FULL DISCLOSURE: Past, Present, and Future

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

I am new to the Obsidian site, but I am not new to Star Wars or forum crawling. I just make a habit of only saying what I truely think should be said (which also gets me in trouble with some people, but what the hay).

 

Until now, I have been posting a series of...thesis, if you will, on the GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum. These thesis have covered an enormous range of topics. From force bonds, to Revan's plannings, to Kreia, to why Carth wasn't killed by his General pal.

 

Due to popular demand from many well spoken individuals at the forum I originally posted these thesis in, I have decided to copy all that information to this forum as well.

 

Comments such as, "The developers really should read this", "Why aren't you wrtiting the the plot for these game", and "I love your writing style so much. You must have writen a Star Wars book or something" were particularly helpful in allowing me to get over my shyness of possibly double guessing the fine people who made this game (I do not count Lucas Arts in this category because of their pushing for early release dates and the cancelling of the new Full Throttle and Sam & Max games. DAMN YOU LUCAS!)

 

With that said, I will copy the thread that was started in GameFAQs to this forum. I will include all posts that are relevent. That includes complements because I think intelligence and gratitude should be spread through out the world, and this is my own personal way of thanking the ones who supported and encouraged me.

 

I will not be posting the tidings of Forum Trolls or my less than kind responses to said trolls. Because it is not relevent or pleasant to read.

 

This thread will be updated periodically after I finish the transfering as well. Because I am not finished with this topic by a long shot.

 

And now, I will begin sharing my insights and thoughts on the Staw Wars KOTOR universe.

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Present: The Exile (and Nihilus I believe) is marked as being the most exceptional in innate force bond creation. It is his gift, but it is also his durse. During the Mandalorian Wars, he formed so many force bonds, with so many people involved in the battles, that when so many of them died in a single instant, the feedback from all those bonds caused so much mental and spiritual damage that he was left with two choices, choices he could not conscously choose from.

 

1: Feel the entirety of the emptyness that would flow through him as everyone he was close to died in a single instant, thus creating an insane, walking, severed force bond. Zaz Kai-Ill said that when a force bond is severed, you eternally feel a hollow echo. Those words can also be used to describe Darth Nihilus. If you embrace such an echo inside yourself, you become a monster of instinctual kinowledge about breaking force bonds, capable of feeding on that energy caused by it's severing. But in doing so you sever yourself from the force as well, meaning you can no longer draw on it any other way. Not being able to draw on the force, but still using the force to, oh say, keep a dilapidated ship flying in space would force you to seek new force energy. You would become a Force Predator.

 

2: The feedback from the loss of so many would be so mentally scarring that you would have to protect yourself from it. The mind has a way to block out painful memories. Therefor the soul has a method as well. His own soul (I use SOUL instead of Mediclorians because Lucas is a f-ing idiot and that explains nothing about the lingering effects of shades, ghosts, and tainted locations used in the original trilogy) would sever his ties with the force. As a defensive measure, it would protect him from the mental fallout of all those severed bonds. Sure, the act of force seperation would be painful, but in a long, lasting, copable way. Not the sort of pain that floods your entire being in a single moment. That is what the Exile is at the beginning of the game.

 

Next: Present Light/Dark

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Exile Present:

For almost a decade the Exile has wandered the Outer Rim, because he was trying to not only stay out of the way of war, out of the eyes of the Jedi and the Sith, but to also try and outrun his memories of the war. And the empty feeling of his lost connection to the Force.

 

Kreia Past: Kreia taught Reven, just as she taught Nihilus and Sion. But Kreia taugh Reven and Nihilus about Force Bonds in addition to other Jedi and Sith Lores. We know Reven studied Force Bonds because of the Light Path chats we had with the Masters. And Sion actually said, "I do not hear your voice in my head anymore" which mean that Kreia and Sion once held a power force bond, stronger than the one in KotoR 1 between Reven and Bastila, because it flowed feelings, but not thoughts. This prooves that Kreia is a master of FORCE BONDS. And that Reven knew of the power such bonds held when he went into the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Kreia Present:

The Force attack that Nihilus used in the cut scene titled Kreia's Fall was a technique of severing one's connection to the force. That is why Kreia, who was not MORTALLY wounded was unable to summon her lightsaber to her hand (when a mortally wounded rookie like Luke was able to do it upside down!). That is how she knows what the loss of the Force feels like when the Exile describes it to the Handmaiden on Telos. That is why Kreia was seeking out a non-sith, non-jedi force sensative. She was searching for someone to create a new force bond with so that she could-

 

A: Gain access to the force once again, through them and their force bond, like a leech.

