What Did You Think Of The Kotor Revelation??

[metadigital]

It's not a memory loss..it's a memory override

You see Revan's memery was overwriten with what was then the PC

He had his own memories,his own wishes,he had a past just like the character from BG for example...he was not Revan,he was the PC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is a fundamental plot in a lot of Sci-Fi: e.g. Blade Runner and Total Recall.

[Volourn]

It was a good twsit, and Baley is wrong. All the Revan twist did was give you a backgorund and a history; it doesn't neccessarily nullify your current actions and choices. YOU still role-play your version of Revan. You are still in control. The big thing is how the PC reacts to the revelation. Do, they get really upset with the Master Jedis for brainwashing him; or does he understand the reasoning.

 

It's muhc better than the KOTOR2 'revelation' that kreia is the uber bad guy or she was full of hate.

 

LOL

[Baley]

Um sorry Volo,that's not a revelation...I don't think anyone at Obsidian meant it to be one

 

It was a good twsit, and Baley is wrong. All the Revan twist did was give you a backgorund and a history; it doesn't neccessarily nullify your current actions and choices. YOU still role-play your version of Revan. You are still in control. The big thing is how the PC reacts to the revelation. Do, they get really upset with the Master Jedis for brainwashing him; or does he understand the reasoning.

 

He doesn't exist anymore in the end Revan regains his mind...so the PC can't care...

 

And it still was a horrible twist..it just seems that a lot of people were so cought up in the story and did not notice all the clues...

[Volourn]

"He doesn't exist anymore in the end Revan regains his mind...so the PC can't care..."

 

WHAT? What are ya babbling about?

 

 

"And it still was a horrible twist..it just seems that a lot of people were so cought up in the story and did not notice all the clues..."

 

I don't count as I was spoiled way before I got the game. Still, even with the spoilers; the twist was well done and worked as well as being logical.

[Baley]

  "He doesn't exist anymore in the end Revan regains his mind...so the PC can't care..."

 

WHAT? What are ya babbling about?

IMHO:

 

The PC's an entity created by the council..he knows only his memories...he is not Revan...

 

Revan regains his memories and stops functioning as the PC..from that moment on I consider the PC dead and burried...

 

"And it still was a horrible twist..it just seems that a lot of people were so cought up in the story and did not notice all the clues..."

 

I don't count as I was spoiled way before I got the game. Still, even with the spoilers; the twist was well done and worked as well as being logical.

 

It was too logical for a twist as you could see it if you were paying attention...

 

A good twist is suposed to fool you

[Volourn]

"A good twist is suposed to fool you"

 

No, it isn't. A good twist is supposed to be logical and be solveable by those wo are paying attention to the clues.

 

Unless you think the following is a good twist:

 

What if, in the NWN OC, BIO made you first cousins to the Lizard Queen; but there'd obviously be no clues until you find out. That be a poor twist as it come out of the blue and would not make sense.

 

A good twist is one that makes you think; not one that surprises you for the sake of surprise.

[Baley]

You need surprise in a twist just as much as logic

Otherwise it's not a twist....

 

 

And remember NWN and one the most predictable twist ever AKA Desther's betrayal..yes it was logical but it also tied your arms...and I think more people forsaw that then K1's...

 

Bioware did better on K1 because most players didn't see that you were Revan before the twist...but it was still far from perfect IMHO

 

I don't hate it because of it's quality..I hate it because of it's implications

[metadigital]

I don't hate it because of it's quality..I hate it because of it's implications

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see how you stop being Revan just because you suddenly get some extra memories. It doesn't come out of the computer and change *you*, you are still the one playing the game, making the choices.

 

What's the difference to being told at the beginning or the middle of the game? It's just a bit of backstory.

 

When you asked your parents where you were born, did it change who you were when they told you?

 

So far you are making zero sense.

[Hildegard]

Yes and I want to play myself..not a character which already has a somewhat predefined personality...

 

That's why I don't want to have Revan as PC in K3

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Star Wars RPG and some other non-star wars "normal" RPG are 2 very different things, you can thank L.A. for that.

[Baley]

I do not want to role-play a defined personality..

 

It would be like playing Blackstaff , Drizzt or Juhani...

 

I want to keep playing the PC which represented my personality

[Darth Flatus]

after the revelation your personality wasnt defined it was still open to your choices.

