Oblivion megamovie

[Hell Kitty]

I've also never seen a in engine scene that can approach the dynamism and emotion of an FMV and I've played a lot JRPGs where both are pretty common.

 

The in-game cutscenes in MGS3: Snake Eater are better than most (if not all) FMV cutscenes I've ever scene.

 

Did you ever play Haunting Ground? The in-game cutscenes are much better than the FMV. The FMV wasn't bad, just... odd. This served only to distract.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The in-game cutscenes in MGS3: Snake Eater are better than most (if not all) FMV cutscenes I've ever scene.

 

Did you ever play Haunting Ground? The in-game cutscenes are much better than the FMV. The FMV wasn't bad, just... odd. This served only to distract.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually I found them a bit fuzzy. Like when you shoot a model through a diffusion filter to disguise the imperfections. They did seem to fit the theme of the game though.But not suited to where you want clearer detail, especially inorganic detail like armour and airships (thinking of FFXII there).

 

No , can't say I have.

Edited October 12, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Epiphany]

Yes, I agree with you... with today's technology we can have visual quality at such level that FMV sequences are rather pointless... as you say, mostly because they are expensive.

 

That wasn't really the direction I was trying to head. I was simply commenting that with larger production values of next gen games, the games engine will be equally as powerful. Since middleware licenses such as the UE3 will be extremely popular, these production values will go to the costs related in getting the engine, and then tweaking it. The engine itself is so powerful (among many other next gen engines) along with the two front running consoles for next gen being as strong as they are, you can simply do everything in real time that you would previously have needed FMV for. Sure, they can up the bar on FMV, but what purpose does it serve? Many of the "big name" games this generation had FMV sequences that were mere pixels away from looking completely realistic. It's just not practicle to use an abundance of FMV in next gen titles, unless you don't have the technical motivation to have a powerhouse engine running the game. If it comes down to that, I honestly believe those companies won't survive as well, and those games won't be as popular, since the big budget titles will get the publicity.

 

On normalmapping, however... it's a marvel, yes, but the model still only has 5000 polys (using your example). The normalmap is primarily (why, exclusively I'd like to say) used for lighting and shading of a model. The contours of the model will still show the low polycount.

The question is, does it matter? In a movie it does, but in a game... not really, no.

 

The Gears of War models have very low poly counts, and yet have incredible detail. If you watch the tech demonstration of the UE3, you'll see how they take a normal 100k (can't remember the exact number, but it was high) and then compare it to a 5k model. They're identical in appearance, because of the texture work. Pushing polygons is not some magnificant feat like it used to be. Now it's just pushing textures and shaders, which the PS3 and X360 can do at an extreme level.

 

Most of this new tech is, as some would say, "cheating"... You've got LODS and sprites and stuff for trees when you want to show 20k characters on-screen. And it's ok, by me.

 

That's just an elitest response that serves absolutely no part in this conversation. Texture work is just as, if not more important than having high polygon models.

[Epiphany]

That is true only to an extent. I don't know about you, but I can tell the difference between a real highpoly model and a one that's had all sorts of funky mapping techniques applied to it.

 

Then you must be the only one, cause the UE3 tech demo clearly shows how there is no difference between the two, when proper maps are applied to the model. I guess that's why everyone is blind, and you aren't.

 

Could they? All these fancy next-gen games I see people frothing over for their graphics are not very large scale. I'm not at all too sure something like UE3 engine, for example, could actually work in an RTS with, say, battles with 200 units fighting, and look even half as decent as a comparable game with an engine built for those 200-man battle scenes, but lacking in the spiff.

 

Not large scale? HUH?

 

N3 (formerly Ninety Nine Nights)

Kameo

Heavenly Sword

 

How do games get any "larger" in scale than these?

Edited October 12, 2005 by Epiphany

[Epiphany]

DVD-9 is not obsolete, that's the basis of your pathetic stance on this argument.

When will you ever understand the point of this debate.. It's like trying to explain Shakespeare to a rock.

