Patch coming this year?

[heliotic]

This is why I blame LA for the state of the game in terms of storyline. I also blame OE for the state the game shipped in, so I blame both parties

 

Umm...

 

LA was the one who ORDERED the game to be released, even though they knew of the outstanding numbers of technical issues. The completely failed in their QA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sure, and now Obsidian Entertainment is known as the company that "backed down and shipped an inferior product". How do we know their next product won't reflect the same lack of pride in their craftsmanship?

 

Regardless of who ordered who to ship what, the fact remains that OE developed KOTOR2 and it was bad. now the question has to be asked: "Will NWN2 [1] be bad? What if Atari wants to ship urgently for christmas?"

 

Will OE stand up and say "No it's not ready for shipping, and if you push, the deal is off?" Or will they betray their customers once again and ship an inferior product.

 

OE can certainly argue 'Pushing back will destroy our company.', but I have to say 'Not pushing back will destroy it quicker. Also, OE, if you want some cheap furniture, the remains of Troika are probably still available.'

 

[1] Or any future product by OE.

[heliotic]

It's also worth noting that Atari (NWN2 publishers) are also fans of the "Publish Early Publish Often" mantra of old. How do we know that NWN2 isn't going to suck?

 

We're gamers OE, you don't really need to give us a reason to like the products you make. But you do need to give us a reason not to be immediately suspicious as soon as we hear that you are doing the dev work on them. That's all we ask.

[Haitoku]

This is why I blame LA for the state of the game in terms of storyline. I also blame OE for the state the game shipped in, so I blame both parties

 

Umm...

 

LA was the one who ORDERED the game to be released, even though they knew of the outstanding numbers of technical issues. The completely failed in their QA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sure, and now Obsidian Entertainment is known as the company that "backed down and shipped an inferior product". How do we know their next product won't reflect the same lack of pride in their craftsmanship?

 

Regardless of who ordered who to ship what, the fact remains that OE developed KOTOR2 and it was bad. now the question has to be asked: "Will NWN2 [1] be bad? What if Atari wants to ship urgently for christmas?"

 

Will OE stand up and say "No it's not ready for shipping, and if you push, the deal is off?" Or will they betray their customers once again and ship an inferior product.

 

OE can certainly argue 'Pushing back will destroy our company.', but I have to say 'Not pushing back will destroy it quicker. Also, OE, if you want some cheap furniture, the remains of Troika are probably still available.'

 

[1] Or any future product by OE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Once again... OE gave LA a beta stage product. LA takes a look at it... "Hmmm... Lots of script bugs, installing errors, graphic card issues.... Oh, screw it, lets release it anyways!"

 

LA was responsible for Quality Asurance, this means they were suppose to make sure that the product was stable. They could have sent it back to OE for further testing, however, they choose to spit in all of are faces instead.

[heliotic]

Once again...  OE gave LA a beta stage product.  LA takes a look at it... "Hmmm... Lots of script bugs, installing errors, graphic card issues.... Oh, screw it, lets release it anyways!"

 

LA was responsible for Quality Asurance, this means they were suppose to make sure that the product was stable.  They could have sent it back to OE for further testing, however, they choose to spit in all of are faces instead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're not saying anything we don't already know, however I think you're understating OE's role in the process. I suspect it was more like:

 

LA: Give us what you've got.

OE: It's not ready.

LA: Give it to us anyway.

OE: Uh.. ok.

 

No one blames OE for actually deciding to release the game, instead they get the blame for letting them release it with OE's name stamped all over it.

 

OE should have pushed back and said "no, you can't have it." because when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter if OE collapses because of a publisher dispute or if they collapse because they consistantly bow to publisher pressure and release crappy games. Either way they're dead in the water.

[GhostofAnakin]

No one blames OE for actually deciding to release the game, instead they get the  blame for letting them release it with OE's name stamped all over it.

 

OE should have pushed back and said "no, you can't have it." because when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter if OE collapses because of a publisher dispute or if they collapse because they consistantly bow to publisher pressure and release crappy games. Either way they're dead in the water.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Except for the fact that if they told Lucasarts "no, you can't have it", they would have been in breach of contract, since Lucasarts OWNS the license for anything Star Wars, and thus not only wouldn't get paid (since they broke the contract), but additionally could (and would) be sued by Lucasarts.

 

In contrast, I'm sure even though a few people seem to have a problem with the game, Obsidian has made money off the sales.

 

So think about that, which option makes better business sense? Breach of contract and possible lawsuit, or making money on a game that has sold well? Kind of a no brainer from my point of view.

[WoT]

Actually OE make NO money off game sales. They are contracted to make a game and are payed for that. End of story. LA makes all the money from sales.

