Why cant someone make a real RPG?

[Guest Fishboot]

It's fun to try. A shotgun blast to the back of her head usually does the trick. But Lebedev gets it, regardless of what you do since UNATCO has the hangar surrounded.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Stick a LAM in the hallway behind Lebedev - Navarre will get blown to bits before she even gets into the room with you. It's hilariously slapstick. I only wish it affected the dialogs afterwards. "She got careless - I don't disarm every last mine I see, for God's sake! She screwed the pooch, and she's dead! My God, are you crying Gunther? Show a little backbone!"

 

It's also actually possible to knock out Lebedev and carry him personally back to UNATCO (and I think eventually to Hell's Kitchen), but the storyline does not acknowledge that he isn't dead.

 

[metadigital]

ROFLMAO

 

I nearly always kill her with a sneak attack (and of course she explodes, stupid biatch), but I hadn't thought of that ... :D ... Now, should I finish my DX:IW game first ...?

[GhostofAnakin]

I do think it is quite obvious that Roshan meant meaningful consequences. And, if you assume that he did, it is quite relevant whether or not the consequences were properly implemented.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"The character I made had no impact oin the game whatsoever. Everyone treated me the same way as if I had made any other character. I couldnt be evil because then the guards would be all over me."

 

His exact quote which I was referring to. If you want to agree with that comment he made, then be my guest. IMO, that sounded a bit contradictory since in one breath he's saying his actions had NO effect regardless of what kind of character he played as. Then the next he stated that if he was evil, it HAD an effect.

 

But if your interpretation is different, by all means agree with him.

[alanschu]

If I can find IW, I plan on picking that up too.

 

I know it's not as good, but surely it's worth the $10 I can find it for?

[roshan]

It's because of the software piracy!

 

 

 

(huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge inside joke that Ender might get, and maybe some of the other old skool guys).

 

 

On a side note, leave to Roshan to state that he misses the old days of RPG gaming, while complaining about an RPG that came out before PS:T (in fact, the engine was used by Planescape: Torment).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actuially I didnt mentioini anythign aboiuit oild days, I oinily mentioined specific games. Toi be hoinest I doiinit think 3 goioid games coiuild make the perioid the goiioid oiild days. Balduirs gate was juist a randoimi example. If yoiui want yoiui can suibstituite it foir moiisit oif the rpgs oiuit there.

 

PS. My keyboiaird is buiisted.

[roshan]

I just want to rant about the general crappiness of all the rpgs out there. Why the hell cant rpgs offer multiple solutions to quests, changing dialogue and have the choices you make impact the game and its storyline? What the hell is so difficult about implementing this? So far the only rpgs Ive played that have these features are Torment and the Fallouts.

 

Recently I replayed Icewind Dale 2. It wasnt bad at all. I had a good time killing the monsters and building up my characters. In fact I got really into the game and had a great time. However, recently, I downloaded Tutu, a program that makes Baldurs Gate 1 use the BG2 engine and thus adds all the new featuires found in the game. I alsoi downloaded several mods for baldurs gate 1. At first as I wandered towards Beregost I got into the game, primarily due to noistalgia. But as I did quests I quckly got bored and decided to stop playing the game. It was simply horrible and unbearable. The character I made had no impact oin the game whatsoever. Everyone treated me the same way as if I had made any other character. I couldnt be evil because then the guards would be all over me. All the quests could only be solved using one way, and my choces abouit whether to do the quiests or not were completely meaningless to the game and its story.

 

UInlike Fallout and Torment, which I have replayed innumerable times, Baldurs Gate did not provide any sort of meaningful roleplaying opportunities. Aside from the statistics and the experience, it was basically an adventure game.

 

I just miss the old days of playing Fallout and PST, and Im longing for a new game that can provide a similar experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Try Arcanum, one of my favourite rpg title. Also, you can try Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I woiuild never play Arcanuiim. I have standards.

 

As foiir Vampire I doiiinit play FP rpgs.

[roshan]

I couldnt be evil because then the guards would be all over me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I find it a little ironic that his post complains about games not allowing you to choose various ways to play the game and has no affect on the game world, then makes the above statement when a game does offer something different if you make one of those choices.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actuiially that is a mechanic that was puit intoi place in oirder toii stoip peoiiple froiimi being evil.

 

See, in Falloiuit 2, if yoiui massacred a few toiiwns oir became a slaver, yoiui coiiuild still coimiplete the game. Yoiiui woiuild have boiuinty huinters all oivier yoiiui, and peoiple in the toiiwns woiuild react toi yoiuir being an evil bastard.

