Revan, The Exile, or a newbie

[bubblyofart]

Okay so lets sort this out,

 

1. by the look of things the majority of us want either Revan or a Newbie, so if any developer is listening the Exile can pretty much go out the window or better yet be the one hu rebuilds the Jedi council.

 

2. Most likely Revan won't be reprising his role as PC, so in which case most of us seem to feel that he should be an important NPC. Why? well just as the PT and OT r about Anakin, this trilogy (and we all know this should be a trilogy, though the money-grabber that is Lucas will probably make a 100 of these) is about Revan. So it should begin and end with him, even if it means he goes down in a blaze of glory - more so than Vader (i'd cry if the leader of the true sith is killed by being thrown over the edge i mean poor palpy after all the sh** he went through).

 

3. And for the Newbie. Well as long as he isn't another bloody amnesic I'm happy, i mean no wonder the Jedi and the Republic collapse if half of 'em aint got a clue hu they r.

 

4. Now that i think about it, 3 important characters strong in the force is going to take the piss slightly. oh well....

 

do u lot agree with this? obviously i do, lol. COME ON LA, WHERE'S OUR RETURN OF THE JEDI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[metadigital]

One more point:

 

the protagonist doesn't have to be THE CHOSEN ONE. This is old, stale and boring ...

 

... Just "The wrong person, in the wrong place, at the wrong time."

 

So, the PC can come from humble beginnings without needing to be supergirl who forgets she lost her memory ...

[Darth Blivion]

On a final, final note there is a reason why the fans are not being requested to make the next kotor. Fans come with the lamest outrageous and down right run-of-the-mill ideas. The devs may choose to use fan media or they may not thats up to them but in the end not many good or original ideas have spawned from these forums. Majority want Revan or Newbie but so what? Will there presence as PC make that large a difference in the next game. It has been my experience that popularity is not synonymous with quality. Obsidian in my view did a great job with their character the Exile and in many ways he was more fleshed out than Revan. Sure Revan is popular but so what?! He was mentined in the second game only for the purpose of continuity, he's not that special and this is not "the Revan saga" nor was it meant to be. Kotor is about the miriad of heroes that play their part in ensuring that justice prevailed in the galaxy. This may hurt Revan fan boys to hear but the focus of the series shifted to the Exile and as such the devs will do their best to ensure that the next game is as(if not more) immersive than/as its predecessors. The devs won't listen to popular opinion without there being significant reason to do so. So give solid reason why your suggested PC should be the one featured in kotor 3 not fan boy jibberish.

[Plano Skywalker]

BioWare likes to use the "chosen one" routine. Revan was, at the time, the latest incarnation of this device. However, this was an extreme case because you did not know for sure until late in the game that this was the case.

 

They came up with a good unisex name and unisex appearance (the mask). They came up with a character that can be thought of as hero or antihero depending on your perspective (this helped the devs write one game for both LS and DS).

 

In short, they captured lightning in a bottle. They did NOT intend to rewrite SW continuity to the extent that they did with this character. The fans misinterpreted the device and thought that Revan was supposed to be the focus of the franchise.

 

In retrospect, we can say that they should have known better but both BioWare and LA were in some serious uncharted waters at the time. The trick now is to gingerly extricate the franchise from one character.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I'll take a newbie raised by the new Jedi order which emerged in KOTORII.

 

If your going to write a game where you intend to use the same character for the duration, then that needs to be something determined from the begining so you can pace the game accordingly.

[metadigital]

... And also requires that the devs don't build in a ludicrous XP multiplier for all that is gained in the sequel ... "

[Eddo36]

The Exile was better at pimping it than Revan, but I'd rather have a complete newcomer. Maybe an "officially" female one for the complaining feminists?

[metadigital]

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

 

 

Nope, but thanks for trying!

 

Why do you want to have an "official" gneder? Are you that insecure that you need an external frame of reference? Just play and be happy. You should be content to be a small, important cog in the wheel of galactic history; no need to be the axel on which it spins!

 

[EnderAndrew]

Let me get this right.

 

People want a sweeping epic story set in Star Wars, where the main character doesn't come across as a chosen-one? No one called you the chosen-one, a child or prophecy, or a creation of fate in KOTOR:2, yet people made the chosen-one complaints none the less.

