Fallout 3

[GhostofAnakin]

its not like they grab random people from the street to work for Black Isle.

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And Bethesda does?

[Judge Hades]

Troika grabbed random people off the street and told them to program their games.

[GhostofAnakin]

Troika grabbed random people off the street and told them to program their games.

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That's pretty impressive what they were able to develop then if that's the case.

[Judge Hades]

Not really. They stalked Microsoft's employee parking lots.

[Guest Fishboot]

Hey, I want more European RPGs to follow through the breach Gothic smashed down as much as the next guy. Hopefully these guys will make a winner...

 

 

As far as Bethesda's Fallout 3... I have artistic appreciation for Beth, and so I'm interested in their Fallout 3 in some ways just because I want to see how they meet the artistic challenge. If I had to pick who would make a real spiritual successor to Fallout 1 I'd pick the Troika guys, but Fallout 2 and FO:T (I think most would agree) screwed up the continuity and tone so that the franchise has become wonky enough to be profaned by being passed around to different styles and methods of gameplay and development without me protesting.

[GhostofAnakin]

Hey, I want more European RPGs to follow through the breach Gothic smashed down as much as the next guy. Hopefully these guys will make a winner...

 

 

As far as Bethesda's Fallout 3... I have artistic appreciation for Beth, and so I'm interested in their Fallout 3 in some ways just because I want to see how they meet the artistic challenge. If I had to pick who would make a real spiritual successor to Fallout 1 I'd pick the Troika guys, but Fallout 2 and FO:T (I think most would agree) screwed up the continuity and tone so that the franchise has become wonky enough to be profaned by being passed around to different styles and methods of gameplay and development without me protesting.

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You didn't like FO2?

[Guest Fishboot]

You didn't like FO2?

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I liked it a lot, actually, but it was kind of "all over the place" tonally (The Brain is juxtaposed exactly next to Vault City? What?) and introduced a lot of continuity that made no sense (New Reno, while it was an island of fantastic quest design, made no sense - it produced nothing of survival value yet supported a large population of debilitated Jet addicts?). And, geeze, don't forget the tribal motif that also made no sense - from science boy with a suit of power armor to dirt worshipper in one generation? Anyway, these things made me go, "Bwah?" and ignore them while I played a game that had absolutely fantastic set pieces and quest design and plenty of both.

 

Obviously these are ancient gripes, but they amount to a continuity albatross around the license's neck.

[alanschu]

I doubt Bethesda have the ability to make a good Fallout.  It iwll probably end up being Morrowind (or Oblivion) with guns.  It just won't be Fallout.  I mean, what experience do they have in making a science fiction CRPG let alone a 50's themed Post Apocalyptic CRPG.

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What experience did Bioware have with AD&D RPGs (or RPGs in general) before Baldur's Gate?

 

What experience did idSoftware have making FPS games before Wolf3D?

 

What experience did BIS have with a D&D RPG before Torment?

 

 

I could go on.

[EnderAndrew]

Meanwhile Bethesda has made some good RPGs over the years. BiS can't say that every single RPG they released won RPG of the year. Bethesda can. People keep forgetting that.

 

Bethesda's recent comments on Oblivion show they learned some of the mistakes from Morrowind, and are addressing them. FO3 won't be Morrowind with guns.

[alanschu]

Considering Bethesda themselves said they weren't too thrilled with everything that came after FO2, and how they were huge fans of FO and FO2.

[Antagonist]

The biggest problem with Bethesda is their design philosophy to make games accessible to a broader audience. This is a wise decision from a business point a view but a catastophe for a Fallout game because both tiltes are tailored for a hardcore RPG community. If you look at the Elder Scrolls series each title moves more and more into the action game genre and has less features than its predecessor.

[EnderAndrew]

Does that mean Fallout 3 won't be fun?

 

Does that mean Fallout 3 won't have a good story?

 

We knew from day 1 we weren't getting a turn-based, isometric game.

[Antagonist]

Depends on what you are looking for in a Fallout game. If you are just interested in the story detached from roleplaying and game mechanics you might actually like the game but when I buy a Fallout game I expect a title that fits into the series. That's why I passed up Tactics and BoS. A isometric turn-based Half-Life 3 might also be fun but it wouldn't fit into the established series.

 

And by all means, Bethesda did some things right with Daggerfall but their contributions to the RPG world where always lacking since then. Morrowind had a horrid story and half-baked game mechanics and Oblivion looks also very uninspired to me.