 

Buit in Balduirs Gate, rather than making peoiple react throiuigh dialoiguie, they instead decided toi make guiairds attack yoiu, and when that happens the entire toiwn attacks yoiui, and wherever yoiui goi in the gamewoirld guiards and civilians will all attack yoiui. This ends whatever roiile playing experience yoiui were having and makes coiimipleting the game impoissible. Thuis, killing peoiple in balduirs gate resuiilts in a de factoi game oiver foir yoiiui. The guiards in balduiiris gate were oinily there toi foice players into taking the goioidiy twoii shoieis roiuite.

[roshan]

"I find it a little ironic that his post complains about games not allowing you to choose various ways to play the game and has no affect on the game world, then makes the above statement when a game does offer something different if you make one of those choices."

 

Well, Baldur's Gate practically punished the player for doing evil deeds, instead of presenting believable consequences for them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly. Well said.

[roshan]

"I'm not sure I even understand the point you're trying to make."

 

The point is the guards attacking you in Baldur's Gate was less of a consequence of your actions in the game world, and more of a game mechanic intended to punish you for evil actions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never argued how well or how poorly they did it. I simply pointed out that roshan's comment was inaccurate when he inferred that you can only play BG ONE way since playing it as good or evil yields the same result. That's not the case, as if you're evil, the game "punishes" you big time by having guards attack.

 

Whether that was properly implemented is irrelevant, since it was just a matter of whether ANYTHING different happens depending on how you play. If roshan's original comment was accurate, then regardless of whether you were good or evil, the guards would react to you the same way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yoiiui cannoit "play" balduiris gate 1 as an evil character becauiise perfoiirming oine evil actioin resuilts in de factoi game oiver. After doiiing an evil actioin(even petty theivery), EVERYOINE EVERYWHERE attacks yoiui, thuiis preventing yoiiuir proigiress in the game and foiircing yoiui toi quiit the game and reloiaid and take the goioiidy twoi shoiieis roiuite in oiirider toii be able toii coiinitinuie. Being able toi perfoiirm ONE evil act befoire getting a de factoi game over hardly constituites being able toii PLAY THE GAME as an evil character.

 

Alsoi take note that I specifically mentioiinied "meaningfuil" roileplaying oippoirtinuities in my poist. The key woird is meaningful. Alsoi, I mentioined changing dialoigiuie, balduirs gate doies noiti react throiiuigh dialoiiguiiuie, it juisit reacts by making everyoinie try toi kill yoiui (even evil characters)!

[Guest Fishboot]

PS. My keyboiaird is buiisted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's pretty cool actually. It's the best posting gimmick since Gromnir-speak!

[roshan]

PS. My keyboiaird is buiisted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's pretty cool actually. It's the best posting gimmick since Gromnir-speak!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Toi be hoiniest I wish it was juisit a poisting gimmick, buit uinfoirituinately it isnt.

[Guest Fishboot]

PS. My keyboiaird is buiisted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's pretty cool actually. It's the best posting gimmick since Gromnir-speak!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Toi be hoiniest I wish it was juisit a poisting gimmick, buit uinfoirituinately it isnt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wasn't implying that it was an artificial gimmick. It's even better because it's organic.

[Craigboy2]

I just want to rant about the general crappiness of all the rpgs out there. Why the hell cant rpgs offer multiple solutions to quests, changing dialogue and have the choices you make impact the game and its storyline? What the hell is so difficult about implementing this? So far the only rpgs Ive played that have these features are Torment and the Fallouts.

 

Recently I replayed Icewind Dale 2. It wasnt bad at all. I had a good time killing the monsters and building up my characters. In fact I got really into the game and had a great time. However, recently, I downloaded Tutu, a program that makes Baldurs Gate 1 use the BG2 engine and thus adds all the new featuires found in the game. I alsoi downloaded several mods for baldurs gate 1. At first as I wandered towards Beregost I got into the game, primarily due to noistalgia. But as I did quests I quckly got bored and decided to stop playing the game. It was simply horrible and unbearable. The character I made had no impact oin the game whatsoever. Everyone treated me the same way as if I had made any other character. I couldnt be evil because then the guards would be all over me. All the quests could only be solved using one way, and my choces abouit whether to do the quiests or not were completely meaningless to the game and its story.

 

UInlike Fallout and Torment, which I have replayed innumerable times, Baldurs Gate did not provide any sort of meaningful roleplaying opportunities. Aside from the statistics and the experience, it was basically an adventure game.

 

I just miss the old days of playing Fallout and PST, and Im longing for a new game that can provide a similar experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

KOTOR, avoid Jade Empire and you might want to also avoid Fable.