 

Noone has said DVD's are obsolete now (except for you putting words in everyone elses mouths). But the fact is that one DVD is not enough space for some games even when the Xbox360 launches. Unless Microsoft is planning on releasing a new Xbox every year, the DVD player in the Xbox360 is going to become completely obsolete within a year or two after release. A console is supposed to have at least a 5 year life cycle. We'll see in a couple of years how clever it was to stick with DVD..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Did you even bother to read the post I was responding to, or do you like just making things up? He said it was obsolete - running out of room before it hit the streets. Sorry, but that's about as "right now" as it gets. But, I guess as with every PS3 fanboy, they instantly forget that disc mediums can be swapped during gameplay. So, on the rare occasions that a game uses so much FMV that it fills up a full DVD-9, then the game will simply ship on two discs. But, that goes into a debate that you simply don't understand, or haven't cared to comment on, which is FMV vs in-game cutscenes, and their drastic effect on storage.

 

And does Spiderman 2 (2004) count? SW: EP III (2005)? Or Serenity (2005...slightly cheesy, but still pretty impressive)? Or even look at game trailers...many of those out-do the next-gen games we've seen so far.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Project Offset?

Edited October 12, 2005 by Epiphany

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Did you even bother to read the post I was responding to, or do you like just making things up?  He said it was obsolete - running out of room before it hit the streets.  Sorry, but that's about as "right now" as it gets.  But, I guess as with every PS3 fanboy, they instantly forget that disc mediums can be swapped during gameplay.  So, on the rare occasions that a game uses so much FMV that it fills up a full DVD-9, then the game will simply ship on two discs.  But, that goes into a debate that you simply don't understand, or haven't cared to comment on, which is FMV vs in-game cutscenes, and their drastic effect on storage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You do want to get a 5 year lifespan out of the 360 dont you ? I mean it really is a no brainer than any comments about DVD's running out of space are still going to be applicable the entire life of the console

 

What happens when people start to make full use of Blu Ray

Edited October 12, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Not large scale? HUH?

 

N3 (formerly Ninety Nine Nights)

Kameo

Heavenly Sword"

 

Can you use their engines to render good looking cutscenes? Will they look as good close up as your precious UE3? Will they look even half as decent as good FMVs?

 

"Then you must be the only one, cause the UE3 tech demo clearly shows how there is no difference between the two, when proper maps are applied to the model. I guess that's why everyone is blind, and you aren't."

 

You're not everyone.

Edited October 12, 2005 by Sarjahurmaaja.

[Meshugger]

vs.

Edited October 12, 2005 by Meshugger

[Guest Fishboot]

Normal mapping makes for great screenies, but it's easy to notice the "false mass" when you're playing an actual live game. I think that there's gonna be a generation of games that try to finesse around the ugly stuff normal mapping can do.

 

 

Unrelated point: FMV feels cheesy to some, including me, and I've heard complaints about it from my friends also. I think it was a fun gimmick in the FF7 days but now I feel like if you have to leave the game's engine to tell the story the game and narrative are mismatched. I never played WC3, though.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

One thing I noticed when looking over gears of war is the gameplay footage dosnt bear much resemblence to the screenshots. I'm also kind of curious about the actual difference between what a normal TV will display as opposed to HDTV. Since ours set us back about

[Epiphany]

Can you use their engines to render good looking cutscenes? Will they look as good close up as your precious UE3? Will they look even half as decent as good FMVs?

 

Have you checked out the games yet?

 

You're not everyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

NO WAY!

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Most companies haven't made full use of the DVD.  Hell, most games are still being made on CD ROMs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well that explains all the multi DVD games knocking around dosnt it.

No point applying PC logic to a console, they are totally different in how the storage medium is used.

 

Go back the tail end of the PS and no one could see needing more than 1 DvD. Yet blu ray is all set to displace DVD over the next few years.

 

Maybe this one hasnt occured to you, but do you think that part of the reason your console RPGs are smaller is that you just dont have the space and there is no particular desire to up the costs with another disk when you could just leave out a level or two.