 

B: Train a champion to avenge her downfall at the hands of Nihilus.

 

And it just so happens that the Force brought to into contact with another that is adept at Force Bonds, and has been severed from the force. The resulting mental contact between them, while they were both at the door of death, reaching for something to hold onto as their life failed them, resulted in a Force Bond stronger than either of them anticipated. Or wanted.

 

Next: ACTUAL remiffications of the Present Light/Dark paths.

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Exile Present - Light Path:

After being shut away from the force and other people for so long, not allowing yourself to be attached to anything, like a dead planet wandering along no preset course, the sudden Force Bond and the awakening of Force Powers make no sense. That is because the Exile puposely avoided making bonds for a decade. It wasn't until he began to open his soul to force bonds again that he opened himself to the force. The force flows through connections between living things. When he formed the connection with Kreia, be joined the interwoven threads of life once again, but just a little. Thats why the Exile continued to be a wussy until after you got off Peragus.

 

PERAGUS! NOT PEGASUS YOU BRAIN DEAD MONKIES!

 

The act of aiding others is the act of bonding. Kindness breeds kindness and creates empathy. Empathy breeds friendship/kinship/connections. By being helpful and nice guy, you are slowly making more connections to the Force. While you do this, Kreia, the un-empathetic bag continues to leech off you. Which explains why she is not more powerful than you until she does to a location where she can draw upon familiar powers of the force (be it the Academy on Dantooine where she trained Jedi, or on Malachor where she trained Sith). But no matter how far you go in reconnecting yourself to the force, the scar upon your soul of all those force bonds severed at Malachor still leave you as a walking Hollow/Echo/Wound in the force, as a pseudo walking Broken Force Bond (close to what Nihilus is). That is why when Nihilus tries to feed off you, he finds nothing, because you do not have enough connections to the force to really be in the "internet" of life forces and he cannot find a direct connection to you. That is why his power backfires and harms him, leaving him weak enough to kill.

 

As for your gaining power...

 

The Jedi Masters say you are a "leech" that siphons power from your comrads. They are wrong, because they have never observed anyone struggling to reintroduce themselves to the force after being severed from it. The reason you are powerful in the force is because of three things.

 

1. You were born powerful. Therefore strength in the force is not unknown to you, especially since you were a general and no wussy would be a general among the Jedi. Know what I mean?

 

2. The Force itself is propelling you towards your destiny. I'm sure we can all agree that that kind of backing will make anyone stronger then they were before.

 

3. You are surrounded by others that are strong in the force with a similar Force Propelled Destiny. When you are standing in a pool, you cannot help but get a lot of water on you.

 

Those conditions granted the strength of power that allowed the Exile to be a force to be reconed with, while simultaneously be removed enough to not be consumed by Nihilus. But in time, by forming connections with life (as the Ithorian on Telos puts it) you will be completely heal and reintroduced to the force.

 

And the reason Kreia lost it at the Enclaive is because the force bond had endeared the Exile to her so much that she could not stand seeing him/her be severed YET AGAIN. That, and because the Exile was her tool of vengence.

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Exile Present - Dark Path:

At the opening your situation is very similar to thet of the light path, so refer to the first paragraph of the previous post for details. The reopening of yourself to force bonds and the force is basically the same until you leave Peragus.

 

After leaving Peragus though, your persective begins to change in regards to the force. You become a leech. You form force bonds simply to feel the flows of the force as it flows through others. You draw it off of them, and in return you share your predatory corruption with them, turning them to the dark side of the force. They become a source of constant nutrition to you. Ironically, your abusing their bond is what saves you.

 

Nihius had long ago severed his EVERY connection to the force, so that when he severs the connection a life has to the 'internet of life' he simultaneously borns a bond with IT. Then the life force has nowhere to travel, but INTO HIM. Figuratively speaking, it is like seperating a glass of water into individual droplets, and then sucking them up with a straw. Yeah, JUST like that really. Nihilus didn't have any force bonds because then the sheer massive amount of force energy he would suck up at once would be redistributed into the 'internet of life' all over again. Nihilus made himself into a Force Resevoir with no inlet or outlet. But eventually all the water in that resevoir will evaporate.

 

The Exile though, discovered how to sever force bond and then feed on the life force of those he killed as evidenced by the increase in power gained by killing the Jedi Masters, by consuming their life energy. The Exile further learned how to retain the excess energy he recieved simply by using the sudden influx of it to 'upgrade' his force channeling abilities. He learned the ultimate technique without falling to it's inherent weaknesses.

