KoToR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[metadigital]

You basically quoted me and then said what I said in different words except in the end when you talked about the force power tree. I don't really trust the "AI" to pick my target so I would prefer to do it myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

pretty much...also the bit about losing Vitality with DIRECT DAMAGE attacks.

what do you think about that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see the long-term (or short-term, for that matter) penalties for being Dark Side in your summary.

 

I would expect the DS to be a brilliant short-term tactic, granting all sorts of battle advantages, but have some sort of cumulative effect; perhaps permantently losing a small amount of vitality points (or fractions of Constitution) every battle? This might be counteracted by having a DS power to boost vitality with Force points, at a minimal -- but proportional -- cost.

 

E.g. Permanently lose 2vp every battle where a DS power is used (whether the Force User is Light or Dark). But, have a Force Power that can add the lost vitality (for 240 seconds, or a typical battle length) by taking an equivalent amount of Force points.

 

This would help to manifest the entropy of the spirit that the Dark Side leeches from the body. It would explain why a dead DS FS is destroyed and doesn't become a blue ghost. (Perhaps Anakin in RotJ might be explained by Luke sacrificing some of his Force points to help redeem his father.)

 

Otherwise the pallid skin and zombie features of the DS are just cosmetic.

[Guest MacleodCorp]

I hate to burst your bubble, but KOTOR III will not be created. Lucas has stated in an interview that, "Star Wars was a curse, and I am glad it is over." Second, George Lucas and Steven Spielberg, according to Variety Magazine, have approved a script last month for 'Indiana Jones IV'. So, will there be a KOTOR III, most likely not. Lucas Arts. Obsidian, and Bioware have moved onward, and who can blame them. Its cool to speculate, but its over people. I have not come to these forums for some time, and I noticed alot of topics that are just being repeated. Thats cool. If Lucas himself has moved on, the game is officially 'DOA - Dead On Arrival'. Yeah, he stated in an interview that he is making a TV series, but he also made it clear its over! Sorry!

[Echo_Drive]

Well first of all Star Wars is NOT over. George Lucas is allowing his universe to continue through the Expanded Universe (EU). There is going to be another animated series (similar to Clone Wars) and a live action series (similar to Star Trek). In addition, Star Wars novels are scheduled to continue through 2008/2009 and beyond. Finally, there will always be Star Wars video games because they make money. Long live the Force!

[Stu]

And surely if that was true darthmacleod they would also stop SWG, or at least story events in SWG...

 

anyway, taken from another thread:

 

Ok, Hi everyone, I'm new to the Obsidian forums, but if anyone's ever been to TES forums you may know me.

 

Anyhoo, Thinking about KOTOR 3....

 

From what I can see there is one main problem.

 

1. How are they going to have a clean slate of a character without repeating other storylines.

 

and here's what I think can be done.

 

1. The ones already done are: Force powers cleansed by council and that whole death in the force thing.

 

Some suggestions from me: I didn't like how it seemed the standard was to follow the light side of the force, it was the expected of you and you was going against the grain by being part of the dark side. I would love it if you began and the standard was to align with the sith. So I got thinking on how it could begin....

 

You awake in a sith academy, you've recently been accepted into the academy some basic tutorial training can go on, you know, the standard stuf. then you get sent on some kind of quest by your master, you get a sith soldier to accompany you, you go off and do it but for some reason you're forced to stay somewhere overnight, eventually you get out, by now some bondings been done with the sith soldier, maybe you've seen his face and stuff, whatever else. So you get back and guess what? that's right, the republic's destroyed/ is in the process of destroying your academy.

 

So, you got anger, reason for revenge, some passion and some chaos....hitting the dark side route. and of course the sith soldier's gonna be egging you on.

 

now run with it.

 

- Stu

[PhantomJedi]

I hate to burst your bubble, but KOTOR III will not be created. Lucas has stated in an interview that, "Star Wars was a curse, and I am glad it is over." Second, George Lucas and Steven Spielberg, according to Variety Magazine, have approved a script last month for 'Indiana Jones IV'. So, will there be a KOTOR III, most likely not. Lucas Arts. Obsidian, and Bioware have moved onward, and who can blame them. Its cool to speculate, but its over people. I have not come to these forums for some time, and I noticed alot of topics that are just being repeated. Thats cool. If Lucas himself has moved on, the game is officially 'DOA - Dead On Arrival'. Yeah, he stated in an interview that he is making a TV series, but he also made it clear its over! Sorry!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't really care if another Kotor game ever comes out. All i want is another RPG along the lines of Kotor. I have, for the most, part enjoyed the game play and story from the games and would like to see another RPG of Kotor caliber, and by this I don't mean I want to see the story of Revan go on. I would rather play a Kotor style game any day rather than a Final Fantasy style game.

