Oblivion preview

[metadigital]

Wading through the sycophantically effusive "preview" of Oblivion in this month's PC Gamer, I did read some interesting stuff, which I shall relate herewith.

 

...

and what makes it most exciting is that it also addresses its shortcomings with almost surgical precision. The lifeless text-based dialogue system has been replaced by an unbelievable 50 hours of speech, including erstwhile Enterprise captain Patrick Stewart as the human emperor. They've wisely given up on the messy stream-of-consciousness journal system, and the new quest log is similar to that of World of Warcraft.

Persuasion - which previously degenerated into bribing people until they told you what you wanted - has come a particularly long way. When executive producer Todd Howard decided to put the moves on a bookseller he liked the look of, the new interface popped up. It's a disc with the four compass points labelled with methods of persuasion: joke, admire intimidate, and taunt. You position your cursor for the right balance of methods you think will work, all the while watching their face intently. If you veer toward the obsequious end of flattery, you'll elicit a scowl of distaste as your sycophancy becomes transparent. Once you find a sweetspot between adulation and cool, it'll be obvious from their expression that they're amenable to your tone; so you let go of the mouse button and they react to your line for real.

Todd went for a mostly jokey angle, and when he released the mouse button the bookseller chuckled appreciatively: "An orc in a dress? That's a good one."

A few more classic jibes at greenskin cross-dressing later, and he got her talking about the attacks on the town. Now much more open with him, the bookseller admitted the violence was starting to scare her. In fact, she could use someone like him around for protection. Would he care to stay the night? He would.

This is where the biggest change has taken place: in the private lives of the NPCs. For starters, they now have them. But what we saw was more than the daily routine rhetoric we've heard about before; it was something almost scarily involved.

Hanging out in her bedroom, our new 'friend' got on with practising her archery. She had to down an aim-improving concoction before her practice was entirely safe to perform with company, and with her small ldog scampering about. After three bullseyes, she was satisfied and settled down to read. Her dog was still making a nuisance of himself, though, so she found a steak for him and tossed it on the floor.

Here's the root of that term 'Radiant AI' you might have heard bandied about: the dog scans within a radius around him, locates the steak, realises it's food and that he's hungry, and gobbles it. Stats boosted, he yapped with renewed vigour, and eventually his mistress

[Arkan]

We can only hope it's good.

[GhostofAnakin]

I don't care what Volourn and Hades say, I'm actually looking forward to this game.

[alanschu]

Me too.

 

I'm curious if it's going to be more of a throwback to the Ultima 7 days where NPCs had their own schedules and whatnot.

[mkreku]

It's good to hear that the quest journal is similar to the one found in World of Warcraft, because that one is excellent.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

The lifeless text-based dialogue system has been replaced by an unbelievable 50 hours of speech, including erstwhile Enterprise captain Patrick Stewart as the human emperor.

 

You don't just replace a text-based hyperlink system with speech. Something has to propel the speech to happen, unless they are suggesting everyone just talks without the player activating dialogue. Last I heard from a Bethesda developer, it was hinted that an approach to dialogue trees was being pursued.

 

But the principle is that NPCs have things to do, and they'll use the tools at their disposal to do them. The result of the apparent simple equation could lead to some of the most excitingly emergent gaming experience we've ever played, or it could break the game when two important characters get in each other's way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

'Excitingly emergent gaming experience'? That's not what emergent gaming is, and if they're excited about a feature that's been used time and again... Whoa.

 

Another article with a whole lot of gushing from gaming 'journalists'.

[EnderAndrew]

Bethesda doesn't openly saw their previous games have flaws.

 

But here they seem to address them as if they knew they were flaws.

 

This gives me hope both for Oblivion and Fallout. So much for people thinking Fallout would be exactly like Morrowind. Their next TES game isn't even going to be like Morrowind.

[213374U]

Yeah, yeah. But will there be some ph4t 1007 to grab or not?!

[SteveThaiBinh]

You know, I almost bought a copy of PC Gamer today, and now I'm glad I didn't. Thanks for the highlights, meta.

 

Persuasion looks interesting. I hope they've got really good face amd emotion graphics, otherwise it will get very old very quickly, but I'm looking forward to giving it a try. And surely anything has to be an improvement over the dialogue in Morrowind.

 

It looks like a real root-and-branch overhaul from Morrowind, so even Morrowind-haters might want to give it a try, but Bethesda would be wise to release a demo given the hostility that game seems to arouse. I'm definitely looking forward to this.

[metadigital]

You know, I almost bought a copy of PC Gamer today, and now I'm glad I didn't.  Thanks for the highlights, meta.

 

Persuasion looks interesting.  I hope they've got really good face amd emotion graphics, otherwise it will get very old very quickly, but I'm looking forward to giving it a try.  And surely anything has to be an improvement over the dialogue in Morrowind.

 

It looks like a real root-and-branch overhaul from Morrowind, so even Morrowind-haters might want to give it a try, but Bethesda would be wise to release a demo given the hostility that game seems to arouse.  I'm definitely looking forward to this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm still reading it, so if anything else pops up, I'll post that too ... © :ph34r:

 

I also posted the bit for the persuassion "minigame" and the "emergent AI" example. As RP said, this sort of thing has been available since AI was invented, so I'm not so sure why they are hyping it so. (Then again, this was the magazinbe that gave K2 something like 89%, and then printed a half-retraction by way of their "Spy" articles reporting on disquiet in these fora. )

 

The minigame is sort of what we were talking about in a previous thread (the Story thread?).

