Kotor 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It is not eight times as much work. It involves writing a central biography, then adding customisations according to gender and alignment. Outside, this might be twice the effort, but I would argue otherwise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sure if you want a generic character. But wasnt it you who was just arguing that characters needed more depth and difference?

 

Lets take the obvious since this should make it clear how wrong you are about the ammount of work involved.

 

Male/Female

 

Now unless you want everyone to cop off with the same NPC you have two major differences right there in Carth and Bastila. Even more with the Exile in Atton, Micel and Handmaiden/Vissas.

[Jediphile]

The biggest obstacle for Revan and the Exile as NPCs is their lack of an identity.

 

Either you piss people off by assigning an alignment and gender , or you write 4 versions of each character (which is 8 times the work and much less solid).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True, but not unmanageable. Time has passed between KotOR1 and KotOR3, and pretty much anything could have happened to Revan in the Sith-infested unknown regions during those years. Personally I see him having turned dark sided again.

 

The same could be true for the Exile. I want him to have followed Revan, only to have Revan then turn him to the dark side as well and become the new Darth Nihilus. That serves all the possibilities of gender and alignment in the previous games.

[metadigital]

Yes, that I am arguing with obdurate people who are too worried about their egos than actually making suggestions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How is a healthy grasp of reality worrying about your ego?

 

In my view a suggestion that isnt grounded in reality isnt worth anything beyond setting up unreasonble expectations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can't convince me with specious arguments about fantasmal voodoo economics, so just add your suggestions.

 

Obviously haven't bothered to read the preceeding six parts to this thread; not only is it brimming with ideas that I consider completely unfeasible and totally unappealing for innumerable reasons, but many of these suggestions are repeated ad absurdum.

 

And yet you pick a fight with me for having the temerity for suggesting that better writing would serve a sequel better than some infinitesimally vanishing increase in graphics, that would cost a disproportionately egregious amount owing to the current deminishing returns yielded from investments in the technology.

[metadigital]

I would let you in on a little secret, though. Producing quality products is actually a way to define a market segment; it's called "differentiating with respect to quality". E.g., Bently make a car that costs

[Dark Moth]

The biggest obstacle for Revan and the Exile as NPCs is their lack of an identity.

 

Either you piss people off by assigning an alignment and gender , or you write 4 versions of each character (which is 8 times the work and much less solid).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's one reason why I think they should have the exile as the PC for K3. Doing another avatar would over-complicate things, I think, cause you'd have to be covering for 2 characters: one of whom has no name, and both of which have 4 different character possibilities.

 

And pllllllleeeeeaaaaassse hasn't this gone on long enough? This is the K3 ideas thread, not the "personal arguments" thread. Seriously, if you two can't agree with each other, then at least don't spam the thread. At least argue in the "Way off Topic" forum.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Just like there is no market for good quality shovels, or screwdrivers? Riiiiight. 

 

Or food. O, hang on, we covered that one, didn't we!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Look , whether or not you like it, the pricepoint of games is relatively fixed. No one is going to be eager to release the first

[metadigital]

It is not eight times as much work. It involves writing a central biography, then adding customisations according to gender and alignment. Outside, this might be twice the effort, but I would argue otherwise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sure if you want a generic character. But wasnt it you who was just arguing that characters needed more depth and difference?

 

Lets take the obvious since this should make it clear how wrong you are about the ammount of work involved.

 

Male/Female

 

Now unless you want everyone to cop off with the same NPC you have two major differences right there in Carth and Bastila. Even more with the Exile in Atton, Micel and Handmaiden/Vissas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, so my model needs an extra dimension, which is determined by the gender(assuming hetrosexual genders), this means that there are two different interactions with a character (at least) based on gender. There are also many different personalities, so I would add that to the model as well.

 

Still not that difficult.

 

You see, what we are describing (without your awareness) is the transformation of the writing from a cottage-industry-level to a professional level. I have had to provide business cases for corporations to explain this very procedure. And they all had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, because their industry was "different" and the manufacturing process couldn't be improved. I know this because I did my thesis on it at university.

 

Basically, the savings due to modularising the character management more than make up for the extra effort in administration to crete the system in the first place.

 

Otherwise, Toyota would still be making cars by hand, with each person in the assembly line doing their one specific task and no other.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

That's one reason why I think they should have the exile as the PC for K3.  Doing another avatar would over-complicate things, I think, cause you'd have to be covering for 2 characters: one of whom has no name, and both of which have 4 different character possibilities. 

 

And pllllllleeeeeaaaaassse hasn't this gone on long enough?  This is the K3 ideas thread, not the "personal arguments" thread.  Seriously, if you two can't agree with each other, then at least don't spam the thread.  At least argue in the "Way off Topic" forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not sure I would want to play the Exile again. Although it does have the most logical reason for being able to downgrade the powers.

I think if they go with that route then it's quite likely your going to end up fighting or joining Revan.

 

Dont worry once some actual topics come up it will disapear into obscurity.

[Calax]

Moth nether char had a name per se, they just gave the char a title or his origional identity to make it so that they didn't have to write themselves around a name like the guy's did in ffX. You know i wonder why you never eat in Kotor... Are you an Medpack junkie who uses packs as a form of sustinance?

