213374U Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 You mean you are going toto finally end your endless rambling and let this thread run its course? (w00t) So, for you: Incoherent gibberish = debate. Rational, well formulated debate = "endless rambling". Boy, you really do live in Bizarro World. :ph34r: - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancer Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Don't dodge the question. I'm not saying in general. This is a game forum. I'm saying what makes a good game villain. I gave you my definiton in one sentence. So step up and pitch yours! And quit double posting, cornsarnit. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Fine I'll bite: In the case of SoA, a villain that helps in some way shape or form advance the main storyline of the saga. Did Irenicus do this? Then no. He fails my definition by default. Lancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Why would your definition of a villain have a "In the case of SoA" qualifier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deraldin Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Don't dodge the question. I'm not saying in general. This is a game forum. I'm saying what makes a good game villain. I gave you my definiton in one sentence. So step up and pitch yours! And quit double posting, cornsarnit. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Fine I'll bite: In the case of SoA, a villain that helps in some way shape or form advance the main storyline of the saga. Did Irenicus do this? Then no. He fails my definition by default. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I swear we had this thread split to move this discussion to another thread, so would you two give it a rest already? " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 In the case of SoA, a villain that helps in some way shape or form advance the main storyline of the saga. Did Irenicus do this? Then no. He fails my definition by default. Yes, you have already made that point in previous posts. And it has been defused as well. The problem here is that you keep trying to search for solid arguments to back your tastes. There is no such thing, as it's more of an emotional question than a rational one, and if you keep trying, you will keep failing. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancer Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 I swear we had this thread split to move this discussion to another thread, so would you two give it a rest already? " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You are right. These people aren't worth the trouble. c-ya. lol Lancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Groovy. I am not sure I agree with you in the SoA context, but not so much I'd make a big deal of it. Totally disagree in general terms though. A villain doesn't necessarily have to connect to the 'saga' or life story of the character. I wouldn't want to sit down at a design session with that definition as my objective. Far too manga for my liking. Not to mention the fact that as a player I want the life story to be my own bloody choice! I'm not sure how sarevok really advances the saga. Need some elucidation. Glad to be back on solid ground, however. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancer Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 What was I saying about ID and Xenogears.. Oh yeah, that he is a good villain.. Sorry Calax, I am just trying to help you out here. Lancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted September 11, 2005 Author Share Posted September 11, 2005 Id is good until you find out his secret, I prefer the "most powerful man"/wiseman... I will give Xenogears props for having very very complicated villans. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Groovy. I am not sure I agree with you in the SoA context, but not so much I'd make a big deal of it. Totally disagree in general terms though. A villain doesn't necessarily have to connect to the 'saga' or life story of the character. I wouldn't want to sit down at a design session with that definition as my objective. Far too manga for my liking. Not to mention the fact that as a player I want the life story to be my own bloody choice! I'm not sure how sarevok really advances the saga. Need some elucidation. Glad to be back on solid ground, however. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think he just needed a way to try to rank Sarevok higher. I don't know many villains that connect to the saga or life story of the character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancer Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Id is good until you find out his secret, I prefer the "most powerful man"/wiseman... I will give Xenogears props for having very very complicated villans. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> With the wiseman I am assuming you mean Graf? I thought Id became even more interesting once you found out his secret. And it was quite a secret indeed! He was just so purely evil capable of destroying entire cities by himself and driving Ramsus mad. And he had an "aura" of coolness mixed in with that cool theme song of his that really set him apart. It was a b**** too to fight him the first time. That was the hardest fight in the game for me. And you are right about Xenogear's villains. They were certainly more complex than anything in the BG games. Lancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 No mentions of Dr. Wily? He was one evil dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancer Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 I also have soft spot in my heart for Rance Culzus and The Commander from Target Earth for the Genesis. This was the first game that left me in awe. Being a space nut, this game captivated me more than any other at the time. I have beaten it hundreds of times (literally) and in fact, I have beaten it a couple more times just a couple of weeks ago. I am even devising plans of making my own homebrew PNP campaign based on that one game. Gosh, how I *love* Target Earth Lancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted September 11, 2005 Author Share Posted September 11, 2005 Id is good until you find out his secret, I prefer the "most powerful man"/wiseman... I will give Xenogears props for having very very complicated villans. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> With the wiseman I am assuming you mean Graf? I thought Id became even more interesting once you found out his secret. And it was quite a secret indeed! He was just so purely evil capable of destroying entire cities by himself and driving Ramsus mad. And he had an "aura" of coolness mixed in with that cool theme song of his that really set him apart. It was a b**** too to fight him the first time. That was the hardest fight in the game for me. And you are right about Xenogear's villains. They were certainly more complex than anything in the BG games. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I said wiseman because I didn't remeber his name. I should point out that Ramus was well on his way to insanity because of Id and was only pushed over by Miang and Graf... Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted September 11, 2005 Author Share Posted September 11, 2005 Oh! I'm going to add JC Denton to this list! the endings of the Invisible war have to deal with wiping out all the other leaders for the faction you work for. JC is one of them. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Aviv Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Oh! I'm going to add JC Denton to this list! the endings of the Invisible war have to deal with wiping out all the other leaders for the faction you work for. JC is one of them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He's not a villain as such, though you're right, it all depends on your alignment I suppose. I do think though that Luminon Saman was the by far the better villain . I think someone has already mention Walton Simons, that dastardly G man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I think someone has already mention Walton Simons, that dastardly G man! Yeah, nobody likes the FEMA chairman these days, eh. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkreku Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Damn, all this talk about Deus Ex has made me want to install it. Again. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I just beat it again! It was neat, as I was able to spare Paul this time, so there were many conversations that I had never seen before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted September 12, 2005 Author Share Posted September 12, 2005 I was talking about Invisible War. IW would have been good if it had kept several of the mechanics of the first one. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 We know that. But Tel Aviv mentioned Walter Simons from the first one, so the discussion evolved to the original Deus Ex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted September 12, 2005 Author Share Posted September 12, 2005 Bob Page was good. But you didn't actually fight him. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I liked listening to him whine when I was on my way to merge with the Helios AI . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I've never played either since I don't care for shooters. I came to really love Half Life despite hating the FPS genre. I should play Deus Ex when I have the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted September 12, 2005 Author Share Posted September 12, 2005 Ender you are missing out one the biggest thing since Half Life1 to happen to FPS. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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