648 Dead, 322 Hurt in Iraq Bridge Stampede

[Calax]

Not quite. but almost Meta. I have read Starship troopers and some of Asimovs stuff. I'm trying to find a copy of Dante's Inferno but normally bookstores like Borders or Powells don't have it...

[EnderAndrew]

The story I heard last night when the story first broke was that the mortal shots had been earlier in the day which weakened the bridge. The mortal shots were not into the crowd when it was gathered. A rumor of a suicide bomber caused everyone to flee, which caused a stampede, and the weakened bridge also broke causing some people to plummet 30 meters.

[Cantousent]

Good way to bring the topic back, Ender.

 

With the Hurricane killing people here and folks killing each other in Iraq, it's been a depressing day.

[Judge Hades]

Eldar, people die all the time. Its only a matter of how and when. It is no more depressing than waking up from a midafternoon snooze. There are more than 6 billion people on this planet. A thousand here and a thousand there dead isn't going to change anything in the grand scheme of things and we are in no danger of becoming extinct. In fact, Eldar, we have more people alive and kicking than there has ever died in recorded history.

 

2 to 4 Billion people dead at once would be depressing and alarming.

[EnderAndrew]

Hades let me tell you a brief story.

 

There are two people on a beach, a small boy and an old man. Before them on the beach there are thousands of starfish that were swept on shore from a powerful storm the previous night.

 

The boy is walking down the shore, picking up starfish one by one and with all his muster, tossing them back into the sea.

 

The old man casts a stern glance and says, "what are you doing? You can't possibly save them all. What difference does it make?"

 

The boy stops and thinks before picking up another. "It matters to this one."

[Walsingham]

Classic there, Ender.

 

And you chaps should bear in mind Afghanistan more when discussing Iraq. We haven't coughed up enough of the dough we promised them, but the work there is making steady modest progress. And people I have spoken to out there are hungry, afraid of foreign domination, and scared of violence, but they have hope for teh future. they are determined to move forward and make life better for themselves. And universally they acknowledge it would not be possible to do so if we had not invaded, and if we weren't assisting them, and trying to provide as much security as possible.

 

We're talking about ten years for either country becoming healthy being a bloody miracle, but it will be well worth it.

 

BTW, julianw, if you think it was us who reduced Afghanistan to the bombed-out wasteland it is now you need to check your facts. Two prime suspects to get you started: the Soviet Union, and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar.

[Judge Hades]

Hades let me tell you a brief story.

 

There are two people on a beach, a small boy and an old man.  Before them on the beach there are thousands of starfish that were swept on shore from a powerful storm the previous night.

 

The boy is walking down the shore, picking up starfish one by one and with all his muster, tossing them back into the sea.

 

The old man casts a stern glance and says, "what are you doing?  You can't possibly save them all.  What difference does it make?"

 

The boy stops and thinks before picking up another.  "It matters to this one."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yet, the boy is trying to exert his will over something that occured naturally. The human race is over populated, over industrilized, and overly destructive towards its own species. In the grander scheme in the life cycles of this planet, it would be better off if there were less humans mucking things up.

[EnderAndrew]

Yet, the boy is trying to exert his will over something that occured naturally.  The human race is over populated, over industrilized, and overly destructive towards its own species.  In the grander scheme in the life cycles of this planet, it would be better off if there were less humans mucking things up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A friend of mine works for a company called Nanometrics and they build stages to measure down below picometers and such, so that people can use such small measurements in building hard drives, processors, etc.

 

He told me the industry is at a stand still because hard drive layers can't get any smaller, and processors can't get any smaller. What will people do?

 

Except people have been saying the same thing for 20 years and we keep making breakthroughs.

 

The exact same thing can be said for population. The reason that hunger is so prevalant in the world is that few countries know how to properly be self-sustained. I watched a special on how a gentleman (can't remember his name) has been travelling to third world countries and teaching them advanced horticulture techniques to end world hunger. The UN said that man has probably saved 1 billion lives over the past 50 years. Due to men like him, the world's population has tripled from 2 billion to 6 billion. And look at all the empty space we still have.

 

No doubt we can continue to learn to be exponentially more efficient as time goes by.

 

Regardless of population, your disregard for the sanctity of human life is duly noted.

[Judge Hades]

Thing is ENdar, I don't hold human life any more important that seal life, or dolphin life, or penguin life. Just because we can harness the power of the atom does not make use any more important or less important than any other species on this planet.

[EnderAndrew]

That is beside the point. You said earlier that a few hundred people or a few thousand people dead isn't depressing but a few billion people would be.

 

Individual human lives mean nothing to you then.

[Walsingham]

Thing is ENdar, I don't hold human life any more important that seal life, or dolphin life, or penguin life.  Just because we can harness the power of the atom does not make use any more important or less important than any other species on this planet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Riiiight. So the fact that we have actually mastered nature in many respects, are self-aware, empathise with one-another's suffering. Build things visible from space, and may one day spread to other planets ...puts us on the same level as a whelk.

 

I tell you what. Later on I am going to find two ants. I will kill these ants unless you kill yourself. Since you hold human life to be equivalent, surely this is a fair exchange?

 

NOTE: even if you are crazy enough to do this, please don't.

[jaguars4ever]

That is beside the point.  You said earlier that a few hundred people or a few thousand people dead isn't depressing but a few billion people would be.

 

Individual human lives mean nothing to you then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe the numbers he was quoting to directly proportional to a threat posed on our very existance.

 

In other words 20 human deaths pales to say, 20 Bengal Tiger deaths.

[Judge Hades]

There was only one individual human life that mattered to me and she is long gone.

