Does Revan's fate make any sense?

[Nur Ab Sal]

After playing TSL, despite my respect for its great storyline, I'm almost sure that KIII will be the worst of the entire series if next developer will decide to continue Revan blurb. This entire "true sith" thing and trip to unknown regions sounds more lame than most of the EU crap. Does OE really had to continue these boring and unclear revanesque suckage? In any way in KIII we'll meet big disappointment cause Star Wars witnessed hidden threats and unknown dangers far too many times - and always it was just an excuse for authors' lack of imagination. I suspect that Avellone was deflated and so he decided to avoid showing Revan's fate and tell story of some big dark unknown threat that captured Revan... anyhow in KIII true sith and this hidden danger will prove to be just another BIG NOTHING.

 

This is just a digression and nothing more, cause despite time limit, TSL proved to be better game than KOTOR could have ever been. Bioware idlers had 3 years and

all they did, was copying Neverwinter Nights story and characters. Obsidian had one year and made explosive story, better movies, better feats and force powers, better worlds and side quests... but why they decided to overshadow TSL

main quest with Revan's story? In TSL the potential of interesting characters like Atris or Nihilus was virtually unused, and all story seems so insignificant - in the end gamer learns that all his actions are meaningless cause all that matters is Revan's fate in the unknown regions. So his effort in finishing the game was also meaningless - he could just wait for KIII to hear again how great Revan is...

 

One year ago I imagined that TSL story will have this shape:

LS K1ending: Revan's working for Jedi Council and whether you are LS or DS you either cooperate with him or have to kill him

DS K1 ending: Revan and Bastila almost conquered Republic and no matter if you're DS or LS you have to eliminate them... perhaps during final battle for coruscant on their flagship

 

I also imagined that Nihilus and Sion will be Revan's lackeys (DS K1 ending)or independent players (LS K1 ending)

 

Instead, we hear that genius Revan supposedly was, suddenly abandoned his armies and followers (although nothing stood between him and crushing the republic) and left them rot. Republic is fatigued but in much better shape than in K1, Bastila transformed herself from ass-kicking heroine to sex slave waiting for Revan and doing nothing else - this makes no sense.

 

This is subjective of course but I think that TSL would be much more satysfying if Revan's Problem got solved in it, instead of inventing some true sith... this would left a lot of free space for KIII story. Only thing that was always bothering me in KOTOR series was Revan and his faceless, ridiculously perfect and unbelievable person. In 2003 I believed in advertising slogan "Engage in the golden era saga" and that I will be able to create my own character and his own story. Yet in half of the game it turned out that my all choices were insignificant cause bioware forced their own hero with his own story (let's add poorly written) so I felt cheated... it is sad that KOTOR series is full of praises for some jackass that doesn't even have official face, gender or life details. What Mike Gallo wants to achieve anyway? In KIII all these rubbish revan/true sith threads will have to be revealed and I doubt anyone will be satisfied. Wouldn't it be better if Revan wasn't ever invented and KOTOR would be a Revan-free game? Surely there is a plenty of stories that could be told instead of his pathetic saga. People like John Ostrander prove that you can tell serious and interesting stories in the star wars universe, without escaping into creation of a jedi superman who is worshipped as god by his contemporaries.

[Draken]

........

 

I'm upset, but only because what you say is actually true. The whole Revan saga has taken away KOTOR 2's thunder. Without Revan, I feel that KOTOR 2 would have been the better game. However, KOTOR 3 I think, will be an excellent game nonetheless, but I think it may have a few flaws because the developers tried to finish Revan's story instead of the actual gameplay.

[Dark Moth]

That's why I say repeatedly that they should have left Revan out of K2. At least, they shouldn't have made it a direct continuation of K1. Revan was brought up so many times, and his fate didn't make sense. At the end of K2, I had hoped for some closure on Revan, but we got the stupid blurb about the "True Sith" and that was it. Big disappointment. Yet another instance where the devs dropped the ball. As long as Chris Avellone stays far away from K3, I don't think we'll have that much to worry about, though.

