Jade Empire Bombed

[Archmonarch]

However, is it the best RPG within recent history? Absolutely not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Which one would you say would be the best CRPG in the last year or so and don't say The Sith Lords. That is an unfinished buggy POS that is getting no support from Obsidian and LA even though they lied to the fans stating that the Movies and music patch would be up in a few days MONTHS ago? Screw that.

 

I no Bioware fanboy but I know what I like and what I don't and I like Jade Empire. The Sith Lords, not so much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was not going to say The Sith Lords. I agree with you. I have been quite busy lately and have not had time for much gaming, but I suppose I would be forced to admit that Jade Empire is the best RPG I have played recently. This is due more to lack of gaming time and scarcity of competition, than any inherent superiority, though.

 

And I never said I didnt like Jade Empire. I enjoyed it. I simply believe it should have been better.

[Judge Hades]

It was as good it needed to be, no more and no less.

[Guest Fishboot]

I must be in the Magical Volo's Bizzaro World.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Can we abolish the stupid micro-writing meme? It was cute once, now it's not, so stop.

[jaguars4ever]

It was as good it needed to be, no more and no less.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's all one can ask.

[Volourn]

"I was not going to say The Sith Lords. I agree with you. I have been quite busy lately and have not had time for much gaming, but I suppose I would be forced to admit that Jade Empire is the best RPG I have played recently. This is due more to lack of gaming time and scarcity of competition, than any inherent superiority, though."

 

Well. If it's the best RPG you played recently (if not the only one) then it most certainly is the best RPG you'v eplayed recently.

 

I've played, btw, JE, KOTOR2, BL, TOEE, HOTU, and a few other RPGs over the last two years and out of them all, JE is eaisly the best.

 

 

"I simply believe it should have been better."

 

if you enjoyed it then it was as good as it should be.

 

Now, if you had said, it *could* have been better then I'd agree.

 

Then again, every game I have *ever* played could have been better.

[Archmonarch]

However, is it the best RPG within recent history? Absolutely not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try not to be offended Archie my friend, but that means you obviously have no taste for a proper role-playing experience which provides sublte to contrasting variations in choices and consequences of action. If you feel you 'figured out the story in 15 mins', then it's your fault for lurking in the spoiler fora - 'cause there's no way you could have guessed the 'plot twist' at that stage!

 

Unless of couse you prefer JRPG's with bubblegum storylines and ZERO roleplaying opportunites, then by all means be free to change your opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dont be worried, my dear sir. I am not in any way offended, secure in the knowledge that I am correct. I have never visted a spoiler fora of any sort until after I have finished the respective game, and even then it is only to see if I have missed any small portion or to help others. I dont like spoiling myself with large parts of the game.

 

But as for your conclusion that it is impossible to determine the storyline within the first fifteen minutes, that actual time might have been an exaggeration. I had however figured it out by the time I finished the Spirit Cave. After the first tutorial bout, your opponent mentions a strangeness about your style. This is what we call foreshadowing, it denotes future events through subtle hints. However, this hint is ever so slightly not at all subtle. I had my suspicions even then. After learning of the Spirit Monks and the few slip ups made by the Master, it was quite obvious to me he was up to something. You are correct in that I had not deduced he planned to gain control over the Empire. However, I was sure he would eventually turn against me (this is called a plot device [a common one at that]), a theory crystallized by the 'flaw in your style' being mentioned by almost every single major opponent.

 

I tend to like surprises in my entertainment. It is little fun to be proven correct every single time you turn the corner, increasingly so when those 'surprises' are formulaic and cliche.

[jaguars4ever]

I must be in the Magical Volo's Bizzaro World.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Can we abolish the stupid micro-writing meme? It was cute once, now it's not, so stop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well given that it's simply a matter of mico-reading the mirco-writing, then it shouldn't be a problem....

 

OH, WAIT A MINUTE, that means you're illiterate. Well, I guess you just have to STFU. That's what I would do if I was illiterate, I'd STFU.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So STFU n00b )

[Archmonarch]

"I simply believe it should have been better."

 

if you enjoyed it then it was as good as it should be.

 

Now, if you had said, it *could* have been better then I'd agree.

