Do you believe Kreia is Arren Kae?

[Sikon]

Yes, another poll, I wonder how long this one will survive...

[DAWUSS]

I don't think she is, but if she is, what a big revelation that would make in III (but that's for that thread, not this one)

[Luke Skywhacker]

Arren Kae was a master but wasn't on the council, contrary to Kreia, for all I know...

[Masta Revan]

No I don't think so It just wouldn't make any sense. But It would be funny though finding out that thats the handmadins mother

[Master_Vrook]

I always wondered if Arran Kae was the same Jedi Atton killed.

[GhostofAnakin]

No. Not enough conclusive evidence to suggest it. Just some minor coincidences.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Just some minor coincidences.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Enough coincidences to make me think the designers had them the same at some point, but it was probably jettisoned quite early on.

[GhostofAnakin]

Just some minor coincidences.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Enough coincidences to make me think the designers had them the same at some point, but it was probably jettisoned quite early on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think it more likely the designers were going to have Kreia know Handmaiden's mom, rather than actually be her mom.

[Jediphile]

I think it more likely the designers were going to have Kreia know Handmaiden's mom, rather than actually be her mom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kreia did know her - she said so to the Exile herself. Kreia has a, ahem, talent for "misinformation", though, and I could easily believe that she would mere say that she knew Kae if she is indeed Kae herself. Note also how she refers to the third Sith Lord, who cannot be revealed too soon. That third Sith lord is clearly Kreia herself, so she obviously talks about herself in the third person. She could very easily do the same on the subject of Arren Kae, methinks.

 

However, there are a few clues to suggest that she is indeed Arren Kae.

 

1. None of the masters ever mention Kreia by name. Indeed, Atris tells us that "Kreia" is not her real name.

 

2. When confronting the masters, Kavar mentions (without saying her name) that he thought she had died in the Mandalorian Wars. Arren Kae supposedly died on Malachor V at the end of the Mandalorian Wars.

 

3. When Disciple talks about Revan, he mentions that Revan was the padawan of Arren Kae. To me this suggests that Arren Kae was Revan's first master. He also mentions, as does Kreia herself, that Revan returned to his first and final master to learn how to leave the jedi order. If Kae was his first master, then Kreia must be Kae.

 

There are other clues, like Atton mentioning that Kreia must have been beautiful once, or that Kreia seems to hide her presence from Atris when the Exile first meets Atris on Telos, or even that Kreia admits knowing the Handmaiden's mother and yet never uses that knowledge to manipulate the Handmaiden with, but I find the above three to be the major clues.

[DeathScepter]

I do think Kreia knows Arren Kae like she knows Revan.

 

In other words, She Loves them like her own childern.

 

I do have this gut feeling that Kreia spoiled both of them like her own childern if not her own grandchildern.

 

 

Arren Kae was close to Revan more like a Sister and I do think that Arren Kae help Revan meet Kreia.

[Dark Moth]

I don't feel like repeating myself, so I'll just use my old quote.

 

I think now we're just digging too deep into the game's plotholes.  If Kreia had indeed been handmaiden's mother, we would have seen better evidence for it either in the game or the cut content.  There are too many inconsistancies for Kreia to be Handmaiden's mother, anyway.  One of them being that Kreia was a historian and a Jedi Master/council member (it says so on the canon) and Kae was a Jedi Knight.  If I find a link to it, I'll post it. 

 

Besides, I doubt even Obsidian would be so shallow as to use the "I am your parent!  Hahahaha!" theme again for Star Wars.  If they did want to, they obviously changed it in the stages of development.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

EDIT: Besides, if you're a female and don't get handmaiden, then you basically hear almost nothing about Kreia and the issue of whether she was Hanmaiden's mother or not would not be important. Besides, I doubt any man would be desperate enough to produce offspring with her.

[QeL_Droma]

I think it more likely the designers were going to have Kreia know Handmaiden's mom, rather than actually be her mom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kreia did know her - she said so to the Exile herself. Kreia has a, ahem, talent for "misinformation", though, and I could easily believe that she would mere say that she knew Kae if she is indeed Kae herself. Note also how she refers to the third Sith Lord, who cannot be revealed too soon. That third Sith lord is clearly Kreia herself, so she obviously talks about herself in the third person. She could very easily do the same on the subject of Arren Kae, methinks.

 

However, there are a few clues to suggest that she is indeed Arren Kae.

 

1. None of the masters ever mention Kreia by name. Indeed, Atris tells us that "Kreia" is not her real name.

 

2. When confronting the masters, Kavar mentions (without saying her name) that he thought she had died in the Mandalorian Wars. Arren Kae supposedly died on Malachor V at the end of the Mandalorian Wars.