 

As long as it doesn't end up like the lockpick minigame in Thief ...

[Drakron]

Every time I read something about this game I end up with more reasons to not even pick up the game box.

[GhostofAnakin]

Every time I read something about this game I end up with more reasons to not even pick up the game box.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I sometimes think you're Hades you want to post under a different name. You're both always about the naysaying and forcasting doom.

[alanschu]

And what reasons would those be?

 

 

EDIT: GoA, don't forget Groin of Despair!

[metadigital]

I did like the AI fireballing the dog. (Only because it was an imaginary dog. If it were a real arcane magic user casting a fireball on a real dog I would be forced to kill them painfully. Probably using fire. And water. And oil. And paper. And some little green peppers.)

[GhostofAnakin]

And what reasons would those be?

 

 

EDIT:  GoA, don't forget Groin of Despair!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Groin of Despair is just a comic relief. His comments are more in jest.

 

Hades and Drakron seem to truly believe what they type, and I've never seen such cynical people in my life, especially about EVERY game that comes out.

[alanschu]

Yet they probably still get these games

[metadigital]

And what reasons would those be?

 

EDIT:  GoA, don't forget Groin of Despair!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Groin of Despair is just a comic relief. His comments are more in jest.

 

Hades and Drakron seem to truly believe what they type, and I've never seen such cynical people in my life, especially about EVERY game that comes out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey! I'm cynical, too! :D

 

 

PS At least your sig is relevant again, GoA!

[Reveilled]

The lifeless text-based dialogue system has been replaced by an unbelievable 50 hours of speech, including erstwhile Enterprise captain Patrick Stewart as the human emperor.

 

You don't just replace a text-based hyperlink system with speech. Something has to propel the speech to happen, unless they are suggesting everyone just talks without the player activating dialogue. Last I heard from a Bethesda developer, it was hinted that an approach to dialogue trees was being pursued.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that's what they mean. The distinction I think they're making is whether the responses are "lifeless [and] text-based", or speech-based. Obviously, the Player has to make text-based comments, but one might argue that that goes without saying. Talking about the swtich from the keyword system to a dialogue tree perhaps isn't quite as interesting as mentioning that the new system will have over 50 hours of speech.

 

 

I must confess that this sounds intriguing. Of course, so did Morrowind, and I hated that. Nevertheless, I'll probably be a damn fool and buy it, play it for a few hours, hate it, leave it for a few months and come to the conclusion that I didn't give it a fair chance, play it for a few hours, hate it, etc. etc.

Just like Morrowind.

[Drakron]

My reasons?

 

First, ranged combat is restricted to bows only.

Second, you can cast spells at any time.

Third, mounted combat does not exist.

 

 

How about that?

 

Oblivion is nothing but a dumb down RPG to appeal to the masses, today I read about the influence system being a moronic mini game and I just "Oh **** it".

[alanschu]

What game does have mounted combat?

 

And how would you rather spells be handled?

[Drakron]

Sacred.

 

And Oblivion have mounts, for some reason cannot actualy swing a sword when ridding.

 

And quite frankly I am not going to say how I would handle spells, I was prefectly fine with the old system but they had to dumb it down since some players simply cannot be bothered to press a DAMN KEY.

[metadigital]

The lifeless text-based dialogue system has been replaced by an unbelievable 50 hours of speech, including erstwhile Enterprise captain Patrick Stewart as the human emperor.

 

You don't just replace a text-based hyperlink system with speech. Something has to propel the speech to happen, unless they are suggesting everyone just talks without the player activating dialogue. Last I heard from a Bethesda developer, it was hinted that an approach to dialogue trees was being pursued.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that's what they mean. The distinction I think they're making is whether the responses are "lifeless [and] text-based", or speech-based. Obviously, the Player has to make text-based comments, but one might argue that that goes without saying. Talking about the swtich from the keyword system to a dialogue tree perhaps isn't quite as interesting as mentioning that the new system will have over 50 hours of speech.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't like speech for speech's sake. It just doesn't make me more interested, doesn't make me feel more immersed, doesn't add significant depth to the game, in short: it doesn't do it for me. I can read faster than any actor's speech, create the necessary intonations mentally, and imagine better than any developers programme.

 

Speech for text is not the problem. That is froth and bubble.

 

It's what the characters are saying that's important, not their accents. Focusing on the addition of speech makes be think the characters have nothing worthwhile to say ...

[alanschu]

Sacred.

 

And Oblivion have mounts, for some reason cannot actualy swing a sword when ridding.

 

Ah yes...sacred. What a gem that was.

 

 

And quite frankly I am not going to say how I would handle spells, I was prefectly fine with the old system but they had to dumb it down since some players simply cannot be bothered to press a DAMN KEY.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The old system being the previous Elder Scrolls game?

 

Pressing a damn key? Do spells just cast themselves without player input?

[Drakron]

It works like this before.

 

In order to cast spells you had to go into "read spells" mode that removed any shield and weapon you were using.

 

So that sword of doom +10 that made your defence go up the roof was gone as you were casting spells, it allowed spells to be very dangreous but also very risky.

 

Oh and we have now a penalty to casting when wearing armor, I hope you enjoy being a spellsword.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Pressing a damn key?  Do spells just cast themselves without player input?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think spells in Oblivion are now cast even when players have weapons equipped, as opposed to needing to switch between an equipped weapon and free hands.