[subnubilus]

That's why I say repeatedly that they should have left Revan out of K2.  At least, they shouldn't have made it a direct continuation of K1.  Revan was brought up so many times, and his fate didn't make sense.  At the end of K2, I had hoped for some closure on Revan, but we got the stupid blurb about the "True Sith" and that was it.  Big disappointment.  Yet another instance where the devs dropped the ball.  As long as Chris Avellone stays far away from K3, I don't think we'll have that much to worry about, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I like Chris from what I've read in his interviews. Why is everyone here giving him so much crap? I'm not criticizing anyone, just wondering why he's getting the finger for alleged problems.

[Krookie]

Does Revan's fate make any sense?

 

Yes, yes it does.

[GhostofAnakin]

I like Chris from what I've read in his interviews.  Why is everyone here giving him so much crap?  I'm not criticizing anyone, just wondering why he's getting the finger for alleged problems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He's the lead designer and writer. Because of that it seems he gets 100% of the following:

 

-if the person liked TSL, he gets all the praise for great writing

-if the person disliked TSL, he gets all the blame for poor writing

 

I liked the writing and I thought TSL's dialogue was deeper than KOTOR I, but regardless one thing people should keep in mind: Obsidian was allowed to write the story of TSL, but Lucasarts placed certain conditions on what had to be included and what couldn't be included. Perhaps the "True Sith" was a mandate from Lucasarts, and thus it became Obsidian's job to try and make it work in the story.

[Nur Ab Sal]

I like Chris from what I've read in his interviews.  Why is everyone here giving him so much crap?  I'm not criticizing anyone, just wondering why he's getting the finger for alleged problems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This isn't Chris' fault that gredy LA gave him so little time - but it's his fault that he screwed TSL near-perfect story with true sith/revan blurb which turns out to be more important than struggle with nihilus.

[GhostofAnakin]

This isn't Chris' fault that gredy LA gave him so little time - but it's his fault that he screwed TSL near-perfect story with true sith/revan blurb which turns out to be more important than struggle with nihilus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nurbie, keep this in mind:

 

but regardless one thing people should keep in mind: Obsidian was allowed to write the story of TSL, but Lucasarts placed certain conditions on what had to be included and what couldn't be included.  Perhaps the "True Sith" was a mandate from Lucasarts, and thus it became Obsidian's job to try and make it work in the story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Nur Ab Sal]

That would clear his name, but I thought that LA gave OE free hand except for identity flashback?

[GhostofAnakin]

That was the one thing they mentioned, but I believe they said there was still some other things that Lucasarts said they had to include, and also some things they weren't allowed to include.

 

I'm just speculating here. Maybe the True Sith was Obsidian's idea 100%. But Lucasarts is known for some pretty dumb ideas (just look at LFL's novel ideas in the EU), and if Lucasarts wanted Obsidian to do that cliff hangar ending, chances are they're the ones that gave the specifics about why there was going to be a cliff hangar (ie. True Sith).

[metadigital]

Surely there is scope for some "unknown" stuff in the galaxy 4000 years beforehand to be some of the known stuff hence?

 

In other words, couldn't the unknown menace be just >insert something not mentioned in the two KotOR games here that already exists in SW<?

 

Don't forget, though, that it seems pretty obvious that the writers had to place the sequel near to the first in game time, yet not include any specifics about the story from it. Banishing Revan, alone, to "beyond the Outer Rim" simply takes care of Revan popping up as an NPC, as well as the motive for going and explaining awkward questions like why isn't Revan running the galaxy.

 

The "True Sith" are alos nebulous enough to be fleshed in at a later date; they might easily just say that the "True Sith" are a "New Sith", or an "Old Sith", much older than the "True Sith", etc.