[Stu]

Well, there is The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion

[metadigital]

That is not an RPG in the mold of KotOR.

 

It has elves, dwarves, orcs and magic. KotOR has The Force and Jedi.

[Stu]

Meh, it may have...

 

I have big plans for modding it, ^_^

 

My big plan is to turn it from fantasy to Sci-fi. sooo many textures *gulp*

 

And there are no dwarves in TES, they're gone.

[MTJ]

Yeah the last one ate too much pie and exploded due to fatness

[Plano Skywalker]

I hate to burst your bubble, but KOTOR III will not be created.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

hey Darth, I guess you're not going to be tuning in to the new SW TV show then?

Anyway, I realize that I am not a moderator but I would remind you that this particular thread is about SUGGESTIONS for a possible KOTOR III.

 

If you believe that we are simply indulging in fantasy, then please let us continue to indulge in this fantasy.

 

now, where were we?

 

 

(p.s. before the creator of "Peanuts" Charles Schultz died, he had legal documuments drawn up that forbade anyone, including his heirs from doing anything further with his franchise....Tolkien did not do this and I doubt Lucas

will, either....so SW lives on even after good old GL is a blue ghosty himself....and hopefully that is many, many years from now)

[Plano Skywalker]

Well first of all Star Wars is NOT over.  George Lucas is allowing his universe to continue through the Expanded Universe (EU).  There is going to be another animated series (similar to Clone Wars) and a live action series (similar to Star Trek).  In addition, Star Wars novels are scheduled to continue through 2008/2009 and beyond.  Finally, there will always be Star Wars video games because they make money.  Long live the Force!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

right. what happened in Sept 2004 is that LA decided they had too much going on in house.....however, LA is, and probably always will be, very quick to license out the SW name if they think there is money to be made.

 

it is true that Lucas considers SW to be "one big detour" in his filmaking career...but it is a detour that has brought home the lion's share of the bacon.

[Plano Skywalker]

Some suggestions from me: I didn't like how it seemed the standard was to follow the light side of the force, it was the expected of you and you was going against the grain by being part of the dark side. I would love it if you began and the standard was to align with the sith. So I got thinking on how it could begin....

 

You awake in a sith academy, you've recently been accepted into the academy some basic tutorial training can go on, you know, the standard stuf. then you get sent on some kind of quest by your master, you get a sith soldier to accompany you, you go off and do it but for some reason you're forced to stay somewhere overnight, eventually you get out, by now some bondings been done with the sith soldier, maybe you've seen his face and stuff, whatever else. So you get back and guess what? that's right, the republic's destroyed/ is in the process of destroying your academy.

 

So, you got anger, reason for revenge, some passion and some chaos....hitting the dark side route. and of course the sith soldier's gonna be egging you on.

 

now run with it.

 

- Stu

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

one of the problems with these games from a story point of view, IMO, is that you used to be a Jedi. I agree that starting off as a Sith recruit would allow for more possibilities.

 

you get a dialogue trigger within the first hour about your view on Jedi and Sith and you have the ability to leave the Sith academy on someone's ship, etc.

 

I suspect most people will do that but those that want to stay DS and actually pursue the Sith/DS path can do so.....what if you want to play DS and be anti-Republic and cooperate with the Sith? Right now, the DS guy really only has one viable path -- to be the reluctant ANTI-HERO and defeat the Sith.

 

There needs to be an actual pro-Sith DS path in addition to the pro-Republic LS path, absolutely. And, if you want to go the DS path, you should not be chasing after Jedi mentors for training....you have Sith mentors for that. Faction membership in general needs to be implemented alot more, IMO.

[Plano Skywalker]

I don't see the long-term (or short-term, for that matter) penalties for being Dark Side in your summary.

 

I would expect the DS to be a brilliant short-term tactic, granting all sorts of battle advantages, but have some sort of cumulative effect; perhaps permantently losing a small amount of vitality points (or fractions of Constitution) every battle? This might be counteracted by having a DS power to boost vitality with Force points, at a minimal -- but proportional -- cost.

 

E.g. Permanently lose 2vp every battle where a DS power is used (whether the Force User is Light or Dark). But, have a Force Power that can add the lost vitality (for 240 seconds, or a typical battle length) by taking an equivalent amount of Force points.

 

This would help to manifest the entropy of the spirit that the Dark Side leeches from the body. It would explain why a dead DS FS is destroyed and doesn't become a blue ghost. (Perhaps Anakin in RotJ might be explained by Luke sacrificing some of his Force points to help redeem his father.)

 

Otherwise the pallid skin and zombie features of the DS are just cosmetic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hmmmm, yes, I agree that, ideally, the DS guy has the "short term" advantage but with a cumulative long term disadvantage.