 

When the Exile confronts Nihilus on his ship, and Nihilus attempts to consume the Exile, the inherent predatory natures of each of their souls cancelled out the attempt (but since Nihilus initiate the attack he received a back lash of his own power). If Nihilus wasn't running on empty at the time he probably could have forced a draining on you.

 

As for how Kreia overpowered you at Dantooine, see the previous post.

 

When people say that you, the Exile, are the potential end of the Force, they are correct. Potentially you can become like Nihilus, who IS the inevitable ending of the force. But since you retain your mind and force connections, you are not. But you are still an evil Sith with access to the most DEVASTATING power in all the galaxy.

 

NOTE: Perhaps the reason Nihilus was unable to consume you as Light AND Dark is because your soul was still refusing all but the most carefully chosen of force bonds. It's a possibility.

 

Next Time: Force Bonds of the Past - Reven's Plot For Recruitment

[Laozi]

Your 5 post are way too long

[Aegis]

I read until I got to Kreia's past, and a little of her present. You're making some very odd assumptions and generalizations with evidence that is questionable at best.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I'll read it later, but it's been one of those days..

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

FYI: This post has no information in it. It is simply a thank you to all the people who encouraged me to continue my work back at the GameFAQs boards.

 

At this point I started to get harrassed by some Trolls. They called me a pathetic fanboy with too much time on my hands. I then started to try and defend my actions against words like these. After I did so for about a day, I started to get depressed at the lack of appreciation I was recieveing for my attempts to share my inquiries into the KOTOR universe.

 

Thats when these fine people helped me out.

 

Originally posted by Silver Wolf 9000 on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Well I thought this was an interesting read...

 

Originally posted by ShadowDevil on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

If you don't like his topic then just don't click on them. Personally, I found it an interesting read.

 

 

Originally posted by Roin on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Kunai don't worry about what those other 2 guys said. I found the thread interesting.

 

Originally posted by F1_2004 (gs) on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

You don't wanna read, you don't click. I don't think it's too hard to understand, do you?

 

Anyways, good read, although quite a bit of that stuff is speculation on your part.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Andalor on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

interesting read indeed!

 

Now up with the revan part. you wasted enough time allready with other things.

 

 

Originally posted by BewareTheDrow on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Well look at that, MasterYevon has (gs) next to his name, well isn't that ironic?

 

 

I enjoyed the topic, it makes a lot of sense and the analysis is interesting. Kudos.

 

 

Originally posted by avertingangel on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

The gs thing is getting annoying. Like why do you even come to gamefaqs.. You got your own bloody &*(# gamespot forum.

 

 

Originally posted by stormsct (gs) on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

This is a very interesting read and very nicely put. Where's the rest Kunai?

 

 

 

Originally posted by Verghez on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Great read.... it's people like you that are missing from message board these days... that's why he found it weird....

 

This interesting thought-provoking posts has been missing for sometime now, especially on gamefaqs...

 

This is what forums are for, to form your opinion based on your understanding and discuss about it, not just always discussing on how to play the game, etc.

 

Once again, go for it:D Don't let others down you, although he is allowed to have his opinion... It's just probably a lack of these posts such days that cause such a big hoo-hah;)

 

 

Originally posted by Zhaozilong on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Its quite interesting i have to say...please continue to write....don't even realised so many things till i read it...ehhh and i really wanna say this...it doesn't really matter whether the person is from gamespot of gamefaqs...this is a forum...and anyone has the right to post in it...no matter where you are from...and since gamefaqs and gamespot has "merge" we shouldn't stereotype...ok...say whatever you guys want...bye and have a good day... (abit crazy when writing this.../.\)

 

 

Originally posted by SamuraiZombie on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

You know, I was disappointed that the topic of Force Bonds wasn't expanded on during the game. Certain things about some of the characters made me think there would be more explicit connections. For instance, the Exile and Nihilus are both described as "a wound in the Force" or "a hollow shell". So I kind of expected Nihilus and the Exile to be sort of the same person - like Nihilus is a ghost, a dark mirror to the Exile, born from the spiritual division that came from Malachor V, the walking personification of the Exile's pain. The resemblance between Kreia and Visas was also very striking, and I expected some revelation connecting them somehow; like Visas is Kreia's "daughter" (not physically but spiritually) or something.

 

 

Originally posted by Qezioz The Great on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

wow this analysis is more than the netire game!! please continue i've bookmarked the page! :D

 

 

Originally posted by Mukish on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

well, I liked it....

 

Originally posted by grammertime on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

<3

Very good theories. I like it.

 

Originally posted by evenflow80 on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

I really appreciate this topic and others like it, it clears up what is IMO a poorly told but potentially great story.

