Talking With Canderous

[Dooku]

In KOTOR, if you ask Canderous about the Mandalorian Wars (I did it in the Jedi Enclave) he'll say something to the effect of: "...the Sith approached up with an offer we couldn't refuse..." in reference (IIRC) to what spawned the MWs.

 

The Sith that he refers to were obviously not Malak and Revan since they fought against the Mandalorians.

 

Is it possible that (as Kreia said at the end of KOTOR2) Revan knows that the "real" Sith are on the Outer Rim and did encourage the Mandalorian Wars, just as Canderous tells him in KOTOR?

[GhostofAnakin]

That would appear to be a strong possibility.

[1eyedParrot]

In KOTOR, if you ask Canderous about the Mandalorian Wars (I did it in the Jedi Enclave) he'll say something to the effect of: "...the Sith approached up with an offer we couldn't refuse..." in reference (IIRC) to what spawned the MWs.

 

The Sith that he refers to were obviously not Malak and Revan since they fought against the Mandalorians.

 

Is it possible that (as Kreia said at the end of KOTOR2) Revan knows that the "real" Sith are on the Outer Rim and did encourage the Mandalorian Wars, just as Canderous tells him in KOTOR?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That, or Sith under the assumed "Jedi" Revan approached the Mandalorians and Revan tricked the Mandalorians and Republic into fighting to 1) create a reason for Jedi to go to war, 2) create feelings of resentment between wartime soldiers/Jedi and those sitting safe back at home, 3) use said war to convert Jedi into Sith, 4) use the acquired, now very loyal, former Republic fleet to capture the starforge, 5) conquer the Republic and combine the Starforge and the power of a geared up wartime Republic economy and military to strengthen the thousands of worlds against the coming battles against the True Sith.

 

Part 5 didn't really pan out, as Revan, DS and LS, left known space to fight the True Sith out there.

[Darth Nuke]

I think it's clearly implied in KOTOR 2 that the True Sith are the one's who came to the Mandalorians with an offer. IT sure wasn't Revan, and his Revan/Malak sith.

 

The true sith didn't want a race like the Mandalorians to get in their way since the Mandalorians are the best warriors in the galaxy.

 

The Sith are good at setting the game board, just like Palpatine did with the Clone Wars.

 

They weaken their enemies so that when it comes time to take over, no one will stand against them, ever.

[1eyedParrot]

I think it's clearly implied in KOTOR 2 that the True Sith are the one's who came to the Mandalorians with an offer. IT sure wasn't Revan, and his Revan/Malak sith.

 

The true sith didn't want a race like the Mandalorians to get in their way since the Mandalorians are the best warriors in the galaxy.

 

The Sith are good at setting the game board, just like Palpatine did with the Clone Wars.

 

They weaken their enemies so that when it comes time to take over, no one will stand against them, ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

However the catch is that the Mandalorians would of conquered the Republic without Jedi Intertevention, and would of become even stronger with the combined power of their race and the Republic. So unless the True Sith were counting on Jedi, or rather Revan to intervene then it makes no sense for them to encourage the Mandalorians along.

 

Also note that Palpatine orchestrated both wars, with the Clone wars paving the way for the Galactic war to further cement his power in every corner of known space. He planned all that, now why wouldn't Revan have the same strategic forethought?

 

I'll go along though and assume the True Sith predicted the Jedi's involvement, however if they had enough foresight for this then surely they would had the foresight to see that by allowing the Jedi to go war they would be strengthening the Jedi Order. Revan and the Exile become the two most powerful Jedi(or para-sith, not True Sith) in the known galaxy within the span of 10 years. Imagine how much more powerful it would of become in the next 50 years with Revan and the Exile teaching hundreds of new padawans? Sure alot of Jedi died in the two wars, but most of them were the weak ones, untrained in battle. Niether Revan nor the Exile(who are niether extremist Sith or Jedi, seeing as the facts say that even being totally DS they still strive to keep the Republic intact and in fighting form) would allow new students to be unlearned in the ways of battle.

 

So if the True Sith are responsible for encouraging the Mandalorians then either way they ****ed themselves. Regardless, you never gave any reasons why Revan wouldn't scheme the two wars the way I posted previously besides "IT sure wasn't Revan".