[heliotic]

Except for the fact that if they told Lucasarts "no, you can't have it", they would have been in breach of contract, since Lucasarts OWNS the license for anything Star Wars, and thus not only wouldn't get paid (since they broke the contract), but additionally could (and would) be sued by Lucasarts.

 

 

Sure, it's a terrible position to be in. But like I said, whether they go bankrupt in a contract dispute with Lucas Arts, or whether they go bankrupt because gamers are afraid to buy their products, it's all the same.

 

Here is an exercise for the reader: What recently bankrupted gaming company was infamous for blaming publishers for pushing games through to release!

[Archangel]

Actually OE make NO money off game sales.  They are contracted to make a game and are payed for that.  End of story.  LA makes all the money from sales.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that ISN'T true, all the contracts of this kind establish a commission for selling.

[McRell@]

Well, you guys say nothing more than "blame OE" or "blame LA"... I think it doesn't matter now. Look at it from another side: tell me, who would make such a great game (yeah, KotOR 2 is a really good game, even with all its bugs, the plot is very, very good, everything's allright, it's still a good game!) within one year (!). Maybe the bugs will be fixed by the patch we are waiting for (I hope so...). By the way, I think the game is cool, dispite of all unfinished plots, despite of some cuts.

But... that doesn't change the thing, that the game may be even better with all the things finished. I'm happy that the game is good even without them, another developer studio may do nothing but a crap within only one year...

[Guest Dowie100]

What the **** is going on

 

Over a week ago there was "nothing stopping it from being released" (Obsidian Quote, well close to it anyway) and guess what a week later, and its still not out

 

This is an unacceptable situation, I have no faith in Lucasarts at all, greedy bastards, and I will never buy one of their games blindly again

 

Screw Lucasarts, Customer Support, how the **** is this support, the patch is ready to be released, yet they are holding it back, thats complete bull**** and will lose them business in the future and now

 

but not only that they havnt even told us one ****ing thing about the patch, for all we know it only fixes typos in the bloody subtitles

 

The only way this is acceptable, is if this is a content patch, otherwise Lucasarts are a ****ty company holding back this from us. Escecially since they are responsible for the state of the game, as they had less than 1 year to make it, which is not even close to how long you need to make any sort of game!!!!

[JamieKirby]

What the **** is going on

 

Over a week ago there was "nothing stopping it from being released" (Obsidian Quote, well close to it anyway) and guess what a week later, and its still not out

 

This is an unacceptable situation, I have no faith in Lucasarts at all, greedy bastards, and I will never buy one of their games blindly again

 

Screw Lucasarts, Customer Support, how the **** is this support, the patch is ready to be released, yet they are holding it back, thats complete bull**** and will lose them business in the future and now

 

but not only that they havnt even told us one ****ing thing about the patch, for all we know it only fixes typos in the bloody subtitles

 

The only way this is acceptable, is if this is a content patch, otherwise Lucasarts are a ****ty company holding back this from us. Escecially since they are responsible for the state of the game, as they had less than 1 year to make it, which is not even close to how long you need to make any sort of game!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

well, i don't care about this game, its totally boring now.

 

Its been on my shelf gathering dust for like a week after i got my copy, since i finished the LS ending and well, i was put off of ever playing it again, unless they release a patch putting in the cut content and adding new content in. (which i doubt will ever happen)

 

So, I ain't gonna buy anything from Lucasarts ever again. (nothing at all, i ain't even gonna watch the new StarWars movie)

 

I *might* try games made by Obsidian, but i won't promise anything....but if it has any link to Lucasarts, they can go **** themselves.

 

Lucasarts has a single chance to redeem themselves and that is to do what they should have done from the start. (release a content patch and finish the sodding game)

[Xaeryth]

well, i don't care about this game, its totally boring now.

 

Its been on my shelf gathering dust for like a week after i got my copy, since i finished the LS ending and well, i was put off of ever playing it again, unless they release a patch putting in the cut content and adding new content in. (which i doubt will ever happen)

 

So, I ain't gonna buy anything from Lucasarts ever again. (nothing at all, i ain't even gonna watch the new StarWars movie)

 

I *might* try games made by Obsidian, but i won't promise anything....but if it has any link to Lucasarts, they can go **** themselves.

 

Lucasarts has a single chance to redeem themselves and that is to do what they should have done from the start. (release a content patch and finish the sodding game)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I couldn't agree more. I refuse to give any more $$ to George Lucas' substandard products. As for Obsidian, I will NEVER blindly buy their products again. I was a huge fan of KotOR 1 so I blindly bought the sequel. I'm also a huge fan of NwN (have all the addons including the Premium mods) but I will NOT blindly buy NwN2 because I don't trust them to put out the quality product I would've expected. I will wait to find out if it's worth the money first.