 

Originally posted by Roin on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Once again I must say that is a very interesting read Kunai. Though I've never read a StarWars novel. I'd swear you have written one before. Keep up the excellent work.

 

Originally posted by call of duty on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

must...not...read...haven't...finished...game...yet....arghhhh

 

great read, but you should've posted where the SP's are. i have my KOTOR story ruined by some malicious friends (ok ok i was eavesdropping them, but they were talking too loud anyways) and as it turns out, it's probably one of the best gaming plot twists in history. so i don't want it ruined again in KOTOR 2.

 

Originally posted by Fyrewind on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Awesome analisys there. Only thing is the Kreia bit which was already mentioned. You really knit the games together, giving them linear cohesion and making KOTOR2 an actual sequel, not just a follow-up. Now, I only have one question...: WHY AREN'T YOU WRITING FOR LA/Obisidian/Whoever's making KOTOR3?

 

Originally posted by cey_daniels on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Very, very good read indeed.

 

Also agreed with Fyrewind. Definitely post this somewhere else where the developers can see.

 

Great writing and theory.

 

Originally posted by Roin on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Can't wait for you to continue this thread, Kunai. Hope you got that school work done.

 

 

 

To all the people who showed me such an outpouring of support and encouragement, I say thank you once again. There is no way for me to thank the people enough who have helped me to continue on with this project. The only reason I was even capable of writing another word in that thread was because, after so many days of avoiding the thread in a sense of dread, you fine people gave me the will to continue on. Even now, when I read what you originally posted, my eyes get moist and my heart becomes full. Thank you so much.

[Aegis]

Ye gods. You post reviews of your own post?

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

After I recieved the encouragement of fine people at GameFAQs, I proceeded to belt out some more thesis. This one was next.

 

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Force Bonds of the Past - Reven's Plot For Recruitment

 

At this point we have already learned that Reven had studied the subject of force bonds previous to his involvement in the Mandalorian Wars. We also know, from the movies in the original KotoR that Reven and Malik pursued the knowledge of the Star Forge prior to their becoming involved in the Mandalorian Wars. We know this because they had free access to the Star Map location on Dantooine, something they would not have if they were wanted for punishment by the councils for their defiance of the Pacifism Decision the Order decided upon.

 

I also just want to say, for the record, I feel the right decision for the Jedi was to go to war with the Mandalorians, and because the Masters did not, Reven was able to take up the role of leadership and manipulate things to his own will. The fault lies in the Masters, for not making sure that their wayward students stayed on the path of the Light while at war. That said, I return to the discussion.

 

Knowledge of such an obscure Sith(ish) Relic like the Star Forge would indicate that Reven had accumulated a good knowledge of Sith lore. ALong with the knowledge of the Star Forge, Reven learned the location of another Sith relic. The Traya Academy on Malachor V. According to what has been revealed, the entire war was orchistrated as a prelude to the Jedi Civil War. It had been Reven's intent all along to turn the military he established controll over against the Republic. That is how Reven's knowledge of Malichor V and Force Bonds come into play.

 

I think it would be an understatement to say that strong bonds form between people when they fight side by side during a war. The term 'War Buddies' carries a great deal of weight, simply because that implied a connection that cannot be forged in any way other than the act of watching over each other's lives. Very powerful indeed. Now, imagine that every 'War Buddy' in a fleet of space ships, no, MULTIPLE fleets of space ships, including ground ocupation forces and hundreds fighter squadron pilots was a force bond? Not powerful force bonds, but bonds none the less. By the end of a three to four year war of desperation and attrition, there would be a network of force bonds that encompassing the entirety of the multi-armada military force.

 

I can also say, with certainty that Reven has a gift for foce bonds as well. Maybe not a strong one, but he has the ability to forge them. The bond that was formed between him and Bastila is proof of this. Even "Mostly Dead" Reven was able to make a bond that carried the potential to be exploited in the future. Depending on what path you chose, it either did get exploited or it was utilized for a more noble purpose.

 

NOW I will speak about the Traya Academy. In my mind, it was not an academy at it's creation. It was a focus. If you look at the archetecture of the central hub of the academy you will notice the circular shape of the platform. The ring within a ring layout of rising platforms. The arches all pointing at the very center of the platforms. It obiously has some sort of function other than looking pretty. At the very least it is of ceremonial importance. My theory is that the structure collects dark force energies from the universe and allows them to permeate the world in a way that is even more powerful and infectious than the dark energies of Korriban. Korriban is location for a graveyard. Malachor is a location for a fucus/amplifier of dark energies. That is why Reven would send captured Jedi to Malachor to be turned (as insinuated by Kreia). What better place to infect someone with evil than in a place that amplifies it's dark power?

