global_74 Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 I was utterly ridiculed by the syncophants on this site when I expressed my displeasure over KOTOR II. I was called all kinds of names for expressing my opinion on an incomplete game. http://www.theforce.net/jedicouncil/editorials/030405.asp now (as I predicted) Obsidians reputation has been tarnished by the problems/glitches/bugs in KOTOR II. They have gained notoriety for all the wrong reasons. I have since traded in KOTOR II , but I kept KOTOR I. why? because KOTOR I is a superior game with a superior story, gameplay, and ending. I hope that Obsidian can listen and learn from the many mistakes they made and somehow salvage their reputation or they are gonna have mad problems in the future......
global_74 Posted March 18, 2005 Author Posted March 18, 2005 KOTOR2: The Incompletion Controversy By Craig Dixon Upon reaching the later events of KOTOR2, it becomes clearly evident that the game has suffered greatly from its short time in development. It's been uttered on forums around the internet but no major site has been willing to admit it or say it...LucasArts rushed this game onto shelves for holiday sales before it was ready to be released. The latter part of the game is clearly missing cut scenes, certain subplots and many elements of the main plot are left unresolved, gaping plot holes emerge that are never explained, supporting characters of the player character's party completely disappear from the game, never to appear again, with NO explanation as to where they are (evidence of these issues can be found by clicking on the hyperlinks that are provided at the bottom of the page). Bugs have ruined entire files, many gamers have reported constant crashes, having to restart the game entirely, quests that cannot be completed due to bugs, and a generally poor frame rate. The final cut scene, what some people have called a "cliff hanger" is lacking in even the slightest bit of resolve to be considered a cliff hanger. Let's take a look at "The Empire Strikes Back", which some people have inaccurately compared the game to. "Empire" was a true cliff hanger, it was an example of masterful story telling, and though it was a cliff hanger even it had some resolve, enough to let you comprehend the story. Luke is rescued from his certain doom and is given a new robotic hand, Leia and Luke look out from aboard a Rebel ship into the galaxy knowing they face more challenges. I won't give away any "spoilers" (if it's possible for this non-ending to have any) but the ending would be comparable to ending "Empire" at the moment when Han is frozen. Complete games, books, movies, or any form of medium that is telling a story simply do not end in such a manner! It's preposterous! In the past few weeks, problems that have arisen as a result of the game's incomplete state have become more and more evident. Numerous audio clips containing lines of cut dialogue have been found within folders on the game discs, events from the games original script that were cut (such as a more fleshed out ending) have also emerged. One of the strongest pieces of evidence to support the accusations of the game's incompletion is a sub-plot involving G0T0 and Bao-Dur's remote droid. A conflict arises between the two in a video sequence that was left in game and yet a resolution is never shown on-screen. According to the development team themselves in a recent interview with RPG Vault "...we had this incredible design for a planet of droids. We actually did the first pass on art and built the character models for the location. But we had to look at the schedule and make a big cut after E3. We cut the entire planet. " Not surprisingly, it was a planet you were to visit late in the game
Kayn Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 There is something that doesn't change at all... Even if I haven't read the Forum for a bit, there is always some one that complain the game, and some one that post that review... Really cut\paste is better than a link to the site?
tmp Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 now (as I predicted) Obsidians reputation has been tarnished by the problems/glitches/bugs in KOTOR II.They have gained notoriety for all the wrong reasons. "This comment reveals just how damaging this deadline that LucasArts gave to Obsidian was to the development of a complete game with a fleshed-out story." "Beyond the purpose of having KOTOR2's story told in its original intended manner, it will send a message to LucasArts that fans feel it is unacceptable to sacrifice the quality of such a potentially fantastic series in order for quicker profit." "We are all aware LucasArts is a business before anything else, but this petition will also send them another message, they will lose fans if they continue their trends of rushing developers and in turn, lose money." ... are you absolutely postitively sure you understood whose reputation got really tarnished, according to the article you quoted? reading comprehension for the win...
global_74 Posted March 18, 2005 Author Posted March 18, 2005 as usual, the syncophants come to the rescue. a predictable response from a non-critical thinker fact 1 Obsidian developed KOTOR II fact 2 Obsidian made some FATAL errors in the game design fact 3 If Obsidian makes KOTOR III, intelligent people wont buy it (this doesnt apply to you) fact 4 you and all the other morons on this site that continue to defend this game will buy ANYTHING that Obsidian puts out. Therefore, your opinion doesnt matter fact 5 The gaming community doesnt tolerate bad games being sold for $50.00 retail. Obsidian is on thin ice and if they slip again even your adoring words wont save the company PEACE
global_74 Posted March 18, 2005 Author Posted March 18, 2005 There is something that doesn't change at all... Even if I haven't read the Forum for a bit, there is always some one that complain the game, and some one that post that review... Really cut\paste is better than a link to the site? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> did you read my first post, or can you read?