Edited October 12, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

PC or COnsole, a game is a game.  Nowadays it is irrelevant what platform it is on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ummm ok..

 

Try sticking a decompressed EverQuest II onto a CD and tell me how it goes.

[SubBassman]

FMV? What for?

 

 

Check this uber game out

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

How about PC KotOR 2?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kind of old looking. How many disks does it come on anyway?

 

How much space does KOTOR II take up on the HD ?

Edited October 12, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Epiphany]

PC or COnsole, a game is a game.  Nowadays it is irrelevant what platform it is on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Completely irrelevant, as games are cross platform from console to PC all the time. It's supposed to be even more frequent next gen as well.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I got 5 to 6 gig, but I have that media patch files in it and quite a number of mods going, so baseline is more like 4.4 gig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Couldnt play it without a harddrive anyway.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Yeah, and?  Of course they would have it compressed so I think it would total less than 4 gig on a DVD.  A DVD has more than enough room.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes but KOTOR isnt exactly what you would call the cutting edge of technology now is it. Look at more recent games and they take up a lot more room too I doubt thats going to cease since it's been going on for the whole history of gaming.

 

Wonder how much disk space NwN II is going to take compared to NwN...

Edited October 12, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I doubt it will be on multiple DVDs.  I doubt it that it will come out on DVD.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I dont think your getting it. There is fundamental difference between a console and a PC. On a console the game runs off the DvD on the PC the DVD/CD is only there to transport the game from the store to your hard drive.

 

Even if NWN II were to come out on 20 disks thats only a pain in the arse during instalation. However if it came out on 20 disks on a console , thats a pain in the arse every time you play.

 

I'd be pretty sure it will be on DvD since NWN was on 3 disks and it's probably easier and cheaper to package a single DVD than it is to package 5 or 6 disks. Especially in view of the new packaging rules.

Edited October 12, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

That is why you get a console with a hard drive. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Two problems with that. You wont get many games on a 20GB HD and you dont want to be contantly fooling around deleting stuff since that kind of defeats the point of having a console in the first place.

 

Second. Developers are not allowed to assume that a unit will have a HD when they make the games. Thats what happens when you release multiple versions of a console so they cant take full advantage of a HD which may not be there.

[Epiphany]

That is why you get a console with a hard drive. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's why consoles have different compression methods than PC games, and the console game also does not require the various textures that many games have, because there is no "low, medium, high" setting on a console game. A harddrive is good for cache streaming on a console, but using it a storage medium simply isn't the answer. There are so many variables that add extra space to a PC game that simply don't apply to console versions.

[Noceur]

That is true only to an extent. I don't know about you, but I can tell the difference between a real highpoly model and a one that's had all sorts of funky mapping techniques applied to it.

 

Then you must be the only one, cause the UE3 tech demo clearly shows how there is no difference between the two, when proper maps are applied to the model. I guess that's why everyone is blind, and you aren't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, that was what I said as well. You can cleary see the difference. Especially in contours. You see, that's the difference between Textures/Shaders and polygons... textures and pixelshaders don't alter/add geometry.

 

There's more to geometry than just "looking good" too.

 

We'll most likely get to a point where there's no real distinction between real-time rendered stuff and pre-rendered but we ain't there yet.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

We'll most likely get to a point where there's no real distinction between real-time rendered stuff and pre-rendered but we ain't there yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe the generation after next as long as they keep pushing the technical envolope.

[Noceur]

We'll most likely get to a point where there's no real distinction between real-time rendered stuff and pre-rendered but we ain't there yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe the generation after next as long as they keep pushing the technical envolope.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mm, I wouldn't keep my hopes up. :/

Probably pretty close in some circumstances.

I'm not gonna pull a Bill Gates, though... Nobody will ever use more than 640kb my arse.

Edited October 12, 2005 by Noceur

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I'm not gonna pull a Bill Gates, though... Nobody will ever use more than 640kb my arse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I bet someone has that framed somewhere.