 

So Revan and the True Sith are just relagated to markers, for future games / EU to take advantage of, and not interfere with the K2 story.

 

Which is a cop-out, really.

[Cathryn]

The "off fighting the true Sith" (instead of a final confrontation with the Exile) loophole sure feels more like a LA-driven idea than Obsidian's. I don't see why they felt that they couldn't resolve Revan one way or another - maybe it put too many restrictions on the K3 setting? That's the precedent set when they let you pick from the K1 LS/DS endings at the beginning of K2. But they had to do something with him, and the other two options end up with him as a major character - or dead. I personally wouldn't have wanted to hear about that after the fact. It seems like they picked the fastest/easiest way out - which would be consistent with the rush of the story ending. Still, I personally adore Revan's character and harassed Kriea endlessly until I got enough influence from her to hear more. For me, not mentioning him at all would have been worse than the botched job of the future storyline. Maybe that is the mindset they were playing to, even if what I see posted on the boards generally says that's just me.

[SteveThaiBinh]

...Lucasarts wanted Obsidian to do that cliff hangar ending, chances are they're the ones that gave the specifics about why there was going to be a cliff hangar (ie. True Sith).

I'm surprised there haven't been any rumours or leaks from the LA team that was sacked last year while Kotor 3 was in pre-production. They presumably had been told what LucasArts wanted to do with the third game - in fact, they might have been the ones telling Obsidian what to do with the ending of Kotor 2. And since they were dumped by LucasArts, why aren't they dishing the dirt?

[BattleCookiee]

NDA's...

 

Big Fines...

Trials...

 

That kind of stuff.

[GhostofAnakin]

I'm surprised there haven't been any rumours or leaks from the LA team that was sacked last year while Kotor 3 was in pre-production.  They presumably had been told what LucasArts wanted to do with the third game - in fact, they might have been the ones telling Obsidian what to do with the ending of Kotor 2.  And since they were dumped by LucasArts, why aren't they dishing the dirt?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Anyone know if Mike Gallo was one of the ones sacked? If not, why not? :darthgallo:

[Musopticon?]

:darthgallo:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just wondering what kind of emoticon that would make

[SteveThaiBinh]

:darthgallo:

Just wondering what kind of emoticon that would make

In the way GoA means it, nothing that would pass the censor, I think. :ph34r:

 

NDA's...

 

Big Fines...

Trials...

 

That kind of stuff.

LucasArts does seem to have great power to intimidate. Maybe they're all hoping to be taken back in the current round of hiring. Maybe they will be.

[Krookie]

Who's this 'gallo' guy?

[erei33]

Well to keep the chain *cough*cough*money*cough*cough* La needs to have a loophole story. I agree I enjoyed the Exiles story and finding lost jedi much more than searching for star maps. Also K2 brought a new meaning to darkside dialogue. In K2 it really feels like you are the exile. Idealy a great KOTOR game would be the exile in the mando wars, why he left how he fought etc was all choosen by you. Plus that type of game could include T3 HK and Bao-dur. And yes K3 will be so complicated it will be insane. There will be many variables defining the story. ( Was Revan male or female, was he DS or LS is he DS or LS now? Was Exile male or female, was he LS or DS is he LS or DS now?) The best way to produce K3 would be to simply have 1 set story or maybe just 2.( Revans good Exiles evil or Revans evil Exiles good.)

[Gabrielle]

Revans fate made sense, yes.

[Krookie]

Revans fate made sense, yes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's what I said, but no...nobody listins to me.

[DAWUSS]

And we know the Exile quit her path to find Revan and ended up committing suicide since Malachor V was no more... "

[Gabrielle]

No, no. The Exile is a goddess there for she became ruler of the entire galaxy.

[erei33]

On the topic of the ending what was up with those LS and DS endings?

the planet blowing up (LS) and the planet blowing up and kreia saving you (DS)

[metadigital]

The one on the left, next to the one Revan is ruling.