 

For one thing, DSers really should not be able to use Master Heal, for instance, the way LSers can. Basically, make it so where the Force points you burn on a crossover power are not regenerated in the conventional sense.....only rest will recover that.

 

But then, there is no "fatigue" bar in these games....no need to sleep. Perhaps that would be a welcome addition....DSers are constantly more fatigued than LSers and have to use a special power to convert Vitality into Stamina. And since they cannot use LS healing powers without a huge penalty, that means they will be using the Drain Life powers more than Force Storm. The Drain Life powers are not as effective offensively as the lightning powers...thus, providing a bit of gameplay balance.

[Vatter]

What I want to see in KOTOR3 is a "real" force jump. (kinda like what we saw in EP3.)

 

If movement were a bit more free (such as force jumps), but still keeping the RPG elements of course so its not a new Jedi Knight game(even though I love those!), it would be way better than the first two.

 

I think, with new movement options such as jump and croutch, they could probably add more to the game's play time with puzzles involving the new skills and silence the people who say "combat is just one button."

[Stu]

maybe just the ability to jump as having your route blocked off by a piece of debris 3 feet high is just lazy. maybe just the type of cllimb over thing they have in killzone (for those that haven't played it, you go up to a barrier, press action and you vault over it.) perhaps the enemy could gain something on their "to hit" rating when you do this in regards to combat, Also I would like an option in a fight to select defend instead of attack. maybe by selecting this you don't attack on your turn, instead you get a plus to your saves and defence rating.

[metadigital]

Some suggestions from me: I didn't like how it seemed the standard was to follow the light side of the force, it was the expected of you and you was going against the grain by being part of the dark side. I would love it if you began and the standard was to align with the sith. So I got thinking on how it could begin....

 

You awake in a sith academy, you've recently been accepted into the academy some basic tutorial training can go on, you know, the standard stuf. then you get sent on some kind of quest by your master, you get a sith soldier to accompany you, you go off and do it but for some reason you're forced to stay somewhere overnight, eventually you get out, by now some bondings been done with the sith soldier, maybe you've seen his face and stuff, whatever else. So you get back and guess what? that's right, the republic's destroyed/ is in the process of destroying your academy.

 

So, you got anger, reason for revenge, some passion and some chaos....hitting the dark side route. and of course the sith soldier's gonna be egging you on.

 

now run with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

one of the problems with these games from a story point of view, IMO, is that you used to be a Jedi. I agree that starting off as a Sith recruit would allow for more possibilities.

 

you get a dialogue trigger within the first hour about your view on Jedi and Sith and you have the ability to leave the Sith academy on someone's ship, etc.

 

I suspect most people will do that but those that want to stay DS and actually pursue the Sith/DS path can do so.....what if you want to play DS and be anti-Republic and cooperate with the Sith? Right now, the DS guy really only has one viable path -- to be the reluctant ANTI-HERO and defeat the Sith.

 

There needs to be an actual pro-Sith DS path in addition to the pro-Republic LS path, absolutely. And, if you want to go the DS path, you should not be chasing after Jedi mentors for training....you have Sith mentors for that. Faction membership in general needs to be implemented alot more, IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, but the downside is you will have alienated a lot of the potential audience. E.g. check out all the posters in the KotOR 2:TSL General forum who can't play DS (<{POST_SNAPBACK}>). If you give them a character that is a (fully cognizant) Sith apprentice, then they just won't identify with them and there goes your immersion and suspension of disbelief.

 

It seems that it is better to have a small number of well-researched and documented characters, with varying backgrounds, then one main character.

[Plano Skywalker]

Ah, but the downside is you will have alienated a lot of the potential audience.  (E.g. check out all the posters in the KotOR 2:TSL General forum who can't play DS.) If you give them a character that is a (fully cognizant) Sith apprentice, then they just won't identify with them and there goes your immersion and suspension of disbelief.

 

It seems that it is better to have a small number of well-researched and documented characters, with varying backgrounds, then one main character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

well, if I had a choice, I would choose the more sophisticated option of several different backstories and starting points to choose from.

 

however, just to clarify: when I say "Sith recruit", I mean a raw recruit....a Force Sensitive who just wants to learn more about the Force and is not really a "True Believer" yet. He finds out what it is really all about within the first hour of the game and then he can switch paths if he wants to. I think people would go with that, but, again, being able to choose your own backstory would definitely be preferred.

[metadigital]

Well, no argument here, then. At least that beats the traditional amnesiac / raw Republic recruit thing.

 

I agree that it is better to have a heretofor insignificant character for a PC that may (and does) go on to be the saviour of the universe (Flash! A-aahhhhh!) than it is to have an all-powerful amnesiac that has to learn their past to fulfill some great task.

