Star Wars or Matrix with GURPS rules

[Jediphile]

While my Mystara D&D campaign is winding down, I'm considered what to throw myself at next.

 

I have several idea, of course, including running some classic Call of Cthulhu (5th edition - never d20!) modules, but I'm also thinking about a Star Wars campaign set at an undescribed time or a Matrix game set before the first film.

 

However, I know of no Matrix rules and I hate the d20 Star Wars stuff, so I'd want to run those with GURPS rules.

 

To that end I wonder if anyone here has tried that or know of others who have done so, and what experiences they had with it. And, of course, I'd appreciate any links I could get for sites dealing with either subject.

[EnderAndrew]

West End Games D6 Rules.

[Jediphile]

West End Games D6 Rules.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I might consider that, except nobody knows those rules, I have only one of the rulebooks, and the rest is long since out of print as well as out of date. So it's not really an option.

[EnderAndrew]

I've seen the rulebooks go really cheap at gaming stores, and on EBay.

[Lancer]

When you say "Matrix" rules are you talking about an RPG based on that movie or just a generic cyberpunk setting with cyberspace elements? There have been quite a few of those (Cyberpunk, Cyberspace, Shadowrun..etc) .

 

There's also an old GURPS Cyberpunk sourcebook which is hard as heck to find now...

[Darth_Schmarth]

I dunno what GURPS is. I usually end up playing prison rules.

[EnderAndrew]

GURPS = Generic Universal RolePlaying System.

 

Character creation is wide open and plenty of fun, but the rules are cumbersome, and you have to pour over twenty books.

 

Steve Jackson games publishes GURPS as their flagship. Fallout was originally going to be a GURPS game, and the first demo used GURPS rules. But Black Isle couldn't get the rights to GURPS and they invented SPECIAL instead, which makes me a happy camper.

[Darque]

GURPS: Alpha Centauri....

 

Best concept ever

[Jediphile]

When you say "Matrix" rules are you talking about an RPG based on that movie or just a generic cyberpunk setting with cyberspace elements? There have been quite a few of those (Cyberpunk, Cyberspace, Shadowrun..etc) .

 

There's also an old GURPS Cyberpunk sourcebook which is hard as heck to find now...

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Sorry, I meant the movies. Though "Matrix Revolutions" makes the trilogy hated, I still think there is lots and lots of RPG potential in there. I've been toying with the idea for a campaign, since I already have the plot ready. I would begin before the first movie and eventually move beyond the last movie, explaining all the nonsense and ties up the loose ends. That could be fun.

 

At least, it is my experience that when I have the idea for a campaign or adventure, then it usually turns out pretty well. I did a Star Trek TNG/DS9 plot I had thought up a few years ago as an adventure, and despite their initial skeptism, the players ended up loving how it all turned out, so I have a good deal of confidence in my plots...

[metadigital]

...

Sorry, I meant the movies. Though "Matrix Revolutions" makes the trilogy hated, I still think there is lots and lots of RPG potential in there.

...

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Actually, I thought Matrix Reloaded was pretty bad, too:

...

It never delivers on Neo

[Lancer]

Sorry, I meant the movies. Though "Matrix Revolutions" makes the trilogy hated, I still think there is lots and lots of RPG potential in there.

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I liked "Matrix Revolutions" a whole lot more than "Reloaded."

I always felt that "Reloaded" was the black sheep of the trilogy.

[metadigital]

Sorry, I meant the movies. Though "Matrix Revolutions" makes the trilogy hated, I still think there is lots and lots of RPG potential in there.

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I liked "Matrix Revolutions" a whole lot more than "Reloaded."

I always felt that "Reloaded" was the black sheep of the trilogy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hated the third one. I thought it was cheese on toast. But, the guy from Ain't It Cool (same site as above quote is taken from) wet his pants in excitement over it. (It sounds like he's never read an Orwell or Dickens novel, TBH.)

[Lancer]

I guess I am weird but I felt that "Revolutions" had a more cyberpunk Matrix feel to it that was a lot closer to the original movie.

 

"Reloaded" just didn't have the cyberpunk feel of the other two movies. The plot didn't seem as interesting and it felt more akin to watching something between a Star Trek episode and an alien invasion movie.