 

Of course, all of this can be rectified by both companies by having them fix their existing products to a standard that is expected by their consumers.

[JamieKirby]

well, i don't care about this game, its totally boring now.

 

Its been on my shelf gathering dust for like a week after i got my copy, since i finished the LS ending and well, i was put off of ever playing it again, unless they release a patch putting in the cut content and adding new content in. (which i doubt will ever happen)

 

So, I ain't gonna buy anything from Lucasarts ever again. (nothing at all, i ain't even gonna watch the new StarWars movie)

 

I *might* try games made by Obsidian, but i won't promise anything....but if it has any link to Lucasarts, they can go **** themselves.

 

Lucasarts has a single chance to redeem themselves and that is to do what they should have done from the start. (release a content patch and finish the sodding game)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I couldn't agree more. I refuse to give any more $$ to George Lucas' substandard products. As for Obsidian, I will NEVER blindly buy their products again. I was a huge fan of KotOR 1 so I blindly bought the sequel. I'm also a huge fan of NwN (have all the addons including the Premium mods) but I will NOT blindly buy NwN2 because I don't trust them to put out the quality product I would've expected. I will wait to find out if it's worth the money first.

 

Of course, all of this can be rectified by both companies by having them fix their existing products to a standard that is expected by their consumers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

yeh, but it would be cool, if they could make Kotor III have Co-Op Capability.

 

Each person is part of the group. hehehehe.....now that would rule.

 

but i think they should finish Kotor II before doing any other product.

[swaaye]

It's just an example of how terribly competitive the game industry has become. Companies are determined to get games out at peak buying season, just to stay alive.

 

Go load up Curse of Monkey Island or Full Throttle (or TIE Fighter: check avatar) and tell me that LucasArts has no potential. I mean this company used to be one of the most innovative, forward-looking developers on Earth. But, now they just publish Star Wars games, and they outsource those! It's depressing....very saddening.

 

I guess I really hope Obsidian steps forward with some additions to our beloved KOTOR2 universe. You know these are just people, and they put a lot of long, hard hours into this game. And LucasArts is run by people too, people that probably love games. I'd imagine both wish they could do more for every game they make. Unfortunately, deadlines and development times, and money are becoming harder and harder to make in our industry where people are less and less easily impressed.

[Haitoku]

I mean this company used to be one of the most innovative, forward-looking developers on Earth

 

I remember those good times...

[Drakron]

Go load up Curse of Monkey Island, the Dig or Full Throttle (or TIE Fighter: check avatar) and tell me that LucasArts has no potential.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fixed.

[Antagonist]

Go load up Monkey Island 1/2, the Dig, Zak McKracken, Day of the Tentacle or Full Throttle (or TIE Fighter: check avatar) and tell me that LucasArts has no potential.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fixed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fixed "

[heliotic]

Go load up Curse of Monkey Island or Full Throttle (or TIE Fighter: check avatar) and tell me that LucasArts has no potential. I mean this company used to be one of the most innovative, forward-looking developers on Earth. But, now they just publish Star Wars games, and they outsource those! It's depressing....very saddening.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hell, try Republic Commando, which was released a few weeks ago. Great game, too short though. What does this show?

 

LA has the talent needed to make a good game, however once again, a business decision [ship now] overrode a technical one. [hmm.. it's not long enough.]

[Brickyard]

You know these are just people, and they put a lot of long, hard hours into this game. And LucasArts is run by people too, people that probably love games.

 

These kinds of remarks always surprise me when they get posted when a bad game (at least to those who're upset with it) gets ragged on by users.

 

Whether they're nice people or mean-spirited people is really meaningless. Nice people mess up every day in numerous jobs, as do mean people. Doesn't change the fact that nice people also get let go because they simply can't do the job.

 

The team(s) that planned, developed and tested K2 might be THE first dozens of people on the "nice people with feelings list", but if they can't make a game that pleases their customers, they don't, IMO, deserve praise or slack. And I think most people who are complaining (and continuing to do so) are as much upset with the lack of post-release acknowledgement of the many flaws in the game (be they design in the story, or programming bugs) and the "soon" patch, as they are in feeling they wasted their money purchasing the game.

 

If enough people are upset with K2, the people behind it don't really deserve much praise at all. A poor game developed in a short (too short?) amount of time is still a poor game. It might have great concepts and great potential, but I know I didn't pay $50 for potential, but for a game to enjoy. I haven't gotten that yet, but I don't see anyone at LucasArts or Obsidian offering to buy the game back from me (even at a discount), and the place I purchased the game from doesn't allow returns. So I (along with others, apparantly) am stuck with a game I don't particularly enjoy, as is, and am short a bit of cash. I feel ripped off, to be honest.