 

In short, it's better to have the central conceit: "many have tried, all have failed", rather than the "No, you can't be the chosen one! I will try valiantly, but -- ultimately -- fruitlessly to defeat you!".

 

[Plano Skywalker]

In short, it's better to have the central conceit: "many have tried, all have failed", rather than the "No, you can't be the chosen one! I will try valiantly, but -- ultimately -- fruitlessly to defeat you!".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

right-o....

 

strong in the Force = yes

 

chosen one = no

 

just as I like the ability to start at different angles, I like the idea of being able to complete the game (i.e. not getting killed) without accomplishing the main objective. that, of course, would require the main objective to be more than a boss battle at the end....basically 3 or 4 "main objectives"....you can complete the game without accomplishing all of them....you only "win" the game by getting all of them.

[metadigital]

Yep, I like that, too.

[Cassidy]

Here's something I have been thinking about for a few days. When an enemy is killed by lightsaber they should show it. They should be cut in half, lose an arm or their head, something that reflects the fact that they were killed by a lightsaber.

 

I also think that lightsabers should be the ultimate weapons, do much more damage, enough to kill in one hit, and also be very rare, like one for every Jedi. But I also think the PC should be the only Jedi in the game, or at most there could be one more in the party that PC can train, like a padawan.

[Rodimus2025]

Well I know its been said already many times my biggest thing I would like to see in KotoRIII would be different races for pc's and not to start out at low lvl like you did in KotoR I and II, I can understand KotoR I having to start off at a low lvl the Jedi had wiped Revans mind making him forget he was the dark lord but if he returned in KotoR III he would be alot strong then he was at the end of KotoR I cause its said in KotoR II he regains all his memories so that means at least in my opion he would be more powerful now , but in KotoR II you start off as a Jedi and exiled and powerless one but I dont see why you would start off with low skill's with say a lightsaber or your everyday skills like computer and such, the force abilities I can understand you'd lost your ability to feel the force, but you start off from sratch like you never knew how do do any of this so it would be nice to start off at say lvl 15 with a character. They could even say do something like they did in the Jedi Knight stories where you do a quick mission thru a training crouse after you do a character creation where you select your class race and if you want to play ds or ls each training will be slightly different with focuses on what each side fallows

 

I liked the influence system in this but I didnt like the fact that if you where playing a darksider it became almost impossible to gain influence characters like disciple, handmadien, atton and bao-dor so you could take them on as students because they seemed to want to lean more to the ls.

[Plano Skywalker]

...I can understand you'd lost your ability to feel the force, but you start off from sratch like you never knew how do do any of this so it would be nice to start off at say lvl 15 with a character. They could even say do something like they did in the Jedi Knight stories where you do a quick mission thru a training crouse after you do a character creation where you select your class race and if you want to play ds or ls each training will be slightly different with focuses on what each side fallows

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

KOTOR I had you start off with a designation such as Soldier, Scout, or Scoundrel.

KOTOR II had you start off as Jedi Guardian, Jedi Sentinel, or Jedi Consular.

As long as these games are about Force-wielding PCs, I prefer K2's approach.

 

I kind of like the idea where the first 5-7 hours of the game is in a structured learning facility (such as the New Sith Academy or the New Jedi Academy) and that when you complete this structured training, you are, say, 8th level.

 

However, I would like for this to be something we can skip via dialogue. If you skip it, you are already 8th level. This would make it easier to replay the game.

 

How many people complain about those low levels at Peragus and Telos when they are replaying? I've seen a number of posts about that.

 

Don't cut out the lower levels but make them optional. Absolutely.

[metadigital]

That's not a bad idea, but I actually like the K1 scoundrel, solider and scout initial classes (especially as they had different sized models).

 

Perhaps the non-Jedi classes is the bit you could skip, and be given a vanilla scout, soldier or scoundrel and start at a mid level? (Without all the neat plot-specific stuff you might find if you did that bit.) I wouldn't particluarly like to be a small child with Jedi powers -- although that does sound kinda cool, in a Sonic the Hedgehog kinda way.

 

Still, I would like to see, for example in K2, the ability to skip the dormitories and jump on the Harbinger directly. Just make it more difficult, so there is a much more difficult path with harder obstacles: puzzles and stronger enemies which, coupled with the lesser experience and loot haul, should balance out gameplay.

[Plano Skywalker]

if they did that, then there are many things that would presumably take place in the academy (Force powers training, lightsaber creation)...but cutscreens and dialogue could catch you up with that.

 

the advantage of the Academy (and making the academy optional) is that it is an entirely self-contained environment....however, on Taris, for instance, even early on you were getting some main story clues that you pretty much needed.