"Exegi monumentum aere perennius..."

[Moorglade]

At first, I would like to say that I have always been fascinated with computer games, and I

[Dark Moth]

*puts away lightsaber*

 

First of all, welcome to the boards.

 

You make good points. A lot of people don't like K2 because of everything you mentioned, and the fact that it wasn't "Star Wars" The game was indeed morally ambiguous, something SW doesn't do, but my problem with the game is that it was too gray. It made virtually no distinctions between right and wrong, and this is mostly due to the games

main villain (Kreia/Darth Traya, who I would have killed in the very beginning if given the chance).

 

 

Also, K2, while attempting to do something different, failed in my (and other people's) opinion. They did something different, but I found the overall story to be weak, unfulfilling, and utterly boring in some places. K1 gave us a good, fulfilling story, I think, with much different philosphies (redemption, your choices make a difference, etc). It made much greater distinctions between good and evil.

 

And while K2 had it's good moments, I don't feel it is superior to its sequal. Maybe if they had more time it would be better, but we'll never know for sure. And another reason fans were so disappointed was because we were given a different kind of game than the one advertised. That caught many fans (myself included) off guard and left a lot disappointed. But a lot of it boils down to personal opinion, too. Different people have different preferences. Some people don't like SW, and like K2 for that reason.

 

I'd love to discuss this more, but I gotta go for now. :D

 

Spoiler tags added -Battlewookiee

Edited September 6, 2005 by Battlewookiee

[Calax]

Mothman we're in the General forum you've just blown it for a bunch of lurkers!

 

And to Moorglade. You be preaching to the choir.

[Gabrielle]

Looks like a winner.

[EnderAndrew]

If only the game had the original intended ending, and then there would be no doubt.

[Sentry]

You make good points.  A lot of people don't like K2 because of everything you mentioned, and the fact that it wasn't "Star Wars"  The game was indeed morally ambiguous, something SW doesn't do, but my problem with the game is that it was too gray.  It made virtually no distinctions between right and wrong, and this is mostly due to the games

main villain (Kreia/Darth Traya, who I would have killed in the very beginning if given the chance).

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm... Strange . I found the moral ambiguity of TSL's to be one of the best improvements in the series. Personally, I thing GL's star wars movies are pathetically simplistic in thier morality. (That guy has a red saber, he MUST be evil!! )

 

TSL does not define what is right and wrong, instead it challenges the player to make these choices for themselves which I find to be more rewarding in the long run.

 

As such, TSL is a much deeper game than KOTOR even if, in the end, it proved to be less satisfying...

[Dark Moth]

Perhaps, but I found it annoying when it got too gray. It was like good and evil didn't exist anymore, and that they were both the same, which isn't true. I just felt like my choices didn't make much of a difference. Of course, this is because we had an old witch like Kreia teaching you about right and wrong, even though she had no concept of right and wrong herself. And I must wholeheartedly disagree with your take on the K2 storyline, but I guess that is just personal preference, no matter how wrong it is... " (j/k)

[Sentry]

I don't much care for the storyline, actually. The Exile character is pretty cool, but the story was undercooked...

 

What I liked was the dialogue. It was better written and more philosophical than KOTOR's. It didn't just rehash the same stupid old "The Jedi are Holy - The Sith are Satan's little helpers" sort of thinking...

[EnderAndrew]

I think the dialogue was much better all around, even for minor NPCs.

[dufflover]

I just read the title and thought:

"Senatus Populusque Romanus"

 

ofcourse not much to do with anything besides from the fact it's something I pulled while thinking of games and is Latin (I think...).

 

Unfortunetly anything Star Wars will be Lucas Arts so even if you don't blame Obsidian you still got a problem with future SW games.

 

btw, Welcome....wanna play Pazaak

[Judge Hades]

Torment was a good game, but the lack of an ending and very poor tech support for KotOR 2 killed my interest in the game and PC gaming in general. PC gaming is not worth getting into anymore with a decent system costing thousands and all we get is unsupported games.