[Darque]

I'm weirder, I didn't like the matrix movies.

[Lancer]

I'm weirder, I didn't like the matrix movies.

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That is kinda weird.. especially if you liked Shadowrun and all that cyberpunk stuff.

 

But, yeah, I am weird too. I prefer 2ndEd over 3e *shrugs*

[Darque]

Shadowrun was cool.

 

the matrix was some psychobabbletrip

 

Now the first movie was an ok sci-fi/action movie though...

[Lancer]

Shadowrun was cool.

 

the matrix was some psychobabbletrip

 

Now the first movie was an ok sci-fi/action movie though...

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What was weird was that when I saw the original Matrix movie although I thought it was decent it wasn't one of my favorites. Shortly, thereafter, when I got into Shadowrun PnP I really began to get into the cyberpunk theme. After getting succesfully indoctrinated into the cyberpunk genre I had gone to see the Matrix movie again and my enjoyment of the film increased considerably this time around.

 

Then I ended up buying all three

[alanschu]

Soon you'll wonder why :D

[Jediphile]

Well, do I win the "most wierd" prize if I say that I thought Reloaded was the best Matrix movie? All the action and effects aside, it opened entirely new potential perspectives in the Matrix universe and really made me think about what was going on - it was filled with clues that pointed in all different directions, and it played with possibilities of the mind far more than the original movie. And it functioned on several levels as well, which is more than can be said for the two other movies. It lifted the veil for some truly mind-boggling possibilities towards the end, yet Revolutions sadly refused to build on that and instead used most of its time on avoiding them. A shame...

[EnderAndrew]

I enjoy philosophy. I enjoy psychobabble.

 

I see the two Matrix sequels in almost the same light as the first two Star Wars prequels. They had really great moments sandwiched inbetween some really less than great moments. Because of the franchise tag, we had really high expectations and judged them a bit more harshly than we should.

 

The freeway sequence in Reloaded still stands as the greatest damned chase sequence in film history.

 

Carrie Anne Moss broke her leg doing that sequence, and the city of LA refused to let them film, insisting atleast one person would die. They should no one could pull off such a sequence. So they went to the desert in Australia and build a stretch of freeway just to film that.

 

I think Revolutions had the greatest potential, and fell flat. It was very poorly editted, and the first hour drags horribly. The fight for Zion is really incredible, but the requisite martying of Neo just brings the film right back down.

 

There are some who suggest that Neo isn't dead, and that the resurrected Oracle is in fact Neo. You may note at the very end she is wearing Neo's glasses.

 

It would fit in with the whole Christ-Neo thing, and the whole trilogy being a reflection of Gnostic Christianity.

[Jediphile]

My problem with Revolutions was that it spent most of its time denying or ignoring the aspects that were revealed at the end of Reloaded. For instance, how can Neo disable the sentinels in the real world? The oracle gives a very cryptic answer - because his power stretches all the way back from "this world" to the machine world. Now note that "this world" would seem to be mean the Matrix, since that is where she exists. So Neo would have power than reaches from the Matrix to the machine world, yet he uses it in the real world? How can he do that? And why did usage of that power bring him to the train station? There is a lot of mystery going on, and he never explains any of it to his friends. That doesn't preclude an explanation, but while I can accept his reasons for not telling his friends, the movie suffers because it is not revealed to us. There are several clues scattered over Reloaded, that are more siginificant that it might seem. For example:

 

The Architect tells him that Trinity will die, and that he can't stop it. She does indeed die, just not in Reloaded as we might have thought.

 

The Architect reveals that Neo is not the first incarnation of "the One" and that Zion has been destroyed several times before. Neo accepts that, and yet how that all adds up is never dealt with Revolutions.

 

As Neo leaves Zion in Reloaded, a boy has left him a horribly bent spoon with the comment that he knows what it means. This is an obvious reference back to the first film, where a boy (the same boy?) tells Neo that he just needs to realize the truth in order to bend the spoon, because then he will realize that it is not the spoon that bends, but rather himself. And the truth is "there is no spoon!" What's the significance of that scene in Revolutions?