 

Then again, every game I have *ever* played could have been better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Companies, especially those with reputations to uphold as leaders of the industry, are responsible not to produce poor products. The story, the main consideration of an RPG, is seriously lacking in JE.

 

There is room for innovation but, you do not in search of that 'next big thing' abandon that which made your previous offerings popular and profitable. Its simple economics, if not common sense.

[Judge Hades]

JE has a safe formuliac story set within an addicting gameplay format. For a game that is Bioware's first serious attempt in an original title and setting I think they did pretty well.

 

JE was never meant to be innovative, but a test for Bioware to see if they are ready to do such games.

[jaguars4ever]

JE has a safe formuliac story set within an addicting gameplay format.  For a game that is Bioware's first serious attempt in an original title and setting I think they did pretty well.

 

JE was never meant to be innovative, but a test for Bioware to see if they are ready to do such games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A test they passed with flying colors, I might add.

[Child of Flame]

Jump = Space

Roll = RMB

Move = W-A-S-D

Heal = Shift

Change Style/Transform = Scroll Wheel

Camera Angle = X/Y Axis on the Mouse

 

What's so hard about that? 

 

Valiant attempt Eru my friend - but that would be rather terrible:

 

A WASD system would be diminish the movement JE's combat entails. The left analog stick allows for a gradation of varying diagonal angles, at which the rate of turning determines the speed.

 

The scroll wheel would be a shocking replacement of the D-Pad. The D-Pad allows to SPECIFICALLY select which form you're using of the fly. With the scroll wheel it would be impossible given the latency of cycling through forms, rather than selecting them outright.

 

Also, you would require two "heals", with the ability to use both at the same time if need by - one of chi, and one for heal.

 

Futher, there isn't just one simple attack - there's also block, power attack and focus. And that doesn't even touch the combination aspect - such as attack + power attack having to be used at the SAME time for area attack etc. And flipping isn't just a matter of one key, as it needs to be specified. Example - block AND the direction AND the target select button (shoulder), will determine the flip/roll.

 

And most importanly, ALL of the above mentioned maneuvers are a thumb's reach away and can be executed on the fly within a fraction of a second.

 

--

 

Failing that, include an option for a joypad. 

 

Assuming there is an attack button, map that to the LMB, and if there's different types of attacks triggered by that attack button, have the attack be modified by the movement keys.

Of course an XBOX clone controller can be used - but that's defeats the purpose of porting as Bioware isn't going to supply you with a controller; nor should you be expected to PURCHASE an addiitional periferal device over an above the odd $50 you just shelled out, just to be able to use the damn software. That's poor business.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Not poor business. A twenty to thirty dollar Logitech Dual Analog joypad is still cheaper than an Xbox for those that have a PC, but can't justify buying an Xbox at the price it's at (there's maybe three games I want on it that I can't get on my Cube or my PC).

 

They put a standard control scheme similar to what I proposed in the game, make it cumbersome but workable, and then in the System Requirements tab on the bottom of the box, along with the crap config under 'Minimum' they have 'Three Button Mouse and Keyboard', and in the 'Recommended' panel, with the components and peripherals required to make the game run well they put 'Dual-Analog Joypad'. This is more than most devs do, and is entirely responsible, given some of the lackluster components you could barely get a game to run on I've seen in the Required tab before.

 

Everyone wins this way, anyone who doesn't use the Recommended Requirements as their basic 'Can I play this game' without researching on the internets should be doing all their gaming on consoles anyway.

[Dhruin]

"I'm still think they would be disappointed with 500k."

 

The article suggests they aren't dissapointed nor do their posts on their forums.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'll stick with Gaider's position on the required sales rather than some positive spin to the public, thanks. You know full well that BioWare are very good marketers and wouldn't publically admit any disappointment.

 

Since I want BioWare to flourish (as I'm sure they will), I wish them much better sales on the next one. Anyway, that's enough for me as this thread goes to crap.

[jaguars4ever]

Not poor business.  A twenty to thirty dollar Logitech Dual Analog joypad is still cheaper than an Xbox for those that have a PC, but can't justify buying an Xbox at the price it's at (there's maybe three games I want on it that I can't get on my Cube or my PC). 