[Moorglade]

Perhaps, but I found it annoying when it got too gray.  It was like good and evil didn't exist anymore, and that they were both the same, which isn't true.  I just felt like my choices didn't make much of a difference.  Of course, this is because we had an old witch like Kreia teaching you about right and wrong, even though she had no concept of right and wrong herself. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, maybe K2 was 'gray', but isn't the reality gray also? It was quite boring for me to see the Mighty Jedi fighting the Evil Sith to 'Save the Galaxy' in every SW film/game/whatever. While I can understand that there are people who are willing to sacrifice themselves in order to help others, in SW we've seen legions of them. And what's more, most of them didn't have any particular reason to do it - apart from a blue lightsaber/'good' colour of the uniform. And Obsidian introduced something new (FINALLY!) to what they call 'character motivation'. You know WHY the Exile is travelling across the Galaxy, and understand that everyone, good or evil, would act similarly.

And there is a distinction between what's good and what's not - but everything isn't so easy and can have consequences you wouldn't expect.

 

And Kreia - I must say I would hate it if someone like her was my teacher/employer/aunt, but still I consider her the most intriguing member of my party! She has some idea about right and wrong, but it is kind of 'twisted' by the Dark (and Light) Side, and also by her life experience. And other characters are more interesting than those in K1 as well, even the droids are a lot more than just brainless killing/repairing units.

[Musopticon?]

Why are you of the sun anyway?

[Nur Ab Sal]

KOTOR story is silly and childish while TSL has dark climate and is full of surprises. But overally it sucks when compared to Shatterpoint or Last Stand on Jabiim or few others star wars masterpieces. I found Mace Windu's

ruminations on the Force from Shatterpoint much more mature and interesting than Kreia's babble merged with exile as hole in the force and traditional revan ass-licking. It all looked like Avellone's extravaganza intended to

shock fans with something philosophically new, but it just turned out to be boring contradiction to the traditional star wars philosophy.

 

Overally it is a very good game but not as good as Last Express or Shadows of Undrentide. And when you compare TSL to Tempest Feud, Riders of the Maelstrom or other classic pen-and-paper SW RPG campaigns, you will find that it has very little true star wars climate.

[Moorglade]

And when you compare TSL to Tempest Feud, Riders of the Maelstrom or other classic pen-and-paper SW RPG campaigns, you will find that it has very little true star wars climate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know these titles, so I cannot compare them with TSL And I'm not saying that TSL is the best what can be achieved, it's just something new and original in SW and PC gaming for me, and it's generally going in the right direction.

 

Why are you of the sun anyway?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, it's from "Tales From Topographic Oceans" by YES , but you probably still don't know what I'm talking about. So if you want, you can visit http://yesworld.com for some further information.

[Dark Moth]

...TSL has dark climate and is full of surprises....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Really? And just what "surprises" are there? And please don't tell me you're referring to the "wound in the force" thing or

Kreia's betrayal.

 

General...We are in General... Use these spoiler tags -Battlewookiee

Edited September 6, 2005 by Battlewookiee

[Sentry]

Perhaps, but I found it annoying when it got too gray.  It was like good and evil didn't exist anymore, and that they were both the same, which isn't true.  I just felt like my choices didn't make much of a difference.  Of course, this is because we had an old witch like Kreia teaching you about right and wrong, even though she had no concept of right and wrong herself.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is true that in TSL there are no tangible consequences for being evil or rewards for being good; crime always seems to pay and the good guys suffer with little relief...

 

BUT, unfortunately, that is pretty true to life.

 

Personally, I welcome a little complexity into the Star Wars universe, but I can see how it would be disturbing. After all, the movies make it seem that the good guys always win in the end and the bad guys always fail...

[Musopticon?]

Why are you of the sun anyway?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, it's from "Tales From Topographic Oceans" by YES , but you probably still don't know what I'm talking about. So if you want, you can visit http://yesworld.com for some further information.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks. I'm sure I will.

[gonzzalez]

I thought the moral ambiguity was a nice change. Its good to blow away cliches from time to time.

[vaxen83]

Actually I was not expecting the Revan story in K1 on my first game. Having it in the middle of the K1 was vacuum-pulled my thoughts from the first-half of the game. Likewise, in K2, my expectations were more like when I first played K1.