 

The elders of Zion show a lot of faith in Neo and Morpheus over the objections of Commander Locke and let them make decisions that seem strategically unsound, if Zion is to be saved from the burrowing machines. Why?

 

Councilmember Hamann (sp?) comes to Neo and they talk. This leads to a scene, where the councilmember concludes that "we need machines, the machines need us". What does that scene try to tell us?

 

All of this was very interesting, and there are answers to them. I speculated like Hell over them, after I saw Reloaded, and I went to see Revolutions to see if I had guessed right. Only Revolutions refused to give answers, and that is rather disappointing. Doesn't make it a bad film per se - as EnderWiggin says, the battle for Zion is incredible, as is the Hammer's flight back there, but plotwise the whole thing is a confusing mess that refuses to unveil its secrets. Therefore Revolutions could function only as an acition-flick, where Reloaded had depth, mystery and philosophical conundrums.

[EnderAndrew]

If you play the video game, it explains how Neo can affect the Sentinels in the real world, though the movie perhaps didn't explain it clear enough. Neo left through an exit of his own invention in Reloaded and didn't properly jack out. His mind was torn between two worlds for a while.

 

I think the spoon line was just a reminder and didn't need more explanation. The core belief behind everything in the Matrix is that power comes from questioning the existance of everything we believe in. Only in proper perspective do we gain insight and power.

 

There are millions of references, such as the young girl Sati, throughout the films for people who study religion and philosophy. For your core audience, Revolutions took way too long to get to the point.

 

I think they missed a great opportunity for a great set piece in Revolutions.

 

Neo was torn between two worlds, while Agent Smith was both in the Matrix and in the real world. I was hoping they would fight in both worlds simulatenously, cutting back and forth between a brutal, realistic fist-fight and the Super-Sayan-esque battle.

 

All in all, I was really unimpressed with the final battle between Neo and Agent Smith.

[alanschu]

I thought the final fight was rather silly.

[Jediphile]

If you play the video game, it explains how Neo can affect the Sentinels in the real world, though the movie perhaps didn't explain it clear enough.  Neo left through an exit of his own invention in Reloaded and didn't properly jack out.  His mind was torn between two worlds for a while.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Where? I've played through the game several times, and I've never noticed anything like that. In fact, Neo hardly ever appears in the game - I think we see him three times in all (standing behind Morpheus during the Captains' meeting, when he flies in to save Morpheus and the keymaker in the freeway chase scene, and when the crews of the Nebuchanezzar, Logos, and Hammer meet to discuss their plan of attack to give Neo his window to open the door). He doesn't ever even speak in the game (unless you count the sampled voice in the hacking sequence).

 

I think the spoon line was just a reminder and didn't need more explanation.  The core belief behind everything in the Matrix is that power comes from questioning the existance of everything we believe in.  Only in proper perspective do we gain insight and power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but I thought the spoon had far more significance than that. Otherwise there seems to be little point in having the scene in there at all.

 

There are millions of references, such as the young girl Sati, throughout the films for people who study religion and philosophy.  For your core audience, Revolutions took way too long to get to the point.

 

I think they missed a great opportunity for a great set piece in Revolutions.

 

Neo was torn between two worlds, while Agent Smith was both in the Matrix and in the real world.  I was hoping they would fight in both worlds simulatenously, cutting back and forth between a brutal, realistic fist-fight and the Super-Sayan-esque battle.

 

All in all, I was really unimpressed with the final battle between Neo and Agent Smith.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Neo-Smith fight seem was pretty disappoiting. We'd already seen Neo against a single Smith in the first movie, and Neo against multiple Smiths in the second, so returning to Neo against a single Smith was a letdown, particularly with all those other Smiths just standing around peeking - it defeating Neo was really so important, you'd have thought they'd do something besides watching with their fingers up their nose or eating popcorn or whatever... I wanted to see Neo and Smith throw buildings at each other and tear cities to shreds, since putting it on that scale would be the only way to properly reflect the significance of their battle. But...

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

If I was to use a non-d20 System rules set it would be Fuzion or the Hero System. I never really liked GURPS.