[alanschu]

But apparently it just isn't a Fallout game otherwise

[EnderAndrew]

And by all means, Bethesda did some things right with Daggerfall but their contributions to the RPG world where always lacking since then. Morrowind had a horrid story and half-baked game mechanics and Oblivion looks also very uninspired to me.

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Uninspired?

 

I get people who say Morrowind isn't fun. But TES games are labors of love with high production values. Bethesda does make a pretty serious effort to put out the best damned game they can. People shouldn't deny them that.

 

I started Fanout with the purpose of creating a game Bethesda wouldn't. I know fans want a sequel to FO1 and 2. We're not getting that, and we know it. But FO3 might be a good game regardless.

[Guest Fishboot]

If you look at the Elder Scrolls series each title moves more and more into the action game genre and has less features than its predecessor.

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There's nothing about Daggerfall or Arena that's less twitchy than Morrowind - they were always action/RPG hybrids. Well, Arena is less twitchy in that the control scheme is so clunky that you have to play more slowly, I suppose. Now, as far as Oblivion I tend to agree that it's going to have a deeper action component than Morrowind, and it will be less abstracted - a hit is a hit, a block is a block. I just don't see that as pandering. The whole idea of Bethesda pandering with their 200 hour death march games, no love interest, up-until-Oblivion always behind the time graphics, their crazily ambiguous point of view storylines, and the heavy reading using in-game books just seems absurd to me.

 

The "less features" comment is so nebulous that it has no meaning, please restate.

 

Beth is obviously going to translate Fallout into a gameplay idiom they're comfortable with, but they have that right, and there's no reason to presume it will be awful.

[EnderAndrew]

Beth is obviously going to translate Fallout into a gameplay idiom they're comfortable with, but they have that right, and there's no reason to presume it will be awful.

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Very well put.

[213374U]

For as long as they can keep a good array of RP'ing options, a plot (and storytelling) good enough to keep the player going, a fair amount of the FO atmosphere, and a somewhat balanced combat system, it will be a good RPG. I'll judge it when the game is out.

 

It's funny how people say that "if it ain't isometric TB, it ain't Fallout". Sorry folks, Fallout is the universe. If make a game in that setting, it will be as much Fallout as the originals. It's time to move on.

[alanschu]

But if it's not Fallout 2, Part 2, it can't possibly be a fallout game can it???

[Sir Cedric]

I just hope Bethesda at least tries to maintain the spirit of the setting, and don't put a thousand cliff racers in. Personally, after reading some of the design documents that are posted on No Mutants Allowed for the BIS Van Buren project (their version of Fallout 3 prior to the suicide of Interplay), I am mad that it did not get released. It seems like they had a pretty decent story, some awesome characters and if they could have capitalized on the stuff I was reading in their design docs, the game would have been a pretty awesome follow up to FO and FO2.

 

That was also why a particular April Fool's joke hurt a little, because I really thought BIS was going to do FO3 justice, and then the joke was Bethesda had hired Obsidian to finish it. Totally cruel.

 

I have played both Daggerfall and Morrowind for more than a few hours, but I never finished or replayed the games because they can't seem to make good, thought provoking passionate characters. Quite frankly without memorable characters I don't think FO3 will work and I hope they are putting significant resources towards those story related, emotion provoking zots and not all of them towards "l33t" loot, swanky graphics, and actiony combat. I don't exactly have my hopes up though, seeing their past work. YMMV.

[EnderAndrew]

Bethesda developers played FO1 and FO2. They enjoyed them, and were fans of the setting.

[Kaftan Barlast]

There were only two companies who could have done FO3 justice, and that was Obsidian and Troika. Letting Bethesda do it is comparable with giving it to Blizzard.

 

 

 

A cow dont make ham. Bethesda is what they are, a company who still makes games after the same principle as when they started over 10 years ago. Why would they change now?

[EnderAndrew]

Bethesda makes games other than RPGs for one, which tells me they know how to make more than one sort of game.

 

Secondly, their work on Oblivion shows they are are capable of addressing flaws in previous titles.

 

The merits of a Bethseda made Fallout are many. We'll likely get good mod tools, community suggestions will be implemented, we'll get a well polished game, and there will be plenty of support after the game ships.

 

I'm not saying there aren't flaws, or that I wouldn't have prefered Van Buren. But I'm not writing off Bethesda's FO3.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Only the orignal team, Obsidian and former Troika employees, could ever do Fallout 3 justice.

[213374U]

community suggestions will be implemented

I fail to see how that is necessarily a good thing.