Freedom Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 There is something that doesn't change at all... Even if I haven't read the Forum for a bit, there is always some one that complain the game, and some one that post that review... Really cut\paste is better than a link to the site? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> did you read my first post, or can you read? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If he read your first post, I would assume that he can, indeed, read.
Kayn Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 There is something that doesn't change at all... Even if I haven't read the Forum for a bit, there is always some one that complain the game, and some one that post that review... Really cut\paste is better than a link to the site? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> did you read my first post, or can you read? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I had read the first post... And this is why I'm asking why you have posted the same thing twice... Are you think that us cannot follow a link? Really you should put more trust in other...
global_74 Posted March 18, 2005 Author Posted March 18, 2005 Are you think that us cannot follow a link? Really you should put more trust in other...<{POST_SNAPBACK}> your grammar is as lucid as your logic when you hit reply. here's a link for you: http://odl.vwv.at/english/odlres/res8/Grammar/grammar.htm
Gorth Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 We are all dazzled by your brilliance... “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Laozi Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 Not me, I'm bedazzled People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
Rosbjerg Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 to global_74: still there's no reason to be condencending! just makes you look like a total jackass! and then no-one will listen to what you have to say .. So if you want a discussion, great! start treating people with respect or you won't get any .. but if your here to simply post a monolouge and piss people off, then go somewhere else!! Fortune favors the bald.
global_74 Posted March 18, 2005 Author Posted March 18, 2005 We are all dazzled by your brilliance... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> arent you the genius that suggested KOTOR II is BETTER than KOTOR I?
Rosbjerg Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 SenatorPalpaThang anyone? Fortune favors the bald.
Kayn Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 Are you think that us cannot follow a link? Really you should put more trust in other...<{POST_SNAPBACK}> your grammar is as lucid as your logic when you hit reply. here's a link for you: http://odl.vwv.at/english/odlres/res8/Grammar/grammar.htm <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry for the grammar... As other people also know, english isn't my first language... As well, my ignorance doesn't change the fact that you basically double posted... As well, my ignorance doesn't change the fact that you are just complaining as other people... As well, my ignorance doesn't change the fact that the recension you're linked was already posted before... As well, in my ignorance I don't understand what you really want to explain in your post... At least it seem an "Read the review...", but I'm starting to see a "People look at me, I had traded back KotOR II, I'm so big, I'm a really SW Fan..." As a SW Fan, I want to remind you that also KotOR have some discordance with the Expanded Universe... In some ways a bigger error than some gameplay bugs... Thank for the link, I looking forward to improve my English... Have you a similar link for the Japanese as well?
Gorth Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 We are all dazzled by your brilliance... arent you the genius that suggested KOTOR II is BETTER than KOTOR I? Possibly. Although I can't remember having said it. But now that you suggest it, you are right, it is “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Rambutaan Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 to global_74:still there's no reason to be condencending! just makes you look like a total jackass! and then no-one will listen to what you have to say .. So if you want a discussion, great! start treating people with respect or you won't get any .. but if your here to simply post a monolouge and piss people off, then go somewhere else!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here! Here! global, it's not completely Obsidian's fault. They have deadlines to meet and jobs to keep, so they can keep food in their tummies, not to mention their families. True, maybe they could've planned ahead better and perhaps focused on a better ending, but even then they would've still been under the thumb from Lucasarts every step of the way. They had to make sure that KOTOR 2 fitted Lucasarts's vision of what it's meant to be like since if they didn't, the project could've been canned altogether, and then what would've happened to the future of the KOTOR series? We would've had to wait longer for a sequel or perhaps not even *see* a sequel ever again. Look no flames or character attacks okay? Just stick to the facts if you want a proper argument please... And by the way, I agree with most of what was written in that article, but as another poster mentioned, you could clearly see that the article was pointing the blame at Lucasarts's marketing department rather than Obsidian's development team. OE did the best they could with the resources provided. So please don't try to change the story .
