Was Revan the ultimate Sith Lord?

[The Yeti of 66]

He knew everything that could be taught from Malachor.

 

Kreia knew pain in a way somewhat similar to Sion buy not exactly, she could take a heck of a lot of hits. Revan took that serious hit on his ship and survived. That takes some strength. I know Bastila lived, but she mostly just stumbled, Revan took most of that hit. This one I can back up the least but hey it's something.

 

He did not know hunger, but he knew the ability to feed to sustain and heal himself. IMO, he taught that to Malak (who used it on the SF) and he taught it to all of his students to an extent.

 

He knew betrayal, and understood it. According to Kreia, without such things, we would not be able to live or something like that. Without his betrayal of the Jedi, the galaxy and republic would be lost. Also, like Kreia said, the betrayer would know betrayal, and in turn be betrayed. He betrayed the republic and the jedi. His apprentice betrayed him.

 

Like the exile, though to a much less extent, he lived without the force, if only for a short time, but this just made hime much, much stronger.

 

He also made force bonds and was able to command people to betray those they loved and respected, to turn on innocents.

 

He seems to me like the most powerful MF to ever exist, even greater than the exile and all others before him. My favorite SW char by far.

 

Just a bit of speculation, though some of it is poorly backed up, so please either fill in the hole or shut me down. Debate!

[Sophy]

I think that for his time Revan's was the most powerful Sith,but remember Revan could have turned to the lightside,so then he could be the most powerful jedi.But maybe some ancients Sith or others that will come really after him (like Skywalker father and son) may be more powerful than him.

[The Yeti of 66]

True, but I mean for this age. For Kotor and the old ancient sith. This kicks the OT's ass in comparison. Maybe bioware and obsidian should have written the new trilogy. Then it would not be so childish, but deep and cool as it was meant to be.

[DarkLordoftheChicken]

I think Sidious is the ultamite sith lord...as it comes out he conquered the republic without even waging war against them, the reighn of the sith would have been permanant if it had not been for the betrayal of Vader.

[The Yeti of 66]

Um...Revan was much more cunning. He killed off nearly all the jedi at one time and the council had no idea about this until he came full circle and attacked.

 

Sidious was discovered after only killing a few hundred jedi. The clone wars was a crappy cover and any idiot should have seen that he was the one responsible. The jedi of those times relied too much on the force instead of what was right in front of them. That and, Sidious had to hide, Revan was in the open, openly doing these things and still keeping his cover. He was cunning and tactical and was still able to fight for himself. Sidious was only smart, not strong, with the proper preparation, Anakin could have destroyed the "All powerful" dark lord. Revan was unequaled except for those who he trained. Anakin and Luke had no training from Sidious at all and could take him.

 

Or to put it into a summary.

Sidious = Dirty filthy shriveled pickle

Revan = Super cool badass who can rule all

 

Kreia was also great, she was right there, *right* there next to her enemies and was still not even suspected until she attacked the council. Of course *you* the player could see these signs that pointed her our, but the exile saw or suspected nothing.

 

Sidious and mainly Dooku exposed the Dark Lord right to them.

 

Besides, if the Emperor was so great at forseeing everything down to when he had to pee and same with those around him, why couldn't he see the oppurtunity he was giving Luke to turn Vader.

 

What's more powerful than turning an enemy to your cause? This was *his* tactic and he couldn't see it right there.

 

He was too reckless. Many others planned ahead and thought these things through instead of relying on how 'brilliant' they were and on their vaunted powers. That's why Kreia and Revan and the Exile were so wise. They learned to live without the force and could use their eyes and their power together without it making them arrogant.

 

So once again, sidious = turd

[real cool]

He knew everything that could be taught from Malachor.

 

Kreia knew pain in a way somewhat similar to Sion buy not exactly, she could take a heck of a lot of hits. Revan took that serious hit on his ship and survived. That takes some strength. I know Bastila lived, but she mostly just stumbled, Revan took most of that hit. This one I can back up the least but hey it's something.