 

It gave your character a backstory

[Baley]

Perhaps but Revan still existed and I consider all the choices the PC's influence before being consumed by Revan after the Star Forge

 

 

....does'nt make much sense does it :">

 

Well that's my opinion

[Volourn]

"And remember NWN and one the most predictable twist ever AKA Desther's betrayal..yes it was logical but it also tied your arms...and I think more people forsaw that then K1's..."

 

The problem with the Desther twist is not just that it was obvious; but that it was spelled out yet you couldn't do anything about it depsite having letters to prove his guilt.

 

Your talk about the PC no longer being the PC after the Revan reveal is silly as the player still has 100% control over how to act.

 

To me, twists aren't neccessarily about suprirse. In fact, the best twists can be fugured out by the player (or viewer for movie/tv) before the actual reveal by the writers. That's a good twist.

[Baley]

I consider the surprise element most important..but hey it's just my opinion

 

The problem with the Desther twist is not just that it was obvious; but that it was spelled out yet you couldn't do anything about it depsite having letters to prove his guilt.

 

Yes and thet's why I said :"but it also tied your arms..."...that's what I meant...

 

Your talk about the PC no longer being the PC after the Revan reveal is silly as the player still has 100% control over how to act.

 

I said the PC was the summ of the memories inserted by the council and that's what I think.

[Dodecahedron87]

I didn't like the revelation that much when I thought about it later. The first time through the game, I thought it was cool and dramatic, but when I thought back on it later, I realized that it meant that the character I had been role-playing the whole game was the artificial personality the council had imposed on me. I don't think this is really a problem if you play as a dark-sider, because then your actions could be seen as the real you resisting the council's programming. However, if you play as a light-sider, then your actions are clearly what the council has programmed into you as opposed to your real identity as Revan the evil dark lord. This reduces all your roleplaying to a sham.

[metadigital]

I didn't like the revelation that much when I thought about it later.  The first time through the game, I thought it was cool and dramatic, but when I thought back on it later, I realized that it meant that the character I had been role-playing the whole game was the artificial personality the council had imposed on me.  I don't think this is really a problem if you play as a dark-sider, because then your actions could be seen as the real you resisting the council's programming.  However, if you play as a light-sider, then your actions are clearly what the council has programmed into you as opposed to your real identity as Revan the evil dark lord.  This reduces all your roleplaying to a sham.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or:

if you play DS you are regaining your most recent connection to the Force,

if you play LS you re-connect with the original Revan, before the fall.

 

Revan reverts to form in either case.

[Guest MacleodCorp]

I am a massive fan of KOTOR I. I loved the game. There is and will be no other like it. Within the revelations that "You are Revan!", how it was revealed was A+. Yeah, the game had its flaws here or there, but it was "Star Wars" theatrical. You felt for the story, characters, and the bits and pieces in between. Even the most anoying characters drove you nuts, but you still remember them.

 

KOTOR I - "Knights of the Old Republic"

When I read that name for the first time, I thought about "Knights". I didn't imagine "Jedi Knights". KOTOR I has this ancient story feeling, and the revelations were one of the most theatrical in a Star Wars series as of yet. Swoop Gangs, Other Jedis, Bounty Hunting, Pazaak, etc... Hands down the best of the series.

 

KOTOR II - "Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords"

When I read that name, I think of a revelations that is so dark, mysterious, and lurky. Revelations in this game did not come to pass, for I can now except this game as a sequal in a trilogy. I am not sure if this game needed to be theatrical in nature. Sometimes I want it to be, and other times it doesn't matter. Because this is a second parter, and was built under a years time, I have to say it is good for what it is... A second part to a three part story.

 

KOTOR III - "Knights of the Old Republic III - Outer Rim"

Yeah, I made up that name, but I can see something very close to that. With the upcoming XBox, I can only imagine the possbilities for this game. Within this game, you will get your revelations for KOTOR II. There is no doubt in anyones mind that this game will be made. Therefore, I have to wait till part three to determine if the KOTOR II reveltaions/cliff hangers were worth my time.

 

The Best revolation in my opinion, in this series:

"You are Revan!" - Theatrically!

You are the dead bad guy... That has never been done before. A+

[Yann]

i thought it was great

 

suddenly your character has some importance in the universe, plus i only saw it coming the second malak started talking before the revelation cutscene started

[Nartwak]

Numbnut.

[Dodecahedron87]

Or:

if you play DS you are regaining your most recent connection to the Force,

if you play LS you re-connect with the original Revan, before the fall.

 

Revan reverts to form in either case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure, you could also say that Revan is connecting with himself before the fall. In this case, he has been redeemed by the council. Still, this doesn't seem fair to me. The dark lord has been redeemed by brute force?