 

Ending portion in a few minutes.

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

AND NOW, Reven's plan.

 

Reven used the violence, strong emotions, bonding of war buddies, and survival instincts that were created by the war to make a web of Force Bonds that stretched the entire length of the Republic's military might. He created a series of wins and losses, some losses on purpose I suspect, in order for the final battle, the most violent and decicive battle, to happen at Malachor V. When the fleet had been collected, when it seemed that if the Weapon of Last Resort was needed, THAT was when the fleet fell to the dark side. Malachor V is a focus/amplifier of the Dark Side. When so many people died in an instant within it's gravitational field, it collected and rebounded that death energy, like sound coming from a struck gong.

 

BAAAAAAAAAAAAANG!

 

Everyone within "hearing" range got struck with that energy. It flowed into and through everyone that was there. It flowed into them and passed along through their force bonds with each other. An entire network of force bonds radiated dark energies in the flow of a minute. Those who felt that flow were infected with the dark side, especially the Jedi. Of the regular people who did not become 'infected' by the dark side, almost all of them were horrified or completely dissilusioned by what had happened. They lost their will to fight because of the spiritual scars suffered at the moment that 'Gong' resounded. That is why the Exile, Bao-Dur, Brianna the Handmaiden's father and others lost the will to fight and began looking for ways to come to terms with the horror they had seen AND felt that day.

 

At that moment, almost every member of the anti-Mandalorian military group either became his dark subjects, or became pacifists. Truely a win-win situation.

 

That is how Reven used Force Bonds to make an armada.

[Blarghagh]

First, I'd like to say that your name confuses me because I don't remember ever seeing kunai with chains. I've seen ringed, handled and double-bladed, but never with chains.

 

Second, your posts rock, you make some interesting points that make me appreciate Nihilus a little more.

 

Third:

 

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

PERAGUS! NOT PEGASUS YOU BRAIN DEAD MONKIES!

 

Can I use this quote?

[Malagance]

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

PERAGUS! NOT PEGASUS YOU BRAIN DEAD MONKIES!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Can I use this quote?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was going to ask the same thing.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

First, I'd like to say that your name confuses me because I don't remember ever seeing kunai with chains. I've seen ringed, handled and double-bladed, but never with chains.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's a Yu Gi Oh game card. Dont know if thats where the name came from though.

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

Oh yeah! Feel free to use it as a quote. And as for my name...Thats an interesting little story.

 

I play City of Heroes. I love that game. I also love Anime, especially Naruto. And because I value intelligence, I love Batman. So, when I had to think up a superhero, I immediately wanted to be different from everyone else and be a Batman type of character. Someone who trained hard to become a superhero. Then I thought of Ninjas. I then said, "Sweet! I can be a ninja!" (as it turns out though, 7000 other people had the same thought. A ninja with a machine gun. *sigh*)

 

Then I had to think up a name. I immediately ran through some possabilities, then I remembered Naruto and the newer Shinobi. The weapon they used. The Kunai. And it was perfect.

 

Then I started listening to a new internet radio station that was made for the purpose of entertaining people on MMOs. MMO Radio (www.mmoradio.com). I started to attend their in-game parties. Thats when I met one of their DJs, named Sushi-X. A man who is addicted to anime, including Yu-Gi-Oh!. When he say my name during a 'shout out' session of thanking the people present, he called me "Kunai, without the chain". And so it became a sort of 'in-joke' between him and I. I even changed my character name in CoH to "Kunai W O Chain" because I knew he would get a laugh out of it.

 

So, I decided to embrace the name as a perpetual 'in-joke'. But it was really a radio personality, gamer, anime/manga addict that gave it to me.

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

Originally posted by Reaven MK on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Excellent! You are now explaining many things I did not understand, thank you :D

 

Just a correction: It is RevAn not RevEn, and the Star Forge is not a Sith relic, it is a Rakatan relic. It is filled with Dark Side energy, but that is because the Rakatan people of the past were harsh, agressive and evil by nature, there's nothing to do with the Sith.

 

And by the way, did Carth not fought in Malachor V then, or what happened with the non-force sensitives at that battle? Because I never really understood how Revan was able to stealthly separate his new 'evil' crew, from the 'good' one, and attacked them.

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

YES! Smart smart man! You hit one of the point I had forgotten originally! A point I had been intending to make in my next GInormous post. But since I have been excessively sick and busy recently I had not the opportunity to do so. In order to clear this up (which was left vague due to my own oversight)...

