Ancient Sith

[jaguars4ever]

There are two things I hate, ignorance and the dutch.

 

(Ok there are more)

 

Now I hope this finaly sink in ... I doubt it because some people are so blind with the ignorance that even when exposed to the facts instead of trying to prove such facts as wrong (and since they are not they realize they were wrong in the first place) keep pressing their ignorance.

 

The sith race was a primative race when discovered by the fleeing fallen jedi fraction that lost in the "argument" (more like internal war) of the use of the dark side of the Force and when they seen those former Jedi they worshiped then as gods.

 

And do the Sith Empire was born, eventually as millenia passed the Jedi Order and the Republic existence became a myth until Marka Ragna funeral that lead to the Great Hyperspace War and the destruction of the Sith Empire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which 'faction' do you thing the "True Sith" that Kreia spoke of belong to? She said something along the lines that "...but in their heart of hearts, they never forgot about the Jedi..."

 

(I) Most of Ludo Kressh's forces were destoyed and Naga Sadow's remnant fled to Yavin, in the aftermath of the Great Hyperspace War - but it is possible several of these groups escaped and thereby re-established over the next 2000 years?

 

However, as you said, these Sith forgot about "the Jedi Order and the Republic existence became a myth until Marka Ragna funeral that lead to the Great Hyperspace War and the destruction of the Sith Empire."

 

(II) So couldn't it also be possible that these 'True Sith' are descendents of the orginal Schism approx. 20000 years back (and thus have an undiluted hate for the Jedi Order and their Repbulic), but are unrelated to