 

What exactly is the complain, really?

 

The Exile is merely a product of his/her decisions, and those decisions alone. I thought the Exile was a perfect example of a character that can enact sweeping change on a large scale without playing the chosen-one card.

 

Everyone loved Revan and few love the Exile. Can someone please explain this to me?

 

Revan isn't nearly as concrete as a character. I don't think we should bring back Revan and ignore the Exile. I think we need a new character whose background up to the point we play them is vague enough that we have total control over the character.

 

In effect, it would be like playing Revan in that we would have total control. Add a plot that makes the character bad-ass like Revan, and there you go.

[metadigital]

I'm not sure whether you are arguing for or against the Exile, but to state my opinion:

 

I liked the narrative potential of K2. It was a deeper and more complex plot, with rich gradients of ethical hue and potentially riveting replay value. Unfortunately this potential was completely squandered with a very poor implementation.

 

I liked Kreia's character: although I thought she was more neutral than evil and I was quite disapointed how the end made a lot of assumptions and corralled my role play into a single ending; alignment, gender, critical plot interaction and party status notwithstanding.

 

I would be happy to see another K2, with the proviso that it was based on a cogent plot and the potential depth was fully realised.

 

New character, Revan or Exile: I don't give a flying kick at a donut.

[EnderAndrew]

I'd be happy if we bounced between the two, or had a new character. I think it would be a sin to include either Revan or the Exile and ignore the other. The story wouldn't be complete.

 

I really can't understand how someone wants Revan back, but wants the Exile dropped. It would destroy the story.

[Plano Skywalker]

as someone else recently posted, the problem with returning characters in this franchise is that the games were simply not paced to do so. a 20th-level character is essentially a god in this system.

 

if K3 was current gen, then I think the Exile would be a good returning character...why? because of the way he draws Force powers, deleveling him would actually not be that cheap of a device....with Revan, however, deleveling him would be really cheap IMO.

 

however, if K3 is next-gen and gets a major media blitz and attracts alot of newbies (which it probably will) then the idea that K3 needs to be able to stand on its own feet is that much greater and the chances of a newbie PC is almost assured.

 

K3 can introduce a new protagonist but it needs to wrap up ALL of the dangling plots out there (and there are many). Giving Revan some real resolution is essential, IMO.

[EnderAndrew]

The Ultima series restarted you at level 1. No one really complained too much. Ultima IV-VI then let you bring your character from Ultima IV into V, and then VI. But you still had a cap, and you didn't continue to level.

 

Revan and the Exile should start at level 10. It's enough to give them a few Force powers, and then slowly allow players to progress to say level 30.

 

You also split time between two parties in different areas of the galaxy, like Square used to do with titles like FF3/6. People loved it. They also loved replaying the game, and sending different party members to different places to see what would happen. It slows down level progression as you spend time leveling one group of players, and then jump to your other party members in a different area, and level them.

[metadigital]

That's all very sensible and therefore I predict won't happen. :D

 

Actually I think that multiplying the focus out to differnt groups is a terrific idea. OE toyed with it on Peragus II, Telos Station and Dxun, but (apart from the last one) the effect was muted.

 

I would be pleased to see this sort of dynamic; you could have vastly different classes (okay, this is SW, so slightly different classes) working towards a common strategic goal with their own internecine issues and counter-tactics to manage - preferably in isolation either due to the distance, environment or urgency of the scenario.

 

That reads like an epic novel (e.g. LotR); it is also a tatic used frequently in most fiction writing that I read.

 

[EnderAndrew]

The Star Wars movies, and all the novels use this tactic of two or three groups on different planets handing different tasks, that often combine together at the climax.

 

Tell me it wouldn't make sense to utilize it in a Star Wars game?

[Plano Skywalker]

The Star Wars movies, and all the novels use this tactic of two or three groups on different planets handing different tasks, that often combine together at the climax.

 

Tell me it wouldn't make sense to utilize it in a Star Wars game?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

yes, and that is one area where having a padawan a real padawan would be nice...your padawan is leading one of the threads while your PC is leading another.