[Darth Nuke]

because your going by theory, I'm going by what's in teh game.

 

Revan joined the Mandalorians Wars because he knew the Republic needed the Jedi, and that the Jedi could stop the Mandalorians. After the war, Revan began to figure that something else was behind the Mandalorian Wars, and thus felt that by having the Star forge and becoming a Sith, he would be able to prepare the Republic for a war against the Sith.

 

Revan wasn't like Palpatine he was like Thrawn, and was only fighting the Republic to prepare it for war.

 

The true sith are the true enemy all along, not Revan, the Mandalorians, Nihilus, Kreia, or Malak.

 

They did played everyone in an attempt to have their enemies destroyed. Now the mandalorian, the Jedi, are to weak to stand against them. They can enter the galaxy now and the Republic couldn't stop them.

[AlanC9]

However the catch is that the Mandalorians would of conquered the Republic without Jedi Intertevention, and would of become even stronger with the combined power of their race and the Republic. So unless the True Sith were counting on Jedi, or rather Revan to intervene then it makes no sense for them to encourage the Mandalorians along.

 

I don't really buy that. The Mandalorians aren't Force wielders, so the True Sith would probably have a free hand with them if they actually managed to conquer the Republic.

[Ulicus]

I think it's clearly implied in KOTOR 2 that the True Sith are the one's who came to the Mandalorians with an offer. IT sure wasn't Revan, and his Revan/Malak sith.

 

The true sith didn't want a race like the Mandalorians to get in their way since the Mandalorians are the best warriors in the galaxy.

 

The Sith are good at setting the game board, just like Palpatine did with the Clone Wars.

 

They weaken their enemies so that when it comes time to take over, no one will stand against them, ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

However the catch is that the Mandalorians would of conquered the Republic without Jedi Intertevention, and would of become even stronger with the combined power of their race and the Republic. So unless the True Sith were counting on Jedi, or rather Revan to intervene then it makes no sense for them to encourage the Mandalorians along.

 

Also note that Palpatine orchestrated both wars, with the Clone wars paving the way for the Galactic war to further cement his power in every corner of known space. He planned all that, now why wouldn't Revan have the same strategic forethought?

 

I'll go along though and assume the True Sith predicted the Jedi's involvement, however if they had enough foresight for this then surely they would had the foresight to see that by allowing the Jedi to go war they would be strengthening the Jedi Order. Revan and the Exile become the two most powerful Jedi(or para-sith, not True Sith) in the known galaxy within the span of 10 years. Imagine how much more powerful it would of become in the next 50 years with Revan and the Exile teaching hundreds of new padawans? Sure alot of Jedi died in the two wars, but most of them were the weak ones, untrained in battle. Niether Revan nor the Exile(who are niether extremist Sith or Jedi, seeing as the facts say that even being totally DS they still strive to keep the Republic intact and in fighting form) would allow new students to be unlearned in the ways of battle.

 

So if the True Sith are responsible for encouraging the Mandalorians then either way they ****ed themselves. Regardless, you never gave any reasons why Revan wouldn't scheme the two wars the way I posted previously besides "IT sure wasn't Revan".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aye.

 

I've always been partial to the Revan/Palpatine parallel.

 

However I do think KotOR 2 is trying to imply that was the True Sith who went to the mandalorians - despite the flaws in that logic that you've picked out.

 

*Shrug* Who knows.

[Shadowace]

hmm intresting point, but i think reven got the mando to fight to get the republic rdy for the true sith war, like in the game kria was talking about reven didn't fall to the dark side, it was only to get them rdy, or something like that i think

[Darth Nuke]

hmm intresting point, but i think reven got the mando to fight to get the republic rdy for the true sith war, like in the game kria was talking about reven  didn't fall to the dark side, it was only to get them rdy, or something like that i think

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

It wasn't Revan, it was the True Sith. This is implied in KOTOR 2.

 

The games says this some, look at it.

 

The point was for the True Sith to set up their enemies so that when the time was right to attack, they wouldn't be around.

 

Revan caught on to the ploy, and descided to prepare the Republic for war, but it looks like the True Sith were even more ready for that.

 

Then Kreia and Exile come along and get the last of their enemies out in the open, and slay them.

 

Now the Republic is a Sith playing field, ready and ripe for the picking.