 

He did not know hunger, but he knew the ability to feed to sustain and heal himself. IMO, he taught that to Malak (who used it on the SF) and he taught it to all of his students to an extent.

 

He knew betrayal, and understood it. According to Kreia, without such things, we would not be able to live or something like that. Without his betrayal of the Jedi, the galaxy and republic would be lost. Also, like Kreia said, the betrayer would know betrayal, and in turn be betrayed. He betrayed the republic and the jedi. His apprentice betrayed him.

 

Like the exile, though to a much less extent, he lived without the force, if only for a short time, but this just made hime much, much stronger.

 

He also made force bonds and was able to command people to betray those they loved and respected, to turn on innocents.

 

He seems to me like the most powerful MF to ever exist, even greater than the exile and all others before him. My favorite SW char by far.

 

Just a bit of speculation, though some of it is poorly backed up, so please either fill in the hole or shut me down. Debate!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

no,no,no kreai lerned betrayal sion lerned pain nihlus lerned hunger that how it goes

 

and revan did not know huinger it was the exile he had that baility naturaly the rest just lerned that thecnique from him which makes him the true sith lord revan did not knew hunger only nihlus did and the exile get ur facts starigth

[DarkLordoftheChicken]

Well how come Revan didn't forsee his apprentice's betrayal? The only reason he survived is because the Jedi's mercy, any other way and he would have been as good as dead.

 

Sidious had alot less too work with, he didn't have a star forge, he didn't have alot of Jedi Masters to train him, he didn't have an army yet he managed to conquer the galaxy with what he had, Revan had all that and more...and yet he was not able to accomplish what Sidious did.

 

Revan also was not so "wise", if he was so "wise", and planned ahead, why didn't he do a little sabotaging the republic while they still trusted him? No he had to display his power without delay, sure he was able to turn alot of the Republic's army against them...but he could have done much more with the trust the Republic had for him at the time.

 

But again, the answer to this question is nothing but one's opinion.

[TetsuJedi]

The Force flows naturally very strongly through Revan. "Revan was... POWER!", per Kreia. Coupled with his intelligence and wit and battlefield knowledge...

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Well how come Revan didn't forsee his apprentice's betrayal? The only reason he survived is because the Jedi's mercy, any other way and he would have been as good as dead.

 

Sidious had alot less too work with, he didn't have a star forge, he didn't have alot of Jedi Masters to train him, he didn't have an army yet he managed to conquer the galaxy with what he had, Revan had all that and more...and yet he was not able to accomplish what Sidious did.

 

Revan also was not so "wise", if he was so "wise", and planned ahead, why didn't he do a little sabotaging the republic while they still trusted him? No he had to display his power without delay, sure he was able to turn alot of the Republic's army against them...but he could have done much more with the trust the Republic had for him at the time.

 

But again, the answer to this question is nothing but one's opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree. Revan was very cool and one of my favorites of all SW. But how could you not forsee your apprentice betraying you.

[The Yeti of 66]

I should actually take it back, Revan was not a true Sith lord, he merely held the title like Kreia did. He was manipulative, and appeared to be fighting the republic, but he was actually helping the republic by turning the jedi to his side to prepare for the war of the true sith. He was more of a.....really smart, strong, and doublespeaking Jolee Bindo, except that he makes a difference other than old man comments.

 

I dislike Sidious mainly for the reason that they screwed up in the Prequels and made it too obvious other than making it seem like a twist.

 

So, because of Lucas, I hate that old shriveled raisin.

 

Come get some.

 

Or not.

[Lord Satasn]

Um...Revan was much more cunning. He killed off nearly all the jedi at one time and the council had no idea about this until he came full circle and attacked.

 

Sidious was discovered after only killing a few hundred jedi. The clone wars was a crappy cover and any idiot should have seen that he was the one responsible. The jedi of those times relied too much on the force instead of what was right in front of them. That and, Sidious had to hide, Revan was in the open, openly doing these things and still keeping his cover. He was cunning and tactical and was still able to fight for himself. Sidious was only smart, not strong, with the proper preparation, Anakin could have destroyed the "All powerful" dark lord. Revan was unequaled except for those who he trained. Anakin and Luke had no training from Sidious at all and could take him.