[metadigital]

Now I think about it I don't know too many novels that don't emply this tactic (The Stainless Steel Rat series might be one ... don't look at me like that, I didn't buy them, and I only managed to read one and a bit, and that was because I swapped some good books for them and I was stuck with them on a long boring journey ...)

 

Anywho, the pratice is well established in prose; it is just a matter of successfully transplanting it across into the sister genre of RPGs.

 

We've had a stillbirth with K2, let's hope a post-/mid-apocalyptic RPG comes along with these tactics to unfold a killer plot full of deep, interesting and engaging characters!

 

*sigh*

[EnderAndrew]

Perhaps Obsidian planned on implementing it more in K3, and that's why they hint at it in K2?

[metadigital]

K2 was the practice arena? An RPG with training wheels? :D

[EnderAndrew]

Well these guys are all new to the field. Obsidian is a new company, and I don't think any of these guys have worked on RPGs before,

 

[Ions]

I agree they should make the game take more than one PC and have different story threads that tie together in the end. Like the Star Wars films did. I think Revan and Exile should be a 2 man unit, and no other party members for them(Revan sent for Exile after all). Where as the newbie that forms the other PC & story thread should be one of those that part of the preparation for the defense of the Republic(perhaps trained by Handmaiden or Visas). Be cool to go from high end Epic content with Revan and Exile, to more normal fighting and missions with a newbie. To fill out Revan and Exile, perhaps send HK47, to fill the 3rd spot. Otherwise keep those two seperate from the Republic, and have them do really hard missions, direct missions so theres no flying between places, you start as them at the beginning of a area and proceed forward with their own quest till its finished, then your pov returns to the newbie(and the Newbie plays like the first two games, flying between planets, heaps of side quests). They are like interludes from the newbie, and push the plot forward. And since both Revan and Exile are PC's, you can choose to be either.

 

Perhaps the newbie after gaining power helps strengthen the republic by going around to key support/production worlds and clearly out problems(the main thrust of the Newbie is to do this), to help keep the republic strong. And late in the game Newbie and Revan and Exile form into a party(if at all).

 

I hope the 3rd game does have a new engine. Maybe even a game made for xbox 360, better visuals, more models on screen. Physics into the gameplay, and puzzles perhaps. (w00t) Probably to good to be true.

[Plano Skywalker]

I think Revan and Exile should be a 2 man unit, and no other party members for them(Revan sent for Exile after all).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that could actually happen. During the endgame, it goes multithreaded. In one of the threads, you play a 2-person party of Revan and the Exile. You also have your PC thread and possibly your padawan thread.

 

Something like this could work...it's just that seeing a returning character as the PC is highly unlikely.

[metadigital]

The only reason to have a party of three rather than two is to make the game easier (more available skills and feats -- whether for combat or quest); so a two-member party would be feasible and a good idea, I agree.

 

And the idea of bifurcating the team(s -- I would argue that have two teams, master- and apprentice-led, and have them encounter obstacles that require further division of resources, so we eventually get single PC options).

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Sounds boring. Even with hands on controls Jade Empire felt like a major step backwards because you only had one rather useless NPC and that NPC didnt do much (in fact it was most useful when it was sat on its arse).

 

Rather than less, you want more NPCs in combat , and more things to fight against. Dont see it being as much of a problem with the muscle of the next gens behind it.

 

If you want an idea just how insipid KOTOR could be with only two characters, play the first few levels of EPIII where Anakin and Obi Wan are fighting side by side (then imagine that without actually having to control him in real time).

[metadigital]

Pass. But I did play Lego Star Wars, and that's a blast.

 

Not sure what your beef is: two players are boring, but six (or a larger number than three) is better? I thought Wizardry 8 was appalling, and that had two groups facing off against each other -- it just elongated combat to the point where individual battles took half an hour or more -- what's the gain?

 

I don't object to more party members per se, but the more members, the less they individually have to do = less important they are overall = pointless one-quest-problem-specific player abilities (like the Beast Trick in K2) = boring, to me.

 

I'm all for having bigger parties: maybe some local mercenaries join in (red shirts ), and some bonus for each one saved at the end of the section (could be rescued hostages, too, in higher levels). More active members (so not counting hostages) = smaller share of the XP pie, so taking more risks with fewer members is rewarded with a higher passing level ... opens up more possibilities for game play.