[metadigital]

No, I said you were acting like an apologist, and I even gave you a hyperlink to dictionary.com to allow you the merest click to check what it meant. You took it personally, which demonstrates a lack of maturity on your part, not a lack of respect on my part.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While your maturity is demonstrated by enforcing a "my way or the high way" approach towards anyone else - if they don't capitulate and submit to your opinion 1000%, then they are the enemy who must naturally embrace the opposite of whatever you think and can therefore be attacked with impunity. The fact that you have repeated this approach toward ShadowPaladin when he dared to disagree with you speaks volumes

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Um, actually I was defending my point of view against a few naysayers, who seem to think they are the final arbiters on what is economical and evenwhat is reality.

Yes, that I am arguing with obdurate people who are too worried about their egos than actually making suggestions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, life is so hard and unfair on you... [sound in the background of the world's smallest violin playing just for metadigital...]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, don't worry about me, I do not tire, nor am I upset; it is my pleasure to continually defeat poor arguments.

 

Are you really as young as your last statement makes you appear? The last time I heard that I was in short pants ...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Yep, so my model neeeds an extra dimension, which is determined by the gender(assuming hetrosexual genders), this means that there are two different interactions with a character (at least) based on gender. There are also many different personalities, so I would add that to the model as well.

 

Still not that difficult.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Still way more work than you originally thought It was and dont forget thats only a single variable on each character.

 

You may have to just face up to facts that your model wont work on everything you apply it to.

[metadigital]

The biggest obstacle for Revan and the Exile as NPCs is their lack of an identity.

 

Either you piss people off by assigning an alignment and gender , or you write 4 versions of each character (which is 8 times the work and much less solid).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's one reason why I think they should have the exile as the PC for K3. Doing another avatar would over-complicate things, I think, cause you'd have to be covering for 2 characters: one of whom has no name, and both of which have 4 different character possibilities.

 

And pllllllleeeeeaaaaassse hasn't this gone on long enough? This is the K3 ideas thread, not the "personal arguments" thread. Seriously, if you two can't agree with each other, then at least don't spam the thread. At least argue in the "Way off Topic" forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. Sorry to interupt your mundane recitation of hashed and re-hashed ideas. (Have you read the previous six parts of this thread?) At least add something unique, if you insist on adding the same point that has been mentioned a hundred times before.

 

2. I am quite happy to leave my contribution stand, except I have ShadowPaladin trying to "prove" his pov is more valid than mine.

 

Every time ShadowPaladin posts a "must have the last word" lame response to my post, I shall point it out as such.

 

'Cause that's the kinda forumite I am.

[metadigital]

Moth nether char had a name per se, they just gave the char a title or his origional identity to make it so that they didn't have to write themselves around a name like the guy's did in ffX. You know i wonder why you never eat in Kotor... Are you an Medpack junkie who uses packs as a form of sustinance?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't eat because it is a trivial aspect of RL that would only make the gameplay less fun, without adding something useful to the game.

 

Just like the only time the Exile rests in in Telos, so that the vidphone can be triggered.

[Dark Moth]

The biggest obstacle for Revan and the Exile as NPCs is their lack of an identity.

 

Either you piss people off by assigning an alignment and gender , or you write 4 versions of each character (which is 8 times the work and much less solid).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's one reason why I think they should have the exile as the PC for K3. Doing another avatar would over-complicate things, I think, cause you'd have to be covering for 2 characters: one of whom has no name, and both of which have 4 different character possibilities.

 

And pllllllleeeeeaaaaassse hasn't this gone on long enough? This is the K3 ideas thread, not the "personal arguments" thread. Seriously, if you two can't agree with each other, then at least don't spam the thread. At least argue in the "Way off Topic" forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. Sorry to interupt your mundane recitation of hashed and re-hashed ideas. (Have you read the previous six parts of this thread?) At least add something unique, if you insist on adding the same point that has been mentioned a hundred times before.

 

2. I am quite happy to leave my contribution stand, except I have ShadowPaladin trying to "prove" his pov is more valid than mine.

 

Every time ShadowPaladin posts a "must have the last word" lame response to my post, I shall point it out as such.

 

'Cause that's the kinda forumite I am.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Seriously Metadigital, not everyone is going to agree with you, no matter how hard you try. You're just as resonsible for posting spam for the last 6 pages. Remember: your opinions are opinions, not fact. My advice: get a life and learn to let things go.

[Calax]

eh well you should be able too just to get life and Force back in the middle of a quest. I also just can't figure out why the npc's won't go see things for themselves or watch a jedi fight in the middle of the open, it'd seem much more realistic to me.

[metadigital]

Look , whether or not you like it, the pricepoint of games is relatively fixed. No one is going to be eager to release the first

[metadigital]

Seriously Metadigital, not everyone is going to agree with you, no matter how hard you try.  You're just as resonsible for posting spam for the last 6 pages.  Remember: your opinions are opinions, not fact.  My advice: get a life and learn to let things go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have never tried to convince people to my point of view (however right I think it is).