 

I hope Obsidian doesn't go the way of Troika, but if NWN2 isn't better, I wouldn't be surprised (or really upset) if they did. Companies that make poor games shouldn't be around, IMO. Of course if the majority of players were mostly happy with K2, my opinion obviously means little, but since most people don't take the time to go to messageboard forums, there's really no way of knowing until after either/both NWN2 and K3 are released to get a good picture of how the masses took to K2.

 

But whether the people at Obsidian and/or LucasArts have feelings really is irrelevant to the quality (or lack-thereof) a game. The end product is all that matters, and I hope that both LA and Obsidian are paying attention to the reactions. I'm pleased to see that LA had a shakeup in it's heirarchy, as from what I hear, Battlegrounds isn't the best game, either. Maybe it is 100% LA's fault that K2 has the problems it does, I don't know (and no one at LA or Obsidian are saying much at all about K2). I also don't care much. I care that I purchased a game I'm unhappy with, and LucasArts AND Obsidian are responsible, in one way or another. I think BG2 is the best game I've ever played, and I love HotU, as well as KOTOR 1, and I don't care if the people behind those titles are 100% royal pricks, they made great games, and I'd like to play more great games, and have no problems whatsoever spending $50 to do so.

[DarthSchlong]

But, now they just publish Star Wars games, and they outsource those! It's depressing....very saddening.

 

 

They did publish Mercenaries.

[Guest Lakmoots]

The team(s) that planned, developed and tested K2 might be THE first dozens of people on the "nice people with feelings list", but if they can't make a game that pleases their customers, they don't, IMO, deserve praise or slack.  And I think most people who are complaining (and continuing to do so) are as much upset with the lack of post-release acknowledgement of the many flaws in the game (be they design in the story, or programming bugs) and the "soon" patch, as they are in feeling they wasted their money purchasing the game.

 

If enough people are upset with K2, the people behind it don't really deserve much praise at all. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Amen... 'nuff said, really.

[DuskDweller]

Go load up Monkey Island 1/2, the Dig, Zak McKracken, Maniac Mansion, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Day of the Tentacle, Sam & Max or Full Throttle (or TIE Fighter: check avatar) and tell me that LucasArts has no potential.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fixed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fixed "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fixed ^^

 

Keep in mind that the peoples involved in those projects doesn't work anymore at Lucasarts.

[Liquid86]

Nice People? NICE PEOPLE?! Listen, a while back, I watched a coworker get fired, despite the fact all of his employee reviews labeled him "One of thie nicest guys we have working for us currently!" Why did he get fired, you ask? HE NEVER, EVER FINISHED HIS WORK: PERIOD!. Be nice in one hand and **** in the other and you tell me which one fills up first dammit! It's been OVER 5 WEEKS since this patch was announced! I've watched Painkiller developer 'People Can Fly'

release THREE (3) patches in this time frame. WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON. You don't like my bitching, tough, you can blow me, I don't care anymore. I can no longer sit here and be "Nice". I am a PISSED OFF CONSUMER! Obsidian, Lucas, Yoda, Whoever, you better read that last line again. PISSED OFF CONSUMER! To quote my favorite comedian Ron White:

 

"How do you sleep at night you ****in' pricks?!"

 

Software companies are DAMN lucky they don't fall under the "Merchantability and Fitness for Use Act". If you guys were roofers, and you built a roof full of holes (much like the Kotor 2 code is) and it took you more than a day to fix it (let alone five weeks) you'd still be serving time ****! Fix your ****ing product!

[STDSkillz]

To quote my favorite comedian Ron White:

 

"How do you sleep at night you ****in' pricks?!"

 

For some odd reason, I believe your favorite comedian is indeed Ron White.

[ken007]

Why I think this whole situation is totally unacceptable:

 

1: There's absolutely no info on the patch... what will it fix? Why is it taking so long(official statements, not unconfirmed rumours)? Have they(LA and Obsidian) even considered making a content patch?

 

2: There's absolutely no feedback from the devs or LA... I feel like they don't even care, they don't see any problems with the game, they've got their money and now they don't give a rats ass about all the unsatisfied gamers out there!

 

3: This is a sequel to a GOTY!!!! How can LA prioritize KotOR 2 so low and give OE one freakin' year to develope a sequel to a game which so many people enjoyed and will remember as one of their all-time best gaming experience?!? And afterwards act like all of us who aren't satisfied with such a rushed product don't even exist! And devs saying we are a minority... wtf were they thinking saying that!! And didn't they knew that they were going to get a bad reputation because of this?

 

Well I for one, and I've noticed that many feel this way, won't buy NWN2 based solely on reviews, as you clearly can't trust them(Why hasn't any reviewers mentioned the obviously rushed last fifth of the game?!) !! I will wait and see the reactions from the forum community before I go buy OEs next product!