 

They put a standard control scheme similar to what I proposed in the game, make it cumbersome but workable, and then in the System Requirements tab on the bottom of the box, along with the crap config under 'Minimum' they have 'Three Button Mouse and Keyboard', and in the 'Recommended' panel, with the components and peripherals required to make the game run well they put 'Dual-Analog Joypad'.  This is more than most devs do, and is entirely responsible, given some of the lackluster components you could barely get a game to run on I've seen in the Required tab before. 

 

Everyone wins this way, anyone who doesn't use the Recommended Requirements as their basic 'Can I play this game' without researching on the internets should be doing all their gaming on consoles anyway. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is poor business. Period.

 

If the maufacturer (Bioware), provides a dual analog controller (following the XBOX format, not PS2), they are incurring an additonal cost - a cost which could otherwise be avoided; a cost that reduces their profit margin no matter what.

 

Futhermore, forcing/recommending the buyer to PURCHASE additional periferal devices PUTS IT OUT OF THE MARKET. It is flawed to compare XBOX JE to a suppositous PC JE, because they're simply not in the same market base. PC JE doesn't have to compete with XBOX JE - it has to compete with other PC titles. Other titles which don't require you to buy extra input devices just to play the game properly, or other titles where the manufacturer doesn't have to incur further expenditure in including a controller.

[Child of Flame]

Not poor business.  A twenty to thirty dollar Logitech Dual Analog joypad is still cheaper than an Xbox for those that have a PC, but can't justify buying an Xbox at the price it's at (there's maybe three games I want on it that I can't get on my Cube or my PC). 

 

They put a standard control scheme similar to what I proposed in the game, make it cumbersome but workable, and then in the System Requirements tab on the bottom of the box, along with the crap config under 'Minimum' they have 'Three Button Mouse and Keyboard', and in the 'Recommended' panel, with the components and peripherals required to make the game run well they put 'Dual-Analog Joypad'.  This is more than most devs do, and is entirely responsible, given some of the lackluster components you could barely get a game to run on I've seen in the Required tab before. 

 

Everyone wins this way, anyone who doesn't use the Recommended Requirements as their basic 'Can I play this game' without researching on the internets should be doing all their gaming on consoles anyway. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is poor business. Period.

 

If the maufacturer (Bioware), provides a dual analog controller (following the XBOX format, not PS2), they are incurring an additonal cost - a cost which could otherwise be avoided; a cost that reduces their profit margin no matter what.

 

Futhermore, forcing/recommending the buyer to PURCHASE additional periferal devices PUTS IT OUT OF THE MARKET. It is flawed to compare XBOX JE to a suppositous PC JE, because they're simply not in the same market base. PC JE doesn't have to compete with XBOX JE - it has to compete with other PC titles. Other titles which don't require you to buy extra input devices just to play the game properly, or other titles where the manufacturer doesn't have to incur further expenditure in including a controller.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I disagree. Pretty much every platformer on the PC does this, because Keyboard and Mouse are not quite as suitable for some applications.

 

It would not require you to buy another input device to play the game properly, it would require you to buy another input device to make the game more enjoyable.

 

Especially if the story is as good as all of you with Xboxes are saying, the Combat isn't the main focus anyway.

[jaguars4ever]

I disagree.  Pretty much every platformer on the PC does this, because Keyboard and Mouse are not quite as suitable for some applications. 

False.

 

Every competitor PC RPG/adventure title is designed to be properly played with mouse & keyboard. Even RTS & FPS PC titles don't require joypad for "futher enjoyment" as they're designed to be enjoyed with the mouse & keyboard. The only PC genre where joypad/steering wheels/joysticks are recommended/designed over move & keyboard are racing games and flight/space sims (heck, does the latter even exist anymore?), which doesn't really appeal to hypothetical PC JE's market base (apart from the fact they are PC games).

 

If you release an RPG for the PC that isn't desigend to utilize mouse & keyboard, you're putting it out of the market, which is bad business.

 

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[jaguars4ever]

What we really meant to say... :D

[EnderAndrew]

The limited edition preorder copies that were supposed to sell out right away are still sitting on store shelves.

 

Jade Empire was estimated to be a huge hit, and underperformed. There is little denying that or they wouldn't have made so many limited edition copies.