 

I have been defending my statements from those people who have

[Dark Moth]

Seriously Metadigital, not everyone is going to agree with you, no matter how hard you try.  You're just as resonsible for posting spam for the last 6 pages.  Remember: your opinions are opinions, not fact.  My advice: get a life and learn to let things go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have never tried to convince people to my point of view (however right I think it is).

 

I have been defending my statements from those people who have — at least initially, I hope — raised some of their concerns.

 

And, last time I checked, this was a discussion forum. We are involved in a (heated) discussion.

 

If you want to prattle on about why you think the Exile is better than Revan, good for you. I'm not impeding your free speech, so — take my advice — I would ask you to respect my rights as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're arguing about something that has practically nothing to do with the thread topic, has been going on forever, and is really not a big deal. And if you're not trying to convince ShadowPaladin you're right, then what the hell do you keep arguing for??!! yes, this is a discussion forum, but not for the kind of discussion you're having.

 

And I never said the exile was better than Revan, just that I thought it would be a better idea to have him as the PC in K3. You misquoted me. And last time I checked, this is the K3 forum, and what I posted has very much to do with K3. If anything, you're the one whose prattling on about some topic you just can't seem to let go of. I'll say it again...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Who is restricting the retail price of games? You had better let the government know, because it is illegal to do so (pricefixing).

 

Or did you mean that the market won't bear higher-priced games? Why not? Where is your extensive market researchto back up that claim?

 

Oh, right, that's the old "it hasn't been done yet, so it's impossible" argument. Gotcha. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Competition is restricting the price of games. Common sense really. There is absolutely no correlation between the "quality" of a game and the price. Zelda which is likely to be one of the top games of this console generation

[metadigital]

You're arguing about something that has practically nothing to do with the thread topic, has been going on forever, and is really not a big deal.  And if you're not trying to convince ShadowPaladin you're right, then what the hell do you keep arguing for??!!  yes, this is a discussion forum, but not for the kind of discussion you're having.

 

And I never said the exile was better than Revan, just that I thought it would be a better idea to have him as the PC in K3.  You misquoted me.  And last time I checked, this is the K3 forum, and what I posted has very much to do with K3.  If anything, you're the one whose prattling on about some topic you just can't seem to let go of.  I'll say it again...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quite frankly, I don't give a flying kick at a donut whether you want to buy Revan bedsheets and Exile pyjamas.

 

I am arguing about the feasibiliy, nay, the paramount importance of good writing in a game.

 

After posting this, several people have decided that they know better, and that I must therefore be wrong, and that, consequently, good writing is an optional extra as long as any sequel has more animations, hoods and hilts.

 

So I have rebuffed these ridiculous statements. And every time I think I am allowed to have my say, another comment is made.

 

If it matters to you so much, why are you prolonging this by engaing me in an argument, too? Because one thing is for sure, anyone trying to shout me down is not going to be successful.

[Dark Moth]

Yup. You win Metadigital. Everyone else is wrong and you are right. Frankly, i'm not going to waste anymore time with you. The only thing you've succeeded in doing is making an ass out of yourself. Here is what your posts for the last 6 pages have amounted to:

 

 

[metadigital]

[1]Competition is restricting the price of games. Common sense really. There is absolutely no correlation between the "quality" of a game and the price.[2] Zelda which is likely to be one of the top games of this console generation

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Quite frankly, I don't give a flying kick at a donut whether you want to buy Revan bedsheets and Exile pyjamas.

 

I am arguing about the feasibiliy, nay, the paramount importance of good writing in a game.

 

After posting this, several people have decided that they know better, and that I must therefore be wrong, and that, consequently, good writing is an optional extra as long as any sequel has more animations, hoods and hilts.

 

So I have rebuffed these ridiculous statements. And every time I think I am allowed to have my say, another comment is made.

 

If it matters to you so much, why are you prolonging this by engaing me in an argument, too? Because one thing is for sure, anyone trying to shout me down is not going to be successful. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

At least be civil to him.

 

Heres a news flash while I actually agree about the importance of good writing you still havnt demonstrated it's feasability in your "revolutionary vision".

 

However some people equally dont give "flying kick at a donut" about writing and want hooded robes and more hilts. The Irony is that would have much more grab value than good writing

 

I'm willing to bet there are more of them that there are of you and I so I know where my publishing funds would go.

[metadigital]

Yup.  You win Metadigital.  Everyone else is wrong and you are right.  Frankly, i'm not going to waste anymore time with you.  The only thing you've succeeded in doing is making an as* out of yourself.  Here is what your posts for the last 6 pages have amounted to:

 

[snip http://www.sci.fi/~jpoyry/huijarit/spam.jpg ]

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I have engaged in healthy exchange of views with a fellow in a democratic forum. You, on the other hand, have resorted to bullying tactics when you didn't get your way, and finally, the last bastion of the illiterate, the insult.

 

Congratulations! Here's an idea, why don't you actually post something useful, rather than attack me. Because I promise you, you won't win that fight.

[Nartwak]

The word 'ass' is not censored on this forum Mothman.