 

The Sith Teachings:

Kreia was not only an expert on force bonds, but also of Sith Lore. We know this because Kria says that she was once just like Atris the Ice Queen. Studying the forbidden and slowly allowing herself to rot on the inside. Those teachings were passed onto Revan as well (got it right that time! I just fell into the phonetic spelling ). This is really the only place Revan could come by a full compilation of Sith Teachings. Enough to start in such an efficient manner as Korriban, cause it is pretty obvious at how punishing the environment is that no structure left there for hundreds/thousands of years would survive unless it was powerful in the force, because after only 5 years the inside and outside of the school was decimated. And they did not plunder the tombs until AFTER they arrived. But Revan had the teachings BEFORE the Mandalorian war ended. Atton literally says, (not word for word) "During the war the Sith teachings were spreading through the ranks".

 

Evidence that Revan was gathering a power base inside the armed forces all the time. Well, further evidence of course. And in all plots of conversion, some people of course would not switch sides. You remember when I said that Revan almost certainly lost some battles on purpose in order for everyone to gather at Malachor V? And the Jedi that got caught in the Malachor V Grav Weapon area of effect? Guess who a good tactician would sacrifice? The ones he would not be ablt to use in the future. And in a military chain of command, the commanding officers have the unswerving allegiance of their troops because of the conditioning they have. Corrupt the COs and they in turn corrupt their underlings. A trickle down effect that ACTUALLY works (stupid Bush). Another thing of note is that when a military unit suffers casualties, they will often transfer troops from one unit to another to balance out the Veteran/Rookie ratio. Or retire a unit altogether if it is too badly shattered. We can assume that Carth was silently handed a transfer order once the conflict ended and just before the fleet vanished behind Revans robe trails. Most likely by Admiral whatsisface because he didn't want to see Carth die from a blaster bolt to the back of the head just yet. Or maybe he wanted him to suffer from his betrayal...? But that would easily explain Carth.

 

As for the non-force sensatives? Like I said before. A network of bonds with fellow soldiers. These bonds are not as strong as Jedi ones, but they would exist. That coupled with Sith teachings and the fact that celebrating the death of EVERY slain Mandalorian (attested to by Bao-Dur) would easily make soldiers battle hungry and unquestionably loyal to those who bring them bloody victory.

 

So too review:

1. Sith Teachings obtained from Kreia

2. Sith teaching passed through the chain of command

3. Uncorruptable Jedi and commanding officers lost in the worse battle and suicide missions (minefield flashback in the Korriban Cave?)

4. Hatred and bloodlust encouraged by commanding officers and peers

5. Sudden, palpable loss of life brings either dread of war and self loathing or exhileration and love of conquest to those who felt it

6. Many many military loopholes for Carth to squeeze through

 

When I feel well enough to type at a computer without experiencing sharp muscle pains and a numbing headach I will finish things up quickly with my take of the future. Thanks in a great part by the Obsidian True Ending board.

[The Great Phantom]

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

 

The Jedi Masters say you are a "leech" that siphons power from your comrads. They are wrong, because they have never observed anyone struggling to reintroduce themselves to the force after being severed from it. The reason you are powerful in the force is because of three things.

 

1. You were born powerful. Therefore strength in the force is not unknown to you, especially since you were a general and no wussy would be a general among the Jedi. Know what I mean?

 

2. The Force itself is propelling you towards your destiny. I'm sure we can all agree that that kind of backing will make anyone stronger then they were before.

 

3. You are surrounded by others that are strong in the force with a similar Force Propelled Destiny. When you are standing in a pool, you cannot help but get a lot of water on you.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not sure what you meant, but from what I understood, your not entirely true. The Exile was NEVER strong in the Force. He is like the Assassins. The stronger those around him, the stronger he becomes... That said, he seems like a form of physical Battle Meditation manifestation. Battle Meditation strengthens those around the user (if they so choose), or can sap their strenght, or, in extreme cases like Nomi Sunrider (and later Bastila??? It's possible.) confuse your enemies into attacking eachother.

 

The Exile does this, but is strenghtened when those around him are also strong... It's like the paradox: "To have strength, one must have an army, but to have an army, one must be strong."

 

Just pointing this out. Sorry for breaking your most interesting chain of explanations. If you never want me to speak up and point out an error, let me know. :ph34r:

[The Great Phantom]

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

YES! Smart smart man! You hit one of the point I had forgotten originally! A point I had been intending to make in my next GInormous post. But since I have been excessively sick and busy recently I had not the opportunity to do so. In order to clear this up (which was left vague due to my own oversight)...