[Lancer]

In Deux Ex, you have to kill Agent Navarre and that guy in the missle silo to win the game. Everyone else you can run past if you try hard enough or cheat. You can save Lebedev by killing Navarre before you get to the dialogue where he talks about,"I know something important."(This thread has already dropped some spoilers, hence no spoiler tag.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You do NOT have to kill Navarre.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I love that part... you have the chance to join the terrorists and ditch your brother. I never tried it though.

[Lancer]

@ roshan:

 

Unfortunately, there really isn't another game out there remotely like Torment, however...

 

Games "kinda" like the Fallouts:

Arcanum, KOTOR, and Vampire.

 

As for oldies:

Have you ever tried Ultima VII? That is one kickass game. Old Genesis ROMS like Shadowrun and Buck Rogers were also quite good.

 

Aside from that maybe try out some indie devs like Spiderweb Software. I haven't played any of the Geneforge games myself but I have heard that they are quite good. In fact, they are supposed to be better than many of the $10-15M RPGs made by the big guys.

[metadigital]

In Deux Ex, you have to kill Agent Navarre and that guy in the missle silo to win the game. Everyone else you can run past if you try hard enough or cheat. You can save Lebedev by killing Navarre before you get to the dialogue where he talks about,"I know something important."(This thread has already dropped some spoilers, hence no spoiler tag.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You do NOT have to kill Navarre.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love that part... you have the chance to join the terrorists and ditch your brother. I never tried it though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I haven't either, so I have to.

 

Something about her impudent little face and her derisive tone make me want to smash her ugly little face into the floor. ...

[Lancer]

In Deux Ex, you have to kill Agent Navarre and that guy in the missle silo to win the game. Everyone else you can run past if you try hard enough or cheat. You can save Lebedev by killing Navarre before you get to the dialogue where he talks about,"I know something important."(This thread has already dropped some spoilers, hence no spoiler tag.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You do NOT have to kill Navarre.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love that part... you have the chance to join the terrorists and ditch your brother. I never tried it though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I haven't either, so I have to.

 

Something about her impudent little face and her derisive tone make me want to smash her ugly little face into the floor. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hehe...Exactly.. She was *really* asking for it.. She is such a b--..

 

Anyhow, this makes me want to replay Deus Ex just to see what happens if you join Navarre and kill Lebedev..

[metadigital]

I think it doesn't matter in the story, from what I've heard ... but, as Freddy used to say in Scooby Doo: there's only one way to find out!

[Azarkon]

A real RPG... You mean Life? :D

 

If only developers were gods...

[roshan]

PS. My keyboiaird is buiisted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's pretty cool actually. It's the best posting gimmick since Gromnir-speak!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Toi be hoiniest I wish it was juisit a poisting gimmick, buit uinfoirituinately it isnt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wasn't implying that it was an artificial gimmick. It's even better because it's organic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:cool:

[EnderAndrew]

White Wolf is currently making:

 

Dating: The Masquerade

Religion: The Apocalypse

Bank Account: The Oblivion

Corporate Ladder: The Ascension

Sleep: The Dreaming

[alanschu]

In Deux Ex, you have to kill Agent Navarre and that guy in the missle silo to win the game. Everyone else you can run past if you try hard enough or cheat. You can save Lebedev by killing Navarre before you get to the dialogue where he talks about,"I know something important."(This thread has already dropped some spoilers, hence no spoiler tag.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You do NOT have to kill Navarre.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I love that part... you have the chance to join the terrorists and ditch your brother. I never tried it though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Errr, how is joining the terrorists "ditching your brother?"

 

Anyhow, this makes me want to replay Deus Ex just to see what happens if you join Navarre and kill Lebedev..

 

What do you expect will happen (I know, as I've done it both ways....I'm surprised neither of you two have).

[Walsingham]

But at least you can defeat the guards

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yes. One wonders why they kept trying, to be honest. Every copper I know would let the army handle someone who was capable of battering Dragons to death. Indeed, in the exapnsion there is a guard who attempts to hassle you, and you can point this out to him, whereupon he quietly walks away.

[metadigital]

...

What do you expect will happen (I know, as I've done it both ways....I'm surprised neither of you two have).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've only played Deus Ex through (always from start to finish) a couple of times.

 

Every time I get to that part at the Hangar, I just want to stuff her face into the floor, so I end up doing that. :D

 

I have read what happens, and I know that it doesn't affect the story at all.

You get ticked off for killing Lebedev instead of Navarre, is all, I believe.

 

 

If I'm not right, DON'T tell me, because that will be more fun when I do.

[alanschu]

I was originally gonna post what happens, but I figured I'd leave it to your own devices.

 

I played through killing Navarre, and it was interesting. Manderley seemed less than thrilled, and I was really hoping Gunther would break down crying or something