648 Dead, 322 Hurt in Iraq Bridge Stampede

[Calax]

To tell the truth I'm kinda with Hades on this one, after all "They shoot horses don't they?" I've stated before my views on killing sombody who can't move or have the possibility of getting up. In this case I find it odd that we make so much out of the death of 648 people when in america there are thousands who die due to stupidity, lack of planning, famine, drowning, murder, and about a dozen other causes. To quote stalin ironically "The death of one is a tragety, the death of a thousand is a statistic." and if you look at us it's true, were you to see "2000 die in an attack by Iraqi insurgents" you gents would probably say somthing along the lines of "Finially they decided to fight like men!" despite the fact that 2000+ now lay dead on the field... Ultimatly what it comes down to is that people don't have any connections that matter anymore, so we don't try to make things work. Let humanity die like nature want's it too don't try to save somthing thats doomed itself.

[Commissar]

And you reported my posts, too, so love thy neighbor, you well meaning hypocrite.  )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I actually have yet to hit the Report button on this forum throughout the entirety of my stay here, so try again.

 

Edit: And Eldar can actually confirm that, since he's the one I talked to via PM. All I asked of him was what Lucius had done to get on moderated status since I heard you were involved in that, too, and made it clear that if you happened to be Eldar's pet project, he ought to let me know.

 

I believe I even made it clear that I had no wish to report you (Right, Eldy?).

[Walsingham]

Anyone who feels humanity is worthless, and is a human themselves is ipso facto worthless by their own arguement. I therefore have no compunction in ignoring said arguement.

[Judge Hades]

I don't think that human life is worthless. I just think that human beings are just full of themselves, and that the majority believes that they are better than all other species on the planet.

 

A human life is important, but no more important than any other species' life.

[Walsingham]

I don't think that human life is worthless.  I just think that human beings are just full of themselves, and that the majority believes that they are better than all other species on the planet.

 

A human life is important, but no more important than any other species' life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No gradations? You kill millions of bacteria every time you wash your hair! Or is it only multi-cellular organisms?

[Dark Moth]

^^^ I don't know why, but that made me laugh.

 

Did you know that there are Hinus who won't even kill an insect because they believe everything has a soul, and they hold all life sacred?

[Calax]

^^^  I don't know why, but that made me laugh. 

 

Did you know that there are Hindus who won't even kill an insect because they believe everything has a soul, and they hold all life sacred? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you loose 10 spellmar mothman...

 

and the sect your looking for is the Shiks i think... I find that sort of reverence for life to be a little bit over the top

[Cantousent]

I know there are Buddhists who hold to such a belief. They put cloth over their mouths and walk carefully so as not to step on bugs.

[Calax]

I know there are Buddhists who hold to such a belief.  They put cloth over their mouths and walk carefully so as not to step on bugs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not Buddhist, its an offshoot of Hindu (which technically Bhuddism is too) They think that they can get good karma by never killing anything or giving anything a chance to die by their hand... And I may have been wrong it may be the Jainists. (I have to find my world religions book)

[213374U]

A human life is important, but no more important than any other species' life.

This nonsense was brought to you by Hades, the One and only.

 

Let's see.

 

"Importance" is a human concept, so to begin with, your statement is wrong. Humans are the most "important" thing in anything based on a human notion, as without humans, said notion can not exist. That's as far as simple rhetoric goes.

 

Now, on to biology. Time has proven that only the strongest species survive. Like it or not, if the rest of the species can't adapt to the changes caused by the dominant species on the planet (that is, US), they will become extinct. That's how nature works. Nature doesn't care if you like it or not. Life doesn't have an intrinsic, universal value, life only exists to perpetuate itself. If it cannot fulfill this goal by itself, it simply ends.

Eventually, if we prove that we are too stupid, too reckless, or simply unfit, we will become extinct as well. But so far, I would say we are doing okay.

 

Yeah, I guess it's fine to make stupid comments and be completely unable to back them. But then again, one must be able to withstand the sh*tstorm they are sure to cause. )

[Calax]

no other race will cause its own extinction, on purpose. Only humans have that particular honor...