 

Or to put it into a summary.

Sidious = Dirty filthy shriveled pickle

Revan = Super cool badass who can rule all

 

Kreia was also great, she was right there, *right* there next to her enemies and was still not even suspected until she attacked the council. Of course *you* the player could see these signs that pointed her our, but the exile saw or suspected nothing.

 

Sidious and mainly Dooku exposed the Dark Lord right to them.

 

Besides, if the Emperor was so great at forseeing everything down to when he had to pee and same with those around him, why couldn't he see the oppurtunity he was giving Luke to turn Vader.

 

What's more powerful than turning an enemy to your cause? This was *his* tactic and he couldn't see it right there.

 

He was too reckless. Many others planned ahead and thought these things through instead of relying on how 'brilliant' they were and on their vaunted powers. That's why Kreia and Revan and the Exile were so wise. They learned to live without the force and could use their eyes and their power together without it making them arrogant.

 

So once again, sidious = turd

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

Revan was not cunning in his actions at all....the jedi council did not want to go to war against the mandelorians because they wanted to see the true threat..they new the threat was there, and revan defied them and went off to war, that was an act of rebelion and they linked it to the darkside, even tho revan was fighting as a jedi, I'm sure they expected the worse, and then they knew after the war was won Revan had turned to the Darkside and so had the Exile, so they called that one....

 

and then Revan got betrayed by Malak very shortly into his new war against the Republic, Malak was more cunning in that sense because he caught Revan off guard....but....Revan was a better Sith Lord than malak and wasn't a brute and WAS intelligent...but not super cunning, just a good war leader....

 

now about Sidious...how can you even talk about him like that?

 

Vader would have killed Sidious, or Revan, for he was the chosen one...

 

It was either Anakin would have stayed the course as a lightsider and got powerful enough to defeat Sidious...but Sidious' war changed that, and turned anakin to Vader, so his true power was not achieved, but he was still the chosen one, so it took his son to turn him back to the lightside thru almost dying to defeat his master, the emperor, and die in the process....

 

Which means Sidious was just killed by his apprentice which is the way of the Sith, he was so old his time had come and you can't defeat the prophecy....

 

 

But Sidious's rise to power was the most cunning and secretive rise to power in the Star Wars universe...

 

He tricked all of the jedi and republic political leaders into war with the seperatist armies, who he created by the turning of a fallen jedi....every single piece fell into place for him...why wage a war against your enemies when you can have them fight eachother....

 

Sidious had many powerful apprentices that contributed to the Rise of the Empire in many different ways....Revan had one apprentice who was a dumbass and almost destroyed the entire republic, which revan only turned against to save right? well he didnt teach his apprentice very well eh?

 

And Sidious was much more powerful, defeating Yoda, staging a loss to Mace Windu, even tho he could beat him, only to let anakin kill mace, to turn anakin fully to the darkside, and so on and so on....

 

If you try to say Revan was more cunning than Sidious you are wrong....big time....

 

Revan-Greatest Sith Lord of that time era.....

 

 

Sidious-Greatest Sith Lord of all time

 

period

 

 

EDIT: And Sith Lords may or may not forsee their apprentice betraying them, but it's the fact that they are too blinded by their power in the darkside and they underestimate their apprentices-well those are the ones who get killed, at least lol....

 

And how did Sidious screw up the prequels???? No characters in the prequels have been forward in time and knew Senetar Palpatine would become the evil Sith Lord Emperor Palpatine...

 

The Prequels were to show how the events of the Original Star Wars trilogy unfolded...basically explaining the story and introducing u into the characters origins....not to come up with some new and original story line....it's not supposed to be a surprise who Sidious is except to the characters in the STORY! just like many many plays and irony in them and etc.

 

What do u expect these movies to be, a new story?

 

damn....

