating a huge game.

[Krookie]

I don't like what they did to Revan. K2 should have been about Revan and the cast of the original KotOR in my opinion. Even if they picked up the story 5 years after K1, I still think it would have made a lot more sense then introducing like 10 new party members. Now we have 9 more stories to finish in K3, this could be good and bad. Good if we get a nice clean up of everyone, bad if LA rushes the game again and we get a crap finish like in K2.

[dufflover]

you kind of should be following somebody else's though, because revan made such an impact and it would be dumb not to follow some of the things that have been touched by him/her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well what if K2 had never touched Revan then? Revan only made such an impact because of what was said in K2 (K1 never said said he'd run off or was fighting "True Sith"). I would've been quite content with how Revan/Bastila/Carth ended in K1 if they were never dealt with in K2. Sure I would've liked a bit more dealing with Revan/Bastila romance like in the movies but better leaving it in the ending K1 had rather than just have him run off.

Again, just completely different to the character from K1

[Dark Moth]

Voted "good effort but...". Story was a good effort, but they definitely tried too hard. So much in fact that I was really close to voting for the "making Revan a greater good Sith was stupid" option.

[Sikon]

But I guess there are children who feel like to feel important when hearing absurds wrapped in somber sentences...

Well, 18 is a child, indeed. Way to go. By the way, repetitiveness is common in SW (just remember the Death Star, Droid Control Ship and Star Forge), and the second game has less of it than the first. Actually, it includes just the Jedi purge, which is forgettable.

[Nur Ab Sal]

But I guess there are children who feel like to feel important when hearing absurds wrapped in somber sentences...

Well, 18 is a child, indeed. Way to go. By the way, repetitiveness is common in SW (just remember the Death Star, Droid Control Ship and Star Forge), and the second game has less of it than the first. Actually, it includes just the Jedi purge, which is forgettable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't forget about: Goto (droid from the death star), Remote (Obi-Wan's training ball), Nar Shaddaa (copied from Dark Empire without changes, which is silly cause it is 4000 years before DE) and Jedi Academy novels (the plot to restore the jedi, finding apprentices among normal people etc)

 

I can barely stand repetitives in K1, but I can't forgive Jedi Purge 4000 years before actual Jedi Purge

 

18 years means you're no child. Still admiring TSL storyline... strange.

[Taran'atar]

Making Revan some sort of greater good Sith was stupid

 

The idea of Revan falling to the dark side out of some sense of greater good is indeed absurd. However, neither KOTOR 2 or Obsidian "made" him/her that. They made a character that thinks that's what happened. This character just happens to be a senile old woman that, by all accounts, wasn't there during the wars and had no idea what went through Revans head. Her opinion can be easily dismissed.

[Plano Skywalker]

The idea of Revan falling to the dark side out of some sense of greater good is indeed absurd.  However, neither KOTOR 2 or Obsidian "made" him/her that.  They made a character that thinks that's what happened.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

excellent point...they could definitely spin it that way....K2 is, when it is all said and done, the story of a former Jedi Master named Kreia....she might have been making it ALL up.

 

(however the "echo" thing was not just a figment of her imagination....it was an actual phenom because all the Jedi sensed it.)

 

I hope K3 gives us more of Kreia's backstory (the true backstory).

[dufflover]

Making Revan some sort of greater good Sith was stupid

 

The idea of Revan falling to the dark side out of some sense of greater good is indeed absurd. However, neither KOTOR 2 or Obsidian "made" him/her that. They made a character that thinks that's what happened. This character just happens to be a senile old woman that, by all accounts, wasn't there during the wars and had no idea what went through Revans head. Her opinion can be easily dismissed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So why then did Obsidian transform the "remade" Revan into some Sith hunter on a wild goose chase. It's like in K1 one of the themes coming from the whole Revan deal is "you are who you are now" sorta things, which well no suprise, didn't work too well with the Exile when I thought along those lines too in the dialog. Well in terms of K1 story what I'm saying is that you have (assuming LS) played a character who really is a whole new person, yet here he runs off on this chase, and if you think about it, turning into the person he was before trying to stop the True Sith (and this isn't Kreia's fantasies alone)

[Plano Skywalker]

So why then did Obsidian transform the "remade" Revan into some Sith hunter on a wild goose chase. It's like in K1 one of the themes coming from the whole Revan deal is "you are who you are now" sorta things, which well no suprise, didn't work too well with the Exile when I thought along those lines too in the dialog. Well in terms of K1 story what I'm saying is that you have (assuming LS) played a character who really is a whole new person, yet here he runs off on this chase, and if you think about it, turning into the person he was before trying to stop the True Sith (and this isn't Kreia's fantasies alone)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you think about it, K2 introduced so much new continuity, it's not even funny. I wonder if K3 will, in fact, wrap up the current story arch. Perhaps not. Perhaps LFL would rather a seasoned EU comic writer wrap up the present mess we are in and have K3 be a totally unrelated story.

 

As long as the story gets wrapped up, I don't really care what media it is in.

 

There will be a K3 but it may not wrap up K2....the comics may do that.

[germi91]

I think Obsidian should've kept it simple: Good VS Bad. Why all the 'I'm neutral, i'm a gray jedi/Dark jedi. I use the dark side of the force for the greater good'? I mean, l thought 'Once you start on the path to the dark side, forever it will dominate your destiny' or something. And here you see almost everyone using dark side powers, telling each other how neutral they are, how they don't see in absolutes and all.

It doesn't make sense!

Edited October 23, 2005 by germi91

[dufflover]

I think Obsidian should've kept it simple: Good VS Bad. Why all the 'I'm neutral, i'm a gray jedi/Dark jedi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because Kreia is in the game and I mean the game practically revolves around her good/evil neutral thing.

 

I mean at least in K1 Jolee was a "good guy" and bit more realistic in neutral being that he is in-different to some acts of lesser DS (like lies and stuff) but Kreia, as the other thread talks about is really evil in what she wants to do even if she thinks it's neutral.

 

OK, to come back to the relation to K1, I think Kreia is in someways the product of how Obsidian has twisted the original story - all these things come from her mouth.

[vaxen83]

Kreia was placed by OE as a Consular on Peragus without her own weapon. Yet, she is shown to be someone who is potentially lethal. (There is a scene of her walking in the Trayus Academy and Sith Assassins stalking her, yet they collapse fatally and her manner of draining their lives is almost superficial)

 

And OE gave Kreia a non-Jedi weapon when dueling with Sion on the Harbinger. Anyone could actually wield a vibrosword, even Atton.

[dufflover]

And OE gave Kreia a non-Jedi weapon when dueling with Sion on the Harbinger. Anyone could actually wield a vibrosword, even Atton.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it was just so they could make a little quest of putting together a lightsaber (trying to out-do K1's pick-a-colour-any-colour).