[Cantousent]

Well, it's a bit early to say we will cause our own extinction, isn't it? I mean, we're still here, talking on the board. If we deplete the world of natural resources or otherwise create mayhem for ourselves, we're just those predators who have over hunted the population.

[Calax]

Considering the only way for us to become extinct is either A) somhow spontanious mutation on a scale that has never been seen creates the XMen and Magneto and Mag's gets his mutant human war... or B) MAD happens and we either hit fallout or we go the way of the dodo.

[jaguars4ever]

Considering the only way for us to become extinct is either A) somhow spontanious mutation on a scale that has never been seen creates the XMen and Magneto and Mag's gets his mutant human war... or B) MAD happens and we either hit fallout or we go the way of the dodo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your're clearly forgetting about those meddling, Alien kids!

[EnderAndrew]

The Plague decimated Europe real quick. Another could happen in theory.

[Walsingham]

Most diseases only kill about 70% of the existing population, then the density gets too low, and those with immunity survive. Don't forget that rats beneath many UK cities still carry _the_ plague bacillus.

 

I feel I should add that I'm all for keeping animals. I don't simply say nuts to them. I think tigers and rhinos and platypi are inspirational. Moreover I have friends who work as game rangers and they routinely shoot people to protect the animals. I have no problem with that. However, as a general rule I believe in the paramount importance of the Human race.

[Judge Hades]

This nonsense was brought to you by Hades, the One and only. 

 

Let's see.

 

"Importance" is a human concept, so to begin with, your statement is wrong. Humans are the most "important" thing in anything based on a human notion, as without humans, said notion can not exist. That's as far as simple rhetoric goes.

 

What you say here is irrelevant. Importance is a human concept yes, but that does not change the fact that we are no more important than other species. Without the notion of importance we simply are like any other species. With the "importance" concept we are no more important than any other species. So with or without the human concept of "importance" all things are still equal.

 

Now, on to biology. Time has proven that only the strongest species survive. Like it or not, if the rest of the species can't adapt to the changes caused by the dominant species on the planet (that is, US), they will become extinct. That's how nature works. Nature doesn't care if you like it or not. Life doesn't have an intrinsic, universal value, life only exists to perpetuate itself. If it cannot fulfill this goal by itself, it simply ends.

Eventually, if we prove that we are too stupid, too reckless, or simply unfit, we will become extinct as well. But so far, I would say we are doing okay.

 

No, we are not doing okay. We are damaging the earth's environment, just one button away from nuclear devastation, and too dependent on dwindling natural resources.

 

Yeah, I guess it's fine to make stupid comments and be completely unable to back them. But then again, one must be able to withstand the sh*tstorm they are sure to cause.  )

 

That is okay, I forgive you.

[213374U]

With the "importance" concept we are no more important than any other species.

That is where you stopped thinking with your head and started pulling stuff out of your ass. That is a random conclusion, not supported by any observations, or reached by any reasoning. Therefore, the rest of the post is just plain wrong, since it's based on a random proposition.

 

No. A hierarchy where some things have a higher value than others is a human construct. For that notion to even exist, there must be a human to establish it. Therefore, humans are the only indispensable premise, and thusly, the most important factor. We're talking "importance" here. It's you who brought up what is more important than what. I already said that life has no intrinsic value.

 

 

No, we are not doing okay.  We are damaging the earth's environment, just one button away from nuclear devastation, and too dependent on dwindling natural resources.

And that is a risk to the human race as a whole... how? We are a species in expansion, and it doesn't look like that trend is going to change. Plus, we have the highest adaptability factor of any known living being. We are already reaching a point where we can supply with technology what we can't get from nature.

Even in a worst case scenario (MAD, ELE), it's unlikely that humanity would be wiped out completely. Again, it's just survival of the fittest. And with all our faults, we are the fittest on this planet.

 

Keep dreaming of doomsday, Hades. I'll be sure to wake you in the morning.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"We are already reaching a point where we can supply with technology what we can't get from nature."

 

Coming more and more closer, but that doesn't mean we'll ever hit it. Until we know for certain, I don't think it's a smart gamble to make.