[Darth Nuke]

I think it's clearly implied in KOTOR 2 that the True Sith are the one's who came to the Mandalorians with an offer. IT sure wasn't Revan, and his Revan/Malak sith.

 

The true sith didn't want a race like the Mandalorians to get in their way since the Mandalorians are the best warriors in the galaxy.

 

The Sith are good at setting the game board, just like Palpatine did with the Clone Wars.

 

They weaken their enemies so that when it comes time to take over, no one will stand against them, ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

However the catch is that the Mandalorians would of conquered the Republic without Jedi Intertevention, and would of become even stronger with the combined power of their race and the Republic. So unless the True Sith were counting on Jedi, or rather Revan to intervene then it makes no sense for them to encourage the Mandalorians along.

 

Also note that Palpatine orchestrated both wars, with the Clone wars paving the way for the Galactic war to further cement his power in every corner of known space. He planned all that, now why wouldn't Revan have the same strategic forethought?

 

I'll go along though and assume the True Sith predicted the Jedi's involvement, however if they had enough foresight for this then surely they would had the foresight to see that by allowing the Jedi to go war they would be strengthening the Jedi Order. Revan and the Exile become the two most powerful Jedi(or para-sith, not True Sith) in the known galaxy within the span of 10 years. Imagine how much more powerful it would of become in the next 50 years with Revan and the Exile teaching hundreds of new padawans? Sure alot of Jedi died in the two wars, but most of them were the weak ones, untrained in battle. Niether Revan nor the Exile(who are niether extremist Sith or Jedi, seeing as the facts say that even being totally DS they still strive to keep the Republic intact and in fighting form) would allow new students to be unlearned in the ways of battle.

 

So if the True Sith are responsible for encouraging the Mandalorians then either way they ****ed themselves. Regardless, you never gave any reasons why Revan wouldn't scheme the two wars the way I posted previously besides "IT sure wasn't Revan".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aye.

 

I've always been partial to the Revan/Palpatine parallel.

 

However I do think KotOR 2 is trying to imply that was the True Sith who went to the mandalorians - despite the flaws in that logic that you've picked out.

 

*Shrug* Who knows.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually there is no flaw in logic. The Sith foresaw everything, all Revan,Malak, and Exile did was make things worse.

 

Revan wanted to prepare the Galaxy, but Malak didn't want that. Now Revan's plan went totally wrong when he was captured. Once he found out who he was, he still didn't remember his reasons for going Sith, only the revenge he felt in destroying Malak. Thus his super weapon is destroyed, and a good number of Sith are destroyed.

 

Exile gets the Jedi Masters, and the remaining Revan/Malak Sith out in the open, and they are destroyed.

 

The True Sith are smart, look at how they played the game. Revan, The Mandalorians, Exile, Kreia, all tools to soe the great sceme together.

 

I'm sure their are some flaws, but either way the game is won, and no one stands in the True Sith way thanks to the Great Jedi like Revan and Exile.

[Aishur-Rim-Nisheshu]

My take on the story arc is that Revan only became aware of the presence of the "true Sith" only after the events of KoTOR. This much I got from the Holograms of Bastila and Carth.

 

I do not know if the "true Sith" were aware of the presence of the Star Forge. Most likely not since Revan and Malak were able to find it and master it. Perhaps an oversight in planning.

[Marka Ragnos]

I don't think the whole revan started the mandalorian wars makes sense because when the mandalorian wars started revan was still only a jedi knight serving the jedi. as for who really told the mandalorians to attack the republic I don't think it was the true sith. I think it was the sith we all know and "love". If in KotOR you talked to canderous a bit he says that he had suffered a huge defeat to the sith and of course like in earlier posts he says that the sith came to them with an offer about attacking the republic. i think it was the sith we know that defeated the mandalorians then told the mandalorians about the republic and so the mandalorians attacked the republic. just my 2 cents.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

It's kinda annoying when things like this are posted when I was the FIRST to post it, at least I think I was " : http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=19466&hl=

 

 

I think it's clearly implied in KOTOR 2 that the True Sith are the one's who came to the Mandalorians with an offer. IT sure wasn't Revan, and his Revan/Malak sith.

 

The true sith didn't want a race like the Mandalorians to get in their way since the Mandalorians are the best warriors in the galaxy.

