So... Christianity, but more specific.

[Rosbjerg]

we all need ideas or an ideology to cling to .. be it science, religion or a nihilistic approach!

 

It's human nature to interpret our surroundings .. and apparantly also catagorizing it into a dogmatic world view..

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

we all need ideas or an ideology to cling to .. be it science, religion or a nihilistic approach!

 

It's human nature to interpret our surroundings .. and apparantly also catagorizing it into a dogmatic world view..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do we ? Is it a need or just a desire for security ?

[Rosbjerg]

Do we ? Is it a need or just a desire for security ?

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can't you be secure without a belief?

 

It seems to be a necessity, since we all do it to a degree .. I think it's related to how we percive the world, the human mind works in symbols .. and culture/religion/science etc gives us tools to interpret foreign symbols .. thus making us able to comfortably percieving the world around without having to think too hard..

[WITHTEETH]

we all need ideas or an ideology to cling to .. be it science, religion or a nihilistic approach!

 

It's human nature to interpret our surroundings .. and apparantly also catagorizing it into a dogmatic world view..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do we ? Is it a need or just a desire for security ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Need, desire, they are the same in this case. One doesn't really NEED anything except to cause an effect. Do you need a breath of air? no unless you want the effect of life. Do you need a ideas or idealogy? no unless you want to define the world around you.

 

Man has always been looking for answers, it is in our nature. We have a need/desire to define everything.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

can't you be secure without a belief?

 

It seems to be a necessity, since we all do it to a degree .. I think it's related to how we percive the world, the human mind works in symbols .. and culture/religion/science etc gives us tools to interpret foreign symbols .. thus making us able to comfortably percieving the world around without having to think too hard..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Should that be can you be ? Seems to make more sense that way in relation to the other paragraph.

 

I would define a need as something you couldnt exist without. Thus food - no food and you die.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

2005, 12:06 PM]we all need ideas or an ideology to cling to .. be it science,

Need, desire, they are the same in this case. One doesn't really NEED anything except to cause an effect. Do you need a breath of air? no unless you want the effect of life. Do you need a ideas or idealogy? no unless you want to define the world around you.

 

Man has always been looking for answers, it is in our nature. We have a need/desire to define everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Needs would be those things required for survival food and air are a need , so is water.

 

If your not alive, then all those other questions, not that important.

[WITHTEETH]

2005, 12:06 PM]we all need ideas or an ideology to cling to .. be it science,

Need, desire, they are the same in this case. One doesn't really NEED anything except to cause an effect. Do you need a breath of air? no unless you want the effect of life. Do you need a ideas or idealogy? no unless you want to define the world around you.

 

Man has always been looking for answers, it is in our nature. We have a need/desire to define everything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Needs would be those things required for survival food and air are a need , so is water.

 

If your not alive, then all those other questions, not that important.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But ideologies can be a survival trait also. It gives meaning to their lives so that the suffereing has understanding. Thus changing the attitude of the person into optimistically not suffering anymore. In this case it is needed so not to commit suicide.

Edited October 19, 2005 by WITHTEETH

[Rosbjerg]

Should that be can you be ? Seems to make more sense that way in relation to the other paragraph.

 

I would define a need as something you couldnt exist without. Thus food - no food and you die.

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To be without you need (that word again) a very specific frame of mind .. just try to percieve the world around you neglecting indoctrinated system of catagorizations!

 

it's pretty hard .. ^_^

[Kaftan Barlast]

I believe in poop.

[WITHTEETH]

I believe in poop. 

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Kaftan makes a great point! Pooping can cause release of suffering, thus so you won't have a reason to commit suicide.

[Dark Moth]

After all unless you actually talk to god , all you really have to go on is a 2000 year old book which is not only extremely out of date for a realistic world view, but also far from infalliable given it's copying by various people and into various languages.

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Actually, a lot of the Bible is older than 2000 years. And would you be referring to its teachings, or the customs it observes? Because I think you'll find a lot of the Bible's teachings and doctrines can be applied to even this day and age. The bible may contain ancient customs and traditions, but it also contains timeless, universal doctrines in how to live.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

But ideologies can be a survival trait also. It gives meaning to their lives so that the suffereing has understanding. Thus changing the attitude of the person into optimistically not suffering anymore. In this case it is needed so not to commit suicide.

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Thats not a need though since your applying it to a specific frame of mind. Where as the things I outlined as needs, you deprive anyone of those and the result is the same

 

Ideologies can also be self destructive. Where as a person with that ideology (or having had it crushed) will self desctruct it would have no effect on anyone else.

 

For example definitive proof there was no "god" would hardly bother me , except for a few I told you so's. For others it would destroy the very meaning of their existence.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

but it also contains timeless, universal doctrines in how to live. 

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Obviously not or everyone would follow it. Dosnt picking and choosing the good bits kind of defeat the purpose anyway ?

Edited October 19, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[julianw]

I think it's Descartes who said this: the human heart refuses to believe in a universe without purpose.