[Judge Hades]

Numberboy, if you think that nuclear devastation isn't a threat to the human species as a whole then you have real problems.

[Walsingham]

"Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics - and you'll get ten different answers. But there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on: whether it happens in a hundred years, or a thousand years, or a million years, eventually our sun will grow cold, and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us, it'll take Marilyn Monroe, and Lao-tsu, Einstein, Maruputo, Buddy Holly, Aristophanes - all of this. All of this was for nothing, unless we go to the stars." -- Babylon5

 

And our ability to go to the stars will arise from our relentless drive to dominate nature, not be dominated by it. Without that drive we really might count for no more than tigers.

[213374U]

Coming more and more closer, but that doesn't mean we'll ever hit it. Until we know for certain, I don't think it's a smart gamble to make.

I'll let you apply the same logic to the statement "we are getting close to the point where this planet will no longer be able to support human life".

 

 

Numberboy, if you think that nuclear devastation isn't a threat to the human species as a whole then you have real problems.

It's not. Please find proof that massive nuclear warfare will drive the human species to extinction.

 

 

And our ability to go to the stars will arise from our relentless drive to dominate nature, not be dominated by it. Without that drive we really might count for no more than tigers.

Fortunately, There's Money To Be Made in dominating nature.

[Walsingham]

213374U, are completely off your nut? Large scale nuclear exchange would precipitate not just a radiation hazard several thousand times what we can stand, but also a dust cloud that would trigger what is jovially referred to as a 'nuclear winter', as heat from the sun cannot reach the planet's surface. Even if we were not cooked, irradiated, or choked every food source we use WOULD be. Ergo, we die. We all die. The survival in vaults idea is cute, but utterly impractical.

 

Actually there's no money in space exploration so longa s we agree to share the proceeds. We need to grant exclusive rights of colonisation to settled areas for nations and private companies. THEN we'll see some action.

[213374U]

213374U, are completely off your nut? Large scale nuclear exchange would precipitate not just a radiation hazard several thousand times what we can stand, but also a dust cloud that would trigger what is jovially referred to as a 'nuclear winter', as heat from the sun cannot reach the planet's surface. Even if we were not cooked, irradiated, or choked every food source we use WOULD be. Ergo, we die. We all die. The survival in vaults idea is cute, but utterly impractical.

I'm familiar with the concept of nuclear winter. But again, try to find proof that it would destroy all life on Earth. You will find none. The Cretaceous-Tertiary ELE caused similar effects, and only ~50% of all species were destroyed. Most of them were highly specialized organisms with little adaptive capacity.

 

Also, I suggest you do some research on nuclear ordnance, and you will find that thermonuclear warheads (the kind of nuclear weaponry needed to cause the massive fires needed to trigger a nuclear winter) are relatively clean in comparison to their standard counterparts, so the radiation clouds would not be as bad as you presume.

 

Yes, it would be a catastrophe, and civilization would perhaps be set back a few hundred years, but mankind would not become extinct.

 

And how are you so sure that "vaults" are impractical? I don't have specific data on what the US govt. contingency plans for nuclear war are. Somehow, I doubt you do, either.

 

 

Actually there's no money in space exploration so longa s we agree to share the proceeds. We need to grant exclusive rights of colonisation to settled areas for nations and private companies. THEN we'll see some action.

Right now, the cost of putting stuff in orbit is too high, and the benefits are not such a big deal. But give it some time, until going into orbit isn't much more expensive than going to Taiwan.

 

Also, granting exclusive rights only encourages monopolies, and that in turn tends to cause the system to stagnate. Let them rip each other apart for being the first to build a mall on Mars.

[metadigital]

I know there are Buddhists who hold to such a belief.  They put cloth over their mouths and walk carefully so as not to step on bugs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not Buddhist, its an offshoot of Hindu (which technically Bhuddism is too) They think that they can get good karma by never killing anything or giving anything a chance to die by their hand... And I may have been wrong it may be the Jainists. (I have to find my world religions book)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Dalai Lama does not swat mosquitoes, until the third bite, at which time he carefully shoos them away ...