 

3. When Disciple talks about Revan, he mentions that Revan was the padawan of Arren Kae. To me this suggests that Arren Kae was Revan's first master. He also mentions, as does Kreia herself, that Revan returned to his first and final master to learn how to leave the jedi order. If Kae was his first master, then Kreia must be Kae.

 

There are other clues, like Atton mentioning that Kreia must have been beautiful once, or that Kreia seems to hide her presence from Atris when the Exile first meets Atris on Telos, or even that Kreia admits knowing the Handmaiden's mother and yet never uses that knowledge to manipulate the Handmaiden with, but I find the above three to be the major clues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's a nice persuasive text, but not for me... If Brianna was Kreia's daughter, Brianna at least sense her when she feels force. I think Atris knows much about Arren Kae. And I must say this too Handmaiden honours her mother's face not Kreia's!!!

[GhostofAnakin]

I also think Kreia would seem more interested in her daughter's fate. Kreia seemed to regard Handmaiden on the same level as any of the other party members.

[Jediphile]

That's a nice persuasive text, but not for me... If Brianna was Kreia's daughter, Brianna at least sense her when she feels force.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, Luke didn't sense that Vader was his father or that Leia was his sister (until the fact that he had one was revealed to him), and nor did Leia, so I don't find that to be a very compelling argument. Especially not when Handmaiden is never confronted with the possibility of Kreia being Kae...

 

I think Atris knows much about Arren Kae. And I must say this too Handmaiden honours her mother's face  not Kreia's!!!

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The Handmaiden is beautiful, but note how Atton mentions that Kreia must also have been beautiful once. That could be a clue. Especially when we know how the DS corrupts the look of people in K2.

[Jediphile]

I also think Kreia would seem more interested in her daughter's fate.  Kreia seemed to regard Handmaiden on the same level as any of the other party members.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What can I say - the dark side makes people do horrible things even to their own relatives. Ulic killed his brother. Anakin killed his wife and maimed and nearly killed his own son...

 

Besides, we could also argue that Kreia's apparent lack of interest and disregard for the Handmaiden is really just a facade, and that she doesn't want her to come along because she doesn't want her daughter to be corrupted as she was. Or we could argue that she won't allow anyone to see her concern for Handmaiden, since that would be a weakness, and she cannot allow that as a Sith lord.

[Dark Moth]

For crying out loud, Kreia dies in the end! If that were so, don't you think we would have at least know whether or not Kreia was Kae or not?!!! If they had ever intended to make Kreia Handmaiden's mom, they obviously ditched it in the early stages of development. If that's the case, than Kreia still isn't Handmaiden's mom, since the idea was abandoned.

 

Also, see my other post on this thread.

Edited August 6, 2005 by Mothman

[DarthReliguim]

I think it more likely the designers were going to have Kreia know Handmaiden's mom, rather than actually be her mom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

3. When Disciple talks about Revan, he mentions that Revan was the padawan of Arren Kae. To me this suggests that Arren Kae was Revan's first master. He also mentions, as does Kreia herself, that Revan returned to his first and final master to learn how to leave the jedi order. If Kae was his first master, then Kreia must be Kae.

I don't remember Mical saying anything about that.

There are other clues, like Atton mentioning that Kreia must have been beautiful once, or that Kreia seems to hide her presence from Atris when the Exile first meets Atris on Telos, or even that Kreia admits knowing the Handmaiden's mother and yet never uses that knowledge to manipulate the Handmaiden with, but I find the above three to be the major clues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You guys take stuff too seriously.And I thought someone said Arren was in the Mandalorian War.I thought Kreia said she didn't go to war....must just be me I guess.

[Jediphile]

For crying out loud, Kreia dies in the end!  If that were so, don't you think we would have at least know whether or not Kreia was Kae or not?!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, the fact is that we're indeed not told either way, so I don't see what your point is with that statement. You seem to think that Kreia is not Kae, fine, but you defeat that point yourself with this comment, since the game doesn't tell us that either.

 

But you're right that we cannot determine that Kreia is Kae. We cannot determine that she wasn't either, though. And the fact that the game ends without revealing this to us doesn't prove anything either way.

[Jediphile]

I think it more likely the designers were going to have Kreia know Handmaiden's mom, rather than actually be her mom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

3. When Disciple talks about Revan, he mentions that Revan was the padawan of Arren Kae. To me this suggests that Arren Kae was Revan's first master. He also mentions, as does Kreia herself, that Revan returned to his first and final master to learn how to leave the jedi order. If Kae was his first master, then Kreia must be Kae.