Fionavar Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 Indeed - please feel free to discuss the topic at hand and avoid flaming/baiting/unconstructive posting ... makes more work for me - don't ya know FLoSD.OBE The universe is change; your life is what our thoughts make it - Marcus Aurelius (161)
Gorth Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 FLoSD.OBE One of these days, you have to tell what that stands for... “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Rambutaan Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 Indeed - please feel free to discuss the topic at hand and avoid flaming/baiting/unconstructive posting ... makes more work for me - don't ya know FLoSD.OBE <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Heheheh precisely guys. Oh by the way, I notice a lot more moderator activity as of late. Good work you guys :D! *Rambutaan gets pumelled to a pulp from a passing mob for what seems like an obvious suck up*
tmp Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 as usual, the syncophants come to the rescue.a predictable response from a non-critical thinker And a predictable ad personam attack in lack of better argument... because let's face it, you don't have one. The very article you quoted to support your point disagrees with you, quite rightly putting the blame on shoulders of the publisher who enforced ludicrous time frame, i.e. Lucas Arts. Case closed, now run along and maybe come back when you actually find something that supports your point for a change...
Ohma Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 Global_74, after reading your posting history I have to wonder why you came back? I would think that there would be other forums whose members are far less sycophantic, ignorant, and irrationally argressive towards you and your "True" Star Wars Fanaticism as you call it. But what do I know, after all I'm just another blind, stupid, doggishly loyal Obsidian fanboi, deperatly clinging to his copy of a POS game, who's only purpose in life is to insult you on these forums for desparaging the love of his life, Obsidian Entertainment.
dabise Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 Try to remember that this game has been released to several non-english speaking countries and those folks have as much reason to post on these boards and address the developers as we do. From what I've seen on most messageboards, some people who speak english as a 2nd language can write it better than folks who speak english as their native tongue. Yes, ENGLISH. Not American. Americans speak English whether they want to admit it or not So 'come down' on folks on a messageboard for not writing proper english all you want, but try to keep that in mind. And heaven forbid you make a grammatical or spelling error in one of your posts... " However, if that poster indeed does speak English as their primary language.... 'nuff said. Anyhow, on to your topic. Yes the game was rushed at the end and it was very apparent, but it wasn't THAT bad of a game. Worth 50 bucks retail? No way. Will it impact the credibility of Obsidian as a company? Well, yeah. State some more obvious facts please. It's just too bad that we can't 'Try before we buy' in the movie and game industry. We get to test drive our vehicles before purchasing them and we get to examine a house before buying one. We can indeed see if our furniture has been finished or not and we can tell if our food we ordered is indeed what we wanted. The entertainment industry is getting away with 'bloody murder' and I really think there should be some type of official organization that polices these things. That many bugs in a game? Send it back and fix it. None of this internal 'working for the company's best interest' beta testing. In a consumer's market the focus should always be on the consumer. An example of people getting fed up is the consumers of the music industry. You can only put a fancy wrapper on crap for so long before people just stop buying it. One good song in a mix and mash of 10-12 'filler songs'. The gaming industry is no different. It is indeed sad that the folks who run the gaming industry are the same 'I need profits now' folks who ruined all the other entertainment industries. Before games were made by gamers and now it is games who are made by gamers who are told what to do by corporate suits who have no conception of what they are invested in. It doesn't matter to them as long as costs are less than revenue. I miss the good ol' days of demos and REAL reviews in magazines. 9.3 for an unfinished and buggy game? How much did they pay/threaten you? lol. Oh well. Live and learn. They are working on NWN2 right now and since Bioware is in on it I guess I'll be getting another Obsidian Entertainment product in the future. Because of their buddies at bioware are they getting a 2nd chance with me. Well, KOTOR2 was pretty good regardless of the bugs. I suppose they have gotten a 2nd chance with me anyhow. A reluctant 2nd chance hehe.
Darth Brooks Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 FLoSD.OBE One of these days, you have to tell what that stands for... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> [off-topic, delete at will] (F)ionavar, (L)ord (o)f the (S)ith (D)onkeys. (O)bsidian (B)oard (E)mperor :D [/off-topic]
tmp Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 So 'come down' on folks on a messageboard for not writing proper english all you want, but try to keep that in mind. And heaven forbid you make a grammatical or spelling error in one of your posts... " He already did; unless "syncophant" is an ass-kisser with great love for ragtime... "
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