 

The Sith Teachings:

Kreia was not only an expert on force bonds, but also of Sith Lore. We know this because Kria says that she was once just like Atris the Ice Queen. Studying the forbidden and slowly allowing herself to rot on the inside. Those teachings were passed onto Revan as well (got it right that time! I just fell into the phonetic spelling ). This is really the only place Revan could come by a full compilation of Sith Teachings. Enough to start in such an efficient manner as Korriban, cause it is pretty obvious at how punishing the environment is that no structure left there for hundreds/thousands of years would survive unless it was powerful in the force, because after only 5 years the inside and outside of the school was decimated. And they did not plunder the tombs until AFTER they arrived. But Revan had the teachings BEFORE the Mandalorian war ended. Atton literally says, (not word for word) "During the war the Sith teachings were spreading through the ranks".

 

Evidence that Revan was gathering a power base inside the armed forces all the time. Well, further evidence of course. And in all plots of conversion, some people of course would not switch sides. You remember when I said that Revan almost certainly lost some battles on purpose in order for everyone to gather at Malachor V? And the Jedi that got caught in the Malachor V Grav Weapon area of effect? Guess who a good tactician would sacrifice? The ones he would not be ablt to use in the future. And in a military chain of command, the commanding officers have the unswerving allegiance of their troops because of the conditioning they have. Corrupt the COs and they in turn corrupt their underlings. A trickle down effect that ACTUALLY works (stupid Bush). Another thing of note is that when a military unit suffers casualties, they will often transfer troops from one unit to another to balance out the Veteran/Rookie ratio. Or retire a unit altogether if it is too badly shattered. We can assume that Carth was silently handed a transfer order once the conflict ended and just before the fleet vanished behind Revans robe trails. Most likely by Admiral whatsisface because he didn't want to see Carth die from a blaster bolt to the back of the head just yet. Or maybe he wanted him to suffer from his betrayal...? But that would easily explain Carth.

 

 

 

So too review:

1. Sith Teachings obtained from Kreia

2. Sith teaching passed through the chain of command

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Found another error. Kreia wasn't YET a 'master' of Sith teachings, and then she was, and then she went twisted and self-destructive, so...

 

Revan went to Kreia for knowledge about how to best leave the Order, and she helped him along, perhaps with a Sith Map or somesuch... Then Revan went to Malachor V (in my fanfic that I'm working on, found Malachor's holocron ), and learned Sith teachings there. I can find ingame quotes, if you want.

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

Originally posted by Aceron on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

I believe you've misjudged Kreia in your summary.

 

Kreia was, always, a teacher.

When her student surpassed her, she was willing to call it fair.

 

That is, until she met the Exile.

When she saw the Exile she saw the potential to train a student who had a truly limitless potential.

In every previous student, their connection to the force bound them to their own destiny, limiting their potnential.

But, in the moment the Exile rejected the Force to save their life, the Exile freed themself from Destiny, becoming a being of truly limitless potential.

 

The Exile was Kreia's chance to train her ultimate student, a student to surpass those who surpassed her, a student to surpass all who would ever be taught.

And that was all it was ever about to her.

 

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

It may just be because I am drowsy right now but when did I ever suggest she was not into the concept of training the Exile? Can you pull some specific lines so we can discuss this fully?

 

Originally posted by Aceron on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

A: Gain access to the force once again, through them and their force bond, like a leech.

 

B: Train a champion to avenge her downfall at the hands of Nihilus.

 

These two statements in regards to Kreia's motives in seeking a new student.

 

a) is false because by then she believed that having the force was as much a restriction then a tool.

 

b) Is also false because she was never interested in Revenge.

 

 

Originally posted by Fyrewind on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Awesome analisys there. Only thing is the Kreia bit which was already mentioned. You really knit the games together, giving them linear cohesion and making KOTOR2 an actual sequel, not just a follow-up. Now, I only have one question...: WHY AREN'T YOU WRITING FOR LA/Obisidian/Whoever's making KOTOR3?

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

To Great Phantom:

 

You don't have to worry about the narative thread here. I'm recalling things that have happened in the past. What you are asking right now is new to me.

 

But yes, Kreia was, at that time, not a Sith Master. But she was in charge of Sith Holocrons. And the Sith teachings spread through the ranks during the Mandalorian War. That, to me, says that Revan collected the teachings before he went to war. And Malachor? Further out in space than the original front line when the war started. There would be no way for Revan to visit the place before the war started. The Sith teachings, they may not have been a complete set. No, it is most likely they were incomplete, becuause of the Insame Sith Teacher doing that research into Sith ethics inside the tombs, the one who played that little game with you, remember? If they had complete knowledge of the Sith, that would not exist. But incomplete knowledge and teachings will still corrupt people.

 

As far as the Exile's strength.