 

Nowadays an individual human life has no greater value to than an individual life of any other species on this planet, except the species that are on the verge of extinction by human expansion.

 

Jagster understands my view quite well. :D

[Walsingham]

There was only one individual human life that mattered to me and she is long gone.

 

Nowadays an individual human life has no greater value to  than an individual life of any other species on this planet, except the species that are on the verge of extinction by human expansion.

 

Jagster understands my view quite well.  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hold on a minute. Doesn't the very fact that we humans can appreciate and mourn the extinction of another species make us special?

 

As Peter Cook once said

 

"Save the whales! Save the whales? I don't recall any whales rallying round us when our shores were threatened by Nazism."

 

A human life has immense potential. You or I could shape the world, write music to inspire millions, plumb the deepest mysteries of physics, or comprehend reality in totally unexpected ways while simply eating an orange. What can a tiger do? It can be a tiger. Any sense of beauty or majesty only adheres to the damned animal because we say it does.

[Judge Hades]

A human life has immense potential. You or I could shape the world, write music to inspire millions, plumb the deepest mysteries of physics, or comprehend reality in totally unexpected ways while simply eating an orange. What can a tiger do? It can be a tiger. Any sense of beauty or majesty only adheres to the damned animal because we say it does.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

And that makes a human more important? We also live out of balance with nature, we murder and kill for sport, and can cause mass destruction on a global scale. What can a tiger do? It can live in balance. Something we humans have very little ability to do.

[Cantousent]

Alas, I take no pleasure in the death of tigers.

 

If I had to choose between the death of a human and the death of another animal, I would choose life for the human, imperfections and all.

 

I don't really know you all that well Hades. I've seen you online for the some time and read a lot of what you have to say, and you have a lot to say. I've noted some of you tendencies and attitudes.

 

Even though I don't really know you, I have come to the conclussion that, no matter how embittered, flippant, and obnoxious you seem at times, you are a decent human being at heart. It's a gut instinct.

 

I believe, given the actual choice of life or death, you would choose the human also.

[213374U]

And that makes a human more important?  We also live out of balance with nature, we murder and kill for sport, and can cause mass destruction on a global scale.  What can a tiger do?  It can live in balance.  Something we humans have very little ability to do.

ban plz

[Atreides]

And that makes a human more important?  We also live out of balance with nature, we murder and kill for sport, and can cause mass destruction on a global scale.  What can a tiger do?  It can live in balance.  Something we humans have very little ability to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tigers live in balance because they don't have a choice. Predator numbers tend to follow their prey numbers. If prey's high, predators increase and when they overhunt prey numbers fall followed by a decline in predator numbers. There's no such thing as a tiger trying to live in balance. They're forced to.

 

Humans on the other hand can try to live in semi-balance. At the very least we can be "forced to", though our "force" tollerance is higher than tigers.

[Judge Hades]

Of course I would, Eldar, for I am human. We humans, for the most part, need to stick together.

[Judge Hades]

ban plz

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you don't like what I have to say, don't read it.

 

After all no one is forcing you to click the button. Saying "ban plz" is just childish and immature. Add to the discussion at hand or don't respond.

[Commissar]

ban plz

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you don't like what I have to say, don't read it.

 

After all no one is forcing you to click the button. Saying "ban plz" is just childish and immature. Add to the discussion at hand or don't respond.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're talking to Captain Kneejerk. He thinks he's won an argument if he successfully manages to report your post. Just ignore it and move on.

[Cantousent]

You know what's funny? Is when two people argue in a thread and both report the other. hahaha. Hasn't happened in this thread, though.

 

Seriously, though, send all "banz" requests to Eldar@lovethyneighborandstopbeingrudeandmean.com. Don't post them in the thread. Especially these silly two word requests.

 

Don't worry, Hades, if we banned folks based on requests, there's someone who has both you and numbers beat hands down.

 

I still think the ambush was horrible. Of course, I'm a self avowed wimp, so that shouldn't be surprising.

[213374U]

If you don't like what I have to say, don't read it.

 

After all no one is forcing you to click the button.  Saying "ban plz" is just childish and immature.  Add to the discussion at hand or don't respond.

You've been saying the same crap over and over since you registered. I'll start adding to the discussion at hand when you do that.

 

Until then

 

be kind to Hades

 

 

You're talking to Captain Kneejerk.  He thinks he's won an argument if he successfully manages to report your post.  Just ignore it and move on.

No, that's Volourn you're talking about. I don't even need to report your posts to defeat them, they are stupid enough on their own.

 

And you reported my posts, too, so love thy neighbor, you well meaning hypocrite. )

 

ELDAR EDIT: I tried to keep to the original meaning of your post when I made the edits.

[213374U]

How is "Ban PLZ" against forum guidelines?

 

And now I can't use acronyms either?

 

I guess when other people are offended by my opinion that will be censored as well? Get real.

 

Funny how STFU and BAN PLZ get edited, but "captain kneejerk" is perfectly fine.

 

Hooray for coherence!

[Cantousent]

Aw, I don't think "ban plz" is particularly bad. I mean, I see those sorts of one liners all the time. Hades took offense, though, and so I thought I'd change the message. On the other hand, calling someone a "worthless" anything is probably bad.

 

Anyhow, pipe down or I won't be in your hip pocket anymore.

 

Now, as for folks killing each other in Iraq, I think we're lucky the lot of us aren't close packed in a room somewhere. We might not leave alive.

 

Iraq isn't remarkable in that folks committ violence against each other there. Iraq just happens to be a place with a lot of opportunity for mayhem. I don't think we're going to end up in WWIII over Iraq. In the long term, I have faith that we'll end up okay in the end. ...But there are a lot of folks who will die in the meantime.