 

Religion certainly offers a comfortable answer when we question the meaning of life. But to all those fundamentalists in religion, I'd like to bring your attention to my sig. However strong your conviction is, you still took a leap of faith at some point in your life. It proves that you once doubted this belief and it's that doubt that brought you to your personal truth. If you no longers doubt what you have learned any more, then you are only turning away from what you have found instead of embracing it closer to your heart.

Edited October 19, 2005 by julianw

[WITHTEETH]

But ideologies can be a survival trait also. It gives meaning to their lives so that the suffereing has understanding. Thus changing the attitude of the person into optimistically not suffering anymore. In this case it is needed so not to commit suicide.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats not a need though since your applying it to a specific frame of mind. Where as the things I outlined as needs, you deprive anyone of those and the result is the same

 

Ideologies can also be self destructive. Where as a person with that ideology (or having had it crushed) will self desctruct it would have no effect on anyone else.

 

For example definitive proof there was no "god" would hardly bother me , except for a few I told you so's. For others it would destroy the very meaning of their existence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Subjective. It may bother others that their might not be a God. Others might wonder, what is the point to life then? fail to think creatively enough, go into a downward spiral and shoot themselves. Misery is misery, we can't judge someone elses misery. If they believe in something they might have a higher chance to live on. whether that be science, philosophy, religion or carers as i said.

[Dark Moth]

but it also contains timeless, universal doctrines in how to live. 

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Obviously not or everyone would follow it.

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Not necessarily. But my point is that you can apply some of the teachings of the Bible even today. Themes such as not killing, being a good neighbor, helping others, being just, being humble, etc are all found in there. You don't think things like that can apply to the world today?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Subjective. It may bother others that their might not be a God. Others might wonder, what is the point to life then? fail to think creatively enough, go into a downward spiral and shoot themselves. Misery is misery, we can't judge someone elses misery. If they believe in something they might have a higher chance to live on. whether that be science, philosophy, religion or carers as i said.

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Of course it's subjective. However anyone who thinks, not eating, breathing or drinking won't lead to death is more than welcome to prove me wrong

[WITHTEETH]

Of course it's subjective. However anyone who thinks, not eating, breathing or drinking won't lead to death is more than welcome to prove me wrong 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im not saying that its NOT a need to eat or breath, im stating that ideologies, ideas/ beliefs are also a neccesities to some. merely an addition.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Not necessarily.  But my point is that you can apply some of the teachings of the Bible even today.  Themes such as not killing, being a good neighbor, helping others, being just, being humble, etc are all found in there.  You don't think things like that can apply to the world today?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The not killing is a bit of a joke really isnt It ? I mean lets be honest.

 

You can find those things in other places too. I dont see the big deal about the bible unless you buy into the whole thing, since if you dont buy into the whole thing then your obviously seeing it as imperfect anyway.

 

There are few absolutes after all it really depends on the situation.

[Rosbjerg]

I still believe that it's a matter of perception .. in order to comfortably percieve the world we need a coherent (or not so chorent) system of catagorizing input .. so we build up elaborate religions, doctrines, dogmas and systems of science to be able to process the unexplained .. to label the alien surroundings we haven't grown comfortable with yet and catagorize them into small boxes we can "safely" percieve .. it's a "need" because otherwise we would spend all of our time trying to figure out what is what .. like babies do..

 

this explains why old people are so conservative as well .. they have simply gorwn too accustomed to their particular world view ..

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Im not saying that its NOT a need to eat or breath, im stating that ideologies, ideas/ beliefs are also a neccesities to some. merely an addition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Too some yes. I was never disputing that. Only that they are not universal needs. Which by definition makes them comforts, they make people feel better. Like the blanky example.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I still believe that it's a matter of perception .. in order to comfortably percieve the world we need a coherent (or not so chorent) system of catagorizing input .. so we build up elaborate religions, doctrines, dogmas and systems of science to be able to process the unexplained .. to label the alien surroundings we haven't grown comfortable with yet and catagorize them into small boxes we can "safely" percieve .. it's a "need" because otherwise we would spend all of our time trying to figure out what is what .. like babies do..

 

this explains why old people are so conservative as well .. they have simply gorwn too accustomed to their particular world view .. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe I should just resign from humanity and declare myself a sub speieces :D

[WITHTEETH]

Im not saying that its NOT a need to eat or breath, im stating that ideologies, ideas/ beliefs are also a neccesities to some. merely an addition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Too some yes. I was never disputing that. Only that they are not universal needs. Which by definition makes them comforts, they make people feel better. Like the blanky example.

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I think we need ideas, beleifs or ideologies as much as a healthy person needs sex. speaking of, any smukke women in here? "

Edited October 19, 2005 by WITHTEETH

[Akhan225]

Geez, this discussion hasnt stopped for a second. What say we all take a breather?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I think we need ideas, beleifs or ideologies as much as a healthy person needs sex. speaking of, any smukke women in here? "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then we just get into total subjectivity. Procreation is certainly a need for the speices, but as a speices we dont really need sex (although I wonder what people would choose if given a no more sex or no more religion question).

 

You read the sig translation I see.

Edited October 19, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0