In the last level, the Exile fights alone. Begnning to end, no contact with other people except a breif lull to kill enemies (most of which act like syphons of the force, the assassins who become as strong as you are when they are near you). You are not drawing strength. If anything you would be loosing it if you had not:

 

A. Light Side - Reconnected yourself enough to the force to have a supply of it run through you directly.

 

B. Dark Side - You built up such a resevoir of power from the killing of the Jedi Masters to allow you to survive the trial and then reunite with your allies.

 

At least thats my take on it.

 

Hey, I could be one of those Star Trek Technobable guys I'm so good at this!

[Drakron]

Try to post that in GameFAQs Star Wars forum and you be eaten alive.

 

And I would be joing for dinner ...

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

This next post is word for word what I wrote down. It may be a little odd reading it. Basically, I copied Aceron's original post for the first part, and I wrote the second.

 

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Aceron wrote:

A: Gain access to the force once again, through them and their force bond, like a leech.

 

B: Train a champion to avenge her downfall at the hands of Nihilus.

 

These two statements in regards to Kreia's motives in seeking a new student.

 

a) is false because by then she believed that having the force was as much a restriction then a tool.

 

b) Is also false because she was never interested in Revenge.

 

And I write:

I want to make sure I do justice to this. What was written above it the product of an intelligent, questioning, creative mind. I love meeting people that possess on of those because they are so rare.

 

Part A:

Even though Kreia believes, no, KNOWS that possesion of the force is a weakness, a reliance, she would still want access to it. After all, if you felt the warm heartbeat of the universe (or conversely the surging power of all creation, able to be bent to your will) wouldn't you do just about anything to get it back? I believe that regaining full access to the force and eventually making her return to her status as a full Sith Master was a part of her plan from the beginning. But that includes her eventual dethronement as the Sith Master. But that comes in part two.

 

Regaining mastery of the Force is a major goal for her. We KNOW that her ability to use the force was damaged severely (probably not removed alltogether like I previously wrote, but majorly stunted). She was able to evade assassins by using the technique she used against Sion on the Harbinger and the Jedi Masters along the course of the plot. But that was all she was able to do. Hide. She is one proud prude. She would want to come out of hiding triumphant, and that means gaining full access to the force once again. Hence finding a promasing individual to attach herself to. Preferably one that draws chaos to him/her. "Through conflict we grow strong". Having a force bond and lots of "exercise" would eventually bring back her old abilities. The final strokes to her ressurection is either A:Consuming 3 Jedi Masters at Dantooine, or B: leeching the power of the Jedi Masters off the Exile when s/he consumes them. Even though reliance on a tool is weakness, as she admited, she would also be the first to say that it is a reliance any Jedi would be glad to have. At least IMHO she would.

 

I still believe that the reason Kreia said it was an addiction is because she likes to mes with people's heads. Saying that right then and there would really mess with my head if I were Atton.

 

Originally posted by Kunai_W_O_Chain on GameFAQs KOTOR 2 PC forum:

 

Part B:

Kreia says that Nihilus really is the death of the universe. Kreia is part of the universe. If she cannot control him, as was shown in the "Cast Down" movie, she would want him eliminated. She never once said, "If at all possible I would have wanted you to avoid fighting him EVER." She was just loath to send you in before you were ready. Sort of like Visas. From the beginning Kreia saw that you had potential. And the empty cavity of your soul from rejecting the Force once was a weapon she saw as being similar to Nihilus, who turned out more powerful than her (but only cause he hit her while she wasn't looking). But I DID mistype when I said she wanted to be avenged. When I have a thesis paper rolling in my head I miss some things

 

Kreia wanted to be surpassed in every way possible by her best student to date. In the Sith "Proove your the best" tests, you have to kill. And to proove s/he is the best student the Exile has to kill all the other 'best students' within range. That includes Nihilus. She had been training the Exile for that encounter from the start. She just didn't come out and say it. I mean, she's a manipulator, of course she wouldn't.

 

So, no, Kreia didn't want revenge on Nihilus. But she did want him to die at the hands of the Exile. Which is why she went to all the trouble of setting Nihilus up to be at Taris at the same time as the Exile. At the end, Kreia just wanted the Exile to be stronger than her, and she didn't care whether or not s/he was Light Dark, even though she was pure sadistic evil (as evidenced by the removed cutscenes that can be found on the Obsidian forums links in text).

 

I hope that has cleared things up.

[Kunai_W_O_Chain]

Try to post that in GameFAQs Star Wars forum and you be eaten alive.

 

And I would be joing for dinner ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Umm...Which part? If you are going to be contrary and venomous, at least be specific while you're doing it.