 

The Sith are good at setting the game board, just like Palpatine did with the Clone Wars.

 

They weaken their enemies so that when it comes time to take over, no one will stand against them, ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree. The Sith started to set everything in motion once they asked the Mandalorians to attack the Republic, probably knowing the the Order would do nothing. Revan went to war to help the Republic but his plans were ruined with his mind wipe and the Exile, LS or DS, destroys the Repubic some more. Now all they have to do is take care of Revan and the Exile. All is as they have forseen.

 

I think it's clearly implied in KOTOR 2 that the True Sith are the one's who came to the Mandalorians with an offer. IT sure wasn't Revan, and his Revan/Malak sith.

 

The true sith didn't want a race like the Mandalorians to get in their way since the Mandalorians are the best warriors in the galaxy.

 

The Sith are good at setting the game board, just like Palpatine did with the Clone Wars.

 

They weaken their enemies so that when it comes time to take over, no one will stand against them, ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

However the catch is that the Mandalorians would of conquered the Republic without Jedi Intertevention, and would of become even stronger with the combined power of their race and the Republic. So unless the True Sith were counting on Jedi, or rather Revan to intervene then it makes no sense for them to encourage the Mandalorians along.

 

Also note that Palpatine orchestrated both wars, with the Clone wars paving the way for the Galactic war to further cement his power in every corner of known space. He planned all that, now why wouldn't Revan have the same strategic forethought?

 

I'll go along though and assume the True Sith predicted the Jedi's involvement, however if they had enough foresight for this then surely they would had the foresight to see that by allowing the Jedi to go war they would be strengthening the Jedi Order. Revan and the Exile become the two most powerful Jedi(or para-sith, not True Sith) in the known galaxy within the span of 10 years. Imagine how much more powerful it would of become in the next 50 years with Revan and the Exile teaching hundreds of new padawans? Sure alot of Jedi died in the two wars, but most of them were the weak ones, untrained in battle. Niether Revan nor the Exile(who are niether extremist Sith or Jedi, seeing as the facts say that even being totally DS they still strive to keep the Republic intact and in fighting form) would allow new students to be unlearned in the ways of battle.

 

So if the True Sith are responsible for encouraging the Mandalorians then either way they ****ed themselves. Regardless, you never gave any reasons why Revan wouldn't scheme the two wars the way I posted previously besides "IT sure wasn't Revan".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I absolutely know where you are coming from. I think Sith like to test their powers against the greatest, after the Mandalorian Wars, Jedi Civil War, and the "Shadow War" (Sion and Nihilus) you have created to monstrous force users in Revan and the Exile... now they say "let's have some fun".

 

Plus this new war the "True Sith" will wage on the Republic could go either way. I just wonder what these Sith look like.

[Valdrane]

Well, I have heard many theories. But I have on eof my own, and am too lazy to read all thes eposts. SO here is my theory. Revan did indeed turn to the Darkside during the Mandalorian Wars, during which he came aware of the Star Forge and of the Greater True Sith Empire beyond the outter rim. That was when he adopted the title Sith Lord and created the Sith Army, to further destroy the Republic, so the True Sith could follow him and conquer the Galaxy, and he woudl of course, becoem them and rule.

 

But before this could happen, the Jedi captured Revan with the aid of Darth Malak, reprogrammed him and sent him after the star Forge. When he became aware of what he had done and what the true threat was and after he destroyed Malak. He left, in search of the True Sith, and to undo whatever he had done during his reign as a Dark Lord. It is repentance he is after.

 

Revan never went a bit dark to help the republic, he becamse evil and a Sith Lord to destroy the Republic for the True Sith. After the Mandalorians, the only two things standing in hsi way where the Republic and the Jedi order. which both are in the time of KOTOR II, are pretty much either destroyed (Jedi Order) or so weak, no one could stop a true threat (Republic).

[Darth Nuke]

Well Revan was actually trying to prepare the Republic for war, not destroy it. With his massive fleet, and the Republic under his control he could destroy the true sith once and for all.

 

Of course as we know his plans got ruined by Malak,Bastilia, and the Jedi Council. Mind whiped he couldn't remember what he did, and he ended up destroying everything he needed to destroy the True Sith. Probably for the better, but for the worse as well.