 

Redemption can be the most dramatic of plot devices, but the character being redeemed without any choices of his or her own is hollow at best. Remember the satisfaction we got at redeeming Bastila at the end of the game? That was a great moment (even if more cliche than the Revan revelation). What if instead, we had used some powerful force power on Bastila to cause her to suddenly become a good jedi again? This is exactly what happens to Revan if we accept this interpretation.

[DeathScepter]

Remember Childern this is a game and Revan is whatever you damn will please.

 

 

you can play Revan the Bad or the Revan the Good Guy.

 

 

 

what we know about Revan is to Tied the PC to the Game.

 

 

They did a good job. The PC needs to have a reason to be in the game.

 

 

 

Regardless of If it is Kotor series or the NWM, the PC needs a reason to be in the game.

 

 

Revan the Prodigy.

 

Exile the General and the Ex Jedi.

[Rosbjerg]

Or:

if you play DS you are regaining your most recent connection to the Force,

if you play LS you re-connect with the original Revan, before the fall.

 

Revan reverts to form in either case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure, you could also say that Revan is connecting with himself before the fall. In this case, he has been redeemed by the council. Still, this doesn't seem fair to me. The dark lord has been redeemed by brute force?

 

Redemption can be the most dramatic of plot devices, but the character being redeemed without any choices of his or her own is hollow at best. Remember the satisfaction we got at redeeming Bastila at the end of the game? That was a great moment (even if more cliche than the Revan revelation). What if instead, we had used some powerful force power on Bastila to cause her to suddenly become a good jedi again? This is exactly what happens to Revan if we accept this interpretation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You seem to view personality as something absolutely firm .. Revan was programmed with a new personality, but that doesn't make the new Revan invalid .. he is still able to make independent decisions just like the old one was .. so if he chooses to go LS, or DS, it is his choice, not the councils, since you (as the player) represents his free will ..

I don't understand why you think he was forced to do anything .. you made the decisions!

[Jedihuh?]

I liked the game, And I was to caught up in it to look ahead always in the now not the future, so I didn't see me being revan coming. I thought it was awesome...

[kemis]

Me neither, I didn't see it coming at all. The only time I thought I knew what was happening is when Saul had you in the force cages and pretty much spilled the beans with all the goading he did.

[Kalfear]

Hello

 

 

I was just wondering. what did you think of the Kotor revelation of your character been Revan.did you like it? hate it? loathe it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I didnt hate it, I just figured it was to obvious (the main issue I have with Bioware games).

 

Far as just the story line goes, it was needed and gave Carth yet anouther reason to whine (which was good I guess as his first whining topic was really getting on my nerves by that point).

 

I will say, after reading peroples ideas that Bastila should have been the main character of KotOR, im glad Bioware went with you as Revan storyline. Bastila wasnt a hero and her being turned was needed for the story to advance. Also her romance with Revan was needed to make sence of the storyline (whicj is where the female PC option storyline fell apart in K1). She was to important of a NPC to be made the Player Character of KotOR.

 

As I said, I didnt hate it, but I did figure it out by the time I was ready to leave Dant the first time. So my complaint wasnt the storyline but the overly obvious hint Bioware wrote into the game which ruined any of the surprises.

 

I mean, sit back and compare Atton to Carth (as both similar characters). Atton had secrets and when he finally broke down and told you his story you were surprised, Obsidian didnt ruin Attons storyline. With Carth, by the time you get his story your like," ummm, I figured that out 20 hours ago, what a let down".

 

Bioware did the same thing in Jade Empire, there were no surprises as they over hinted or point blank gave the story away prior to it becoming relevant. K1 had a great storyline, BW just needs to learn to quit giveing the story away before its time.

 

PS: As for the lack of memory in both K1 and K2, in retrospect im glad they did it that way.

 

After reading the K1 and K2 and JE boards, Im pretty glad Bioware and Obsidian went with the forgotten past portion of the games. To create characters like Revan or the Exile WITH memories intact would mean ALOT of reading at the start to bring players up to speed on the character. After reading the different message boards and seeing how many folks DONT pay attention to whats being said in game, to rely on players to actually read about their pasts would be asking for trouble and the boards would be filled up with useless questions about characters clearly answered in the game.

 

I think the amniesia way they went about it, minimizes the reading required, which minimizes the complaints from word go. Both Bioware and Obsidian were able to give you the key info needed to play and not have to worry about banging home non needed info by useing the route they went with.