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"I dislike Sidious mainly for the reason that they screwed up in the Prequels and made it too obvious other than making it seem like a twist."

 

How can you not make it obvious when everybody who has seen the OT knows that Palpatine is an evil Sith that will one day rule as the Galactic Emperor?

[Lord Satasn]

Also....u said Kreia wasn't arrogant?

 

 

hahahahahaaa

[EddardStark]

Revan is a great character, but he's not even close to Sidious. That's nuts.

 

Sidious truly accomplished something that every true Sith, fake Sith, Dark Lord of the Sith, and Dark Jedi only dreamed of:

 

He ruled the galaxy and wiped out the Jedi.

 

In the end, it doesn't matter how he did it, only that he succeeded where every other Sith Lord failed. The Republic, which had survived for over 20,000 years, had withstood a Mandalorian invasion, Exar Kun, Revan, Malak, the second coming of the Star Forge, a Jedi Civil War, Darth Bane, and more was destroyed by the machinations of one man, Darth Sidious. I think that pretty much ends the debate.

 

If you actually need any more evidence:

-Sidious enslaved THE Chosen One by turning him into a Sith Lord. Revan was captured and enslaved by the Jedi Council.

-Sidious triumphed over Yoda, Mace Windu, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Anakin Skywaylker, four of the greatest Jedi EVER. Revan couldn't defeat those schlucks Vrook, Vandar, and Bastila Shan.

-For his/her great tactical mind, Revan was lured into a trap and his ship boarded and basically taken over by a band of Jedi.

 

Would Revan defeat Sidious in an isolated duel? Quite possibly. There's a good chance that Revan's skill with a lightsaber + his/her force powers would trump Sidious' own immensely strong dark powers. Give both of them a small fleet and Revan would outmanuever Sidious. Give each a galaxy and Sidious would end up ruling them both.

[blindfreak]

Everyone knows what sdious and Reven both did. While Sidious did manage to take control of the galaxy, the Jedi were not wiped out, and Sidious did not triumph over Yoda or Mace. Yoda coud easilly kick Sidious ass in a contest of Lightsaber skills of force powers. Sidious is no match fr mace and he knew it. He just le Anikin kill him to turn him to the darkside otherwise he would have lost. While most of the jedi were killed, a lot did survive and went into hidding. I've read all the stories and I belive that at least a few hundred survived, if not a full thousand. The jedi order was not wiped out dispite what Yoda and Obi-one say in the movies. Any ways, I belive that Vader is the Greatist Sith Lorad and not Revan or Sisious. While Reven was cunning, he was fighting one war to only get ready for another. If he had been smart, he would have brought evidence to the JEdi council of this threat so they could face it. While Sisious did mange to conquer the republic, he did not take over the galaxy. the empire only controlled a large portion of it. Darth Vader meanwhiles, had the balls to order the destruction of many planets and countless millions while standing in orbit over those planets if not standing amoung his enemys. He showed no mercy and he had fun while doing it. Sidious was a little punk who cloned himself to many times for his own good. Reven was power, but he never fully harnessed that power. Like GO-TO says, it leaves a lot of questions and no answers with Revens leaving to the unkonwn regions.

[DarkLordoftheChicken]

Darth Vader may have been the choosen one, and he might be very skilled with a lightsaber and the force, but he was really more of Sidious' servant, if Darth Vader was as great as you claim, why didn't Vader just overthrow Sidious himself and rule the galaxy himself? Because he knew he wasn't strong enough or smart enough to do so.

 

 

Edit: not to mention that Darth Vader also not only betrayed his master, but the entire Sith Order, he turned back to the light and killed the Dark Lord of the Sith, that would have been fine if he took the mantle of Dark Lord and continued the order, but that is not what he did.

[Dragonia89]

Well, obviously Vader could take the Emperor, as he simply LIFTED him over his head, and Sidious just screamed.

 

Anyway, think, Sidious planned the Revenge of the Sith for like his whole life, and all the time kept it a secret, and even as Chancellor where he would have the most media, he had a double life. Plus, he came back a few times...