I don't remember Mical saying anything about that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Straight from dialog.tlk, Disciple says: "As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled."

 

 

There are other clues, like Atton mentioning that Kreia must have been beautiful once, or that Kreia seems to hide her presence from Atris when the Exile first meets Atris on Telos, or even that Kreia admits knowing the Handmaiden's mother and yet never uses that knowledge to manipulate the Handmaiden with, but I find the above three to be the major clues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You guys take stuff too seriously.And I thought someone said Arren was in the Mandalorian War.I thought Kreia said she didn't go to war....must just be me I guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When Kreia interrupts the meeting between the jedi masters and the LS exile:

 

Kavar: "I thought you had died in the Mandalorian Wars..."

 

Kreia: "Die? No - became stronger, yes."

[GhostofAnakin]

For crying out loud, Kreia dies in the end!  If that were so, don't you think we would have at least know whether or not Kreia was Kae or not?!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Explain why Empire Strikes Back doesn't come out and say Leia is Luke's sister then. They dropped hints leading up to that, but using your theory then they would have said so at the end of ESB otherwise that's "proof".

 

Sure no one dies like Kreia did, but the point is a story string was still left hanging despite clues being dropped about it, and despite the fact it was never resolved at the end of the movie.

 

If KOTOR2 is just the middle game in the series (like many suspect), then everything doesn't need to be wrapped up at the end, despite the death of the character. Handmaiden could just find out later about it after Kreia's death.

 

I don't personally think Kreia is, but your "proof" is weak at best.

[Lord Satasn]

Kreia: "Arran Kae, now that is a name I haven't heard in a long time, a lonnnng time."

 

Handmaiden: "So you know her?!"

 

Kreia: "Know her, I am her!"

[DeathScepter]

is that From the Cut Content or from your imagination young one?

[Jediphile]

Explain why Empire Strikes Back doesn't come out and say Leia is Luke's sister then. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, wasn't that supposed to refer to Luke's sister who was *not* Leia? I seem to recall the original intent being that Luke had a sister somewhere, but that it wasn't Leia, and that finding her would be a part of the planned third trilogy (episodes VII, VIII, and IX), only Lucas lost interest in Star Wars while doing ROTJ and decided to turn Leia into Luke's sister instead, just so that he could close the saga right there without leaving the "No, there is another" comment hanging. Or do I remember it wrong?

 

They dropped hints leading up to that, but using your theory then they would have said so at the end of ESB otherwise that's "proof". 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True. In fact, this is rather common, particularly in an ongoing series or saga. It's called foreshadowing. And given that KotOR2 was written with a sequel fully intended all along, it makes sense to leave some plot unresolved. The Revan vs. true Sith revelation is a major plot, which is only revealed and never explored. Kreia/Kae is one touched upon, but left open for further development. The Exile/Nihilus connection is another.

 

If KOTOR2 is just the middle game in the series (like many suspect), then everything doesn't need to be wrapped up at the end, despite the death of the character.  Handmaiden could just find out later about it after Kreia's death.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And K3 was intended during the production of K2. So even if K3 is never made, I think your point would be just as valid.

[DAWUSS]

Kreia: "Arran Kae, now that is a name I haven't heard in a long time, a lonnnng time."

 

Handmaiden: "So you know her?!"

 

Kreia: "Know her, I am her!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Added on:

 

 

Handmaiden: So you're saying...

 

Kreia: I am your mother

 

Handmaiden: That's impossible!

 

Kreia cuts off Handmaiden's hand with a swift slash of the lightsaber

 

Kreia: Come, join the Dark Side. We'll kill the Exile and the Sith will rule the galaxy

 

Handmaiden: Nooooooooo!!!!

 

Handmaiden kills Kreia with a lightsaber strike. What she doesn't realize is the Exile then dies too because they're bio-linked

[Krookie]

Kreia: "Arran Kae, now that is a name I haven't heard in a long time, a lonnnng time."

 

Handmaiden: "So you know her?!"

 

Kreia: "Know her, I am her!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Added on:

 

 

Handmaiden: So you're saying...

 

Kreia: I am your mother

 

Handmaiden: That's impossible!

 

Kreia cuts off Handmaiden's hand with a swift slash of the lightsaber

 

Kreia: Come, join the Dark Side. We'll kill the Exile and the Sith will rule the galaxy

 

Handmaiden: Nooooooooo!!!!

 

Handmaiden kills Kreia with a lightsaber strike. What she doesn't realize is the Exile then dies too because they're bio-linked

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

(w00t)