Quality of Life

[Inangelion]

Hello everyone,

 

I'm an aspiring game programmer currently studying in Full Sail.

 

I was curious about what Obsidian menagement was thinking about the current quality of life issues that make many game programmers suffer.

 

Many large game development companies are threating their emloyees very badly nowadays. Many programmers are required to work extra hours and not get paid for it. Certain companies are pointed out specifially (one hint: Starts with an 'E', end with 'A'). I agree that extreme crunch time (80+ hours per week) is indeed a necessity sometimes during the development cycle but I don't think any programmer is happy about not being paid. These companies don't really care about their employees since they are recieving dozens of resumes per week and see them as replaceble.

 

I have always admired Obsidian Entertainment as a company (well, I admired Black Isle before Obsidian) and I would really appreciate if someone inside the company gives some feedback on how Obsidian is dealing with these issues.

 

Thank you for reading this.

 

PS: I don't really know about Obsidian's policies. If answering this question will get you in any kind of trouble, feel free to erase this topic.

[merry andrew]

I agree that extreme crunch time (80+ hours per week) is indeed a necessity sometimes during the development cycle but I don't think any programmer is happy about not being paid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I haven't heard of someone not getting paid. Not everyone gets paid by the hour. If you sign a contract agreeing to receive a certain payment for the fulfillment of that contract, then yeah, no one is going to pay you for 'overtime'.

[Mark Havel]

I think it is quite well know that working conditions in gaming industry are often not as good as it should be. As always, it really depends on the corporation and it's leader. But if the conditions at Obsidian were not good, don't expect Feargus Urquhart answering you and saying something like "yeah, working at Obsidian is like hell, with 100 hours/week and only 35 paid !".

[Feargus Urquhart]

Crunch does occur and will probably continue to occur in the game industry. Most of us signed up knowing we would alway do some crunch time, however the amount that EA asks/requires/demands its employees to put in is excessive. I put quite a bit of crunch time in myself from around May of 1997 until October of 2000. I wouldn't say that I worked straight through during that time, but it was pretty close.

 

We are trying to limit it as much as possible and we don't require employees to put it in. I think I've only ever "required" it on one of my projects at Black Isle and that was for people to work on Saturdays. I've never told or guilted people into working seven days a week. There are a lot of people that will put the time in because they want the game to be great and I guess you could say we take advantage of that.

 

Our latest attempt at Obsidian is to be more strict about monthly milestones, so that we are making hard decisions about the game every month. Yes this means that we cut and change things about the game every month, but it hopefully limits the crunch time for the team and also means we leave ourselves a healthy amount of pure QA time at the end. This doesn't work perfectly and we do allow things to slide over milestones, which we know will really only hurt us in the end, but it's because we want the game to be the best that it can be.

[Lcaus Scuks]

The real devs care more about the game than they care about themselves. These losers complained about the gaming industry and its problems.

[Azarkon]

Considering the amount of people interested in games nowadays, I have a feeling that it's also a matter of supply and demand in the job market. Your local evil corporate conglomerate treats programmers bad because programmers are a dime a dozen since the computer science bubble burst. If joe programmer doesn't like it, he can always leave - there are many programmers out of work and plenty willing to work under even adverse conditions if it means working in a job that they think they'd like. But the rate of disillusionment among programmers in the gaming industry is pretty high too, or so I hear.

[Oerwinde]

When I decided I wanted to get into the gaming industry, I expected crunch time in the last couple months of development, because thats what I was told it was like. When the EA thing broke and it turned out crunch time was the entire development cycle for some games, it nearly made me re-think getting into games, as EA is the largest employer for 3d artists in the Greater Vancouver area. (I believe they currently employ something like 1400 people, probably 40% or more being artists)

[Darth Barth]

I've never told or guilted people into working seven days a week.  There are a lot of people that will put the time in because they want the game to be great and I guess you could say we take advantage of that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh I can actually see this! Like in my head or something!

 

 

FU - Hey Bob, how are the kids?

 

Bob - Uh, they're doing good.

 

FU - Oh thats nice, you're fired.

 

Bob - Uh..

 

FU - Just kidding, Bob.. heh-heh. So, Saturday.

 

Bob - Uh... Saturday?

 

FU - You know Bob, job securtity in todays world... yikes. Oh, not to change the subject but did I ever tell you about my half-brother John Joseph?

 

Bob - ...

 

FU - He was indicted for attempted murder and conspiracy several years ago. The authorities had him pinned as a lieutenant in the Luchese family. It all turned out well in the end, Bob, because the judge and two prosecutors and all the evidence just disappeared one day. Isn't that incredible? It was like a miracle from heaven! He lives in the next area code. We have BBQs at each others house every other week. We're tight like prom night.

 

Bob - Uh, I'll be in Saturday?

 

FU - Whoomp, there he is! Bobert! Ol' Reliable! Thanks Bob, I knew I could count on you!

 

Bob - You're welcome, I think.

[Hunter]

I've never told or guilted people into working seven days a week.  There are a lot of people that will put the time in because they want the game to be great and I guess you could say we take advantage of that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh I can actually see this! Like in my head or something!

 

 

FU - Hey Bob, how are the kids?

 

Bob - Uh, they're doing good.

 

FU - Oh thats nice, you're fired.

 

Bob - Uh..

 

FU - Just kidding, Bob.. heh-heh. So, Saturday.

 

Bob - Uh... Saturday?

 

FU - You know Bob, job securtity in todays world... yikes. Oh, not to change the subject but did I ever tell you about my half-brother John Joseph?

 

Bob - ...

 

FU - He was indicted for attempted murder and conspiracy several years ago. The authorities had him pinned as a lieutenant in the Luchese family. It all turned out well in the end, Bob, because the judge and two prosecutors and all the evidence just disappeared one day. Isn't that incredible? It was like a miracle from heaven! He lives in the next area code. We have BBQs at each others house every other week. We're tight like prom night.

 

Bob - Uh, I'll be in Saturday?

 

FU - Whoomp, there he is! Bobert! Ol' Reliable! Thanks Bob, I knew I could count on you!

 

Bob - You're welcome, I think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

lol

 

I'm just going to jump in real quick as someone who used to work for Feargus (and doesn't currently), that I've never seen him make anyone work seven days a week. In fact I don't ever remember hearing anything more than "we've got to have this demo ready monday, so if anyone can help out this weekend that would be great." There was never any pressure or punishments

[Feargus Urquhart]

Man you guys really have a good deal of fear of management don't you?

[Aegis]

Management? Where?!