[Yann]

Meh Vader was a crap sith lord

 

He might as well be swinging a baseball bat instead of a light saber his movements are so slow

 

I cant believe he got beaten by luke, it was pretty even with the slow 360 degree movements that took about 10 mins to do :D

 

Revan was an OK sith Lord but in a fair fight Nihilus would of beaten him, The Exile got lucky agains't him

[Arim]

Dunno...

But he does have a sweet mask and robes lol!

[Lord Satasn]

Everyone knows what sdious and Reven both did. While Sidious did manage to take control of the galaxy, the Jedi were not wiped out, and Sidious did not triumph over Yoda or Mace. Yoda coud easilly kick Sidious ass in a contest of Lightsaber skills of force powers. Sidious is no match fr mace and he knew it. He just le Anikin kill him to turn him to the darkside otherwise he would have lost. While most of the jedi were killed, a lot did survive and went into hidding. I've read all the stories and I belive that at least a few hundred survived, if not a full thousand. The jedi order was not wiped out dispite what Yoda and Obi-one say in the movies. Any ways, I belive that Vader is the Greatist Sith Lorad and not Revan or Sisious. While Reven was cunning, he was fighting one war to only get ready for another. If he had been smart, he would have brought evidence to the JEdi council of this threat so they could face it. While Sisious did mange to conquer the republic, he did not take over the galaxy. the empire only controlled a large portion of it. Darth Vader meanwhiles, had the balls to order the destruction of many planets and countless millions while standing in orbit over those planets if not standing amoung his enemys. He showed no mercy and he had fun while doing it. Sidious was a little punk who cloned himself to many times for his own good. Reven was power, but he never fully harnessed that power. Like GO-TO says, it leaves a lot of questions and no answers with Revens leaving to the unkonwn regions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Revan was power, why? Because Kreia said so lol....if she was around with Sidious she would have spoken much higher of him than Revan....

 

and Sidious did wipe out the Jedi Order....it's in the damn data bank....

 

 

Two broken Jedi and a few other losers remained after the Jedi Purge, Luke Skywalker was a new trained Jedi, of a new era, the old jedi were DEAD!

 

 

And you think yoda is so much better than Sidious? Then why was he forced to flee the battle.....because he was overwhelemd....you say Sid cheats...the scenerio still remains the same, yoda is stupid because he thought a Sith Lord wouldn't cheat in a fight...yoda should have been prepared...he was arrogant and lost to Sidious because he underestimated him....even after the turning of anakin and hiding in the shadows....he still underestimated him....yoda is a MORON who is WAY too glorified from his dialogue in the Old Trilogy....

[DeathScepter]

Well Jedi Masters of Revan's Time were idiots in both Kotor 1 and 2.

 

 

Revan went into War because he knew that the best possible way to defeat the True Sith threat is thru the Mandorlain Wars.

 

He went and discovered about this threat thru that War.

 

 

 

The Betrayal of Revan, Well he had Three Jedis infront of him ready to attack at any moment.

 

 

Revan is the Sidious of his time.

 

 

But Hurt the Jedi order in their own ways.

[Yann]

The jedi order is just funny.

You clearly win the argument agains't Atris yet shes soooo stupid she doesn't realise it and just keeps talking crap

[jaguars4ever]

the ultimate Sith Lord?

Marka Ragnos.

[Ioini]

Revan was an OK sith Lord but in a fair fight Nihilus would of beaten him, The Exile got lucky agains't him

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If Nlhilus tryed to drain Revan, it would have the same effects, since Revan was also scarred by Malachor V. So theres no way Nihilus would beat Revan.

[Darth Flatus]

Revan was an OK sith Lord but in a fair fight Nihilus would of beaten him, The Exile got lucky agains't him

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If Nlhilus tryed to drain Revan, it would have the same effects, since Revan was also scarred by Malachor V. So theres no way Nihilus would beat Revan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Says who? revan was never cut off from the force. he was a force user in the traditional sense. Unlike exile who was an empty well