 

I think that Bioware is unfairly worshipped by some, and unfairly bashed by others.

[mkreku]

The best part of this thread is when I read these Jade Empire fanboi's hack away at Bloodlines for having "crappy combat".. You must have done the combat in Jade Empire like me then: with my eyes shut, jumping around and listening to the sounds. When the SAME STUPID FIGHT SOUND stopped hurting my ears, I opened my eyes to see the fight won. Now do that a billion times over and dare say Jade Empire had good combat! Or maybe you fanboi's mean the parts where you turn into a spaceship and Bioware suddenly turn the 'rpg' into a shoot'em up? Well, it was a diversion.. unless it had been so poorly done that the frame rates dropped to single digits and TOTALLY ruined the experience anyhow.

 

Perhaps Jade Empire is the best RPG you've played recently, but it's like.. if you're starved, even poop looks good.

[Judge Hades]

That would only work if you have the game on easy. If you have the game on grand master mode a little strategy would be necessary to win. Also what exactly is bad about the game's combat? It is simple, straightforward, and ets the job done. What more do you want out of a real time combat system?

[mkreku]

That would only work if you have the game on easy.  If you have the game on grand master mode a little strategy would be necessary to win.  Also what exactly is bad about the game's combat?  It is simple, straightforward, and ets the job done.  What more do you want out of a real time combat system?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is there a normal difficulty? I don't think my cousin ever touched the difficulty setting (he usually plays FIFA and NHL). What I'd like is to see some skill involved. Some challenge! Some difficulty! It was so bad that whenever there was a fight, we handed the controller over to my cousin's 6 year old girlfriend's sister's daughter! She loved watching the little characters jumping around on the screen, all the while emitting the same sounds over and over. Can you honestly tell me that you were challenged during any combat parts of the game? Two words: jade golem.

[Judge Hades]

Yes, Jade Golem was an overly strong ability but play the game in Grand Master mode. It makes the game more enjoyable.

 

Of course you get JG pretty much at the end of the game so it doesn't really matter. Never really used either. I just didn't like using the shape changing powers.

[jaguars4ever]

The best part of this thread is when I read these Jade Empire fanboi's hack away at Bloodlines for having "crappy combat".. You must have done the combat in Jade Empire like me then: with my eyes shut, jumping around and listening to the sounds. When the SAME STUPID FIGHT SOUND  stopped hurting my ears, I opened my eyes to see the fight won. Now do that a billion times over and dare say Jade Empire had good combat!

Ignore this fool (even though I like this fool), as he's spewing anti-fanboi crap which arguably is even worse that fanboi crap (which incidently doens't exist in this thread).

 

Normally I would flame some punk who rants like this but mkreku happens to be the third craziest and totally sweet & awesome Swede on the planet (after Kaftan Barlast & Freddy Ljungberg of course!).

 

---

 

 

Or maybe you fanboi's mean the parts where you turn into a spaceship and Bioware suddenly turn the 'rpg' into a shoot'em up? Well, it was a diversion.. unless it had been so poorly done that the frame rates dropped to single digits and TOTALLY ruined the experience anyhow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't knock the Marvelous Dragonfly! It happens to be the BEST MINIGAME EVAR!11!

 

I WIN. YOU LOSE. GAME OVER. [/Volourn].

[Judge Hades]

I just hope the minigame in JE 2 would be more Dragonfly shooting, but this time more like Afterburner than Galaga.

[EnderAndrew]

The enemy AI was still simple and predictable. Changing the difficulty does not change the AI, merely the ammount of damage done or received. I think there was only two or three difficulty levels.

[mkreku]

Actually, I'm just bitter that Jade Empire didn't live up to my own ridiculous expectations. I played the game late, after all the raving reviews from both players and reviewers (99% anyone?) and to me the game was a let-down. I was hoping for something along the lines of KotOR but with real time combat. What I got was.. something streamlined (it didn't feel like an RPG to me) that was pretty good dialogue/story wise, but was lacking in combat, customization (I like paper doll figures, damnit!) and.. er.. mini games (I even prefer pazaak before that shoot'em up game). Then, when the game ended after 13-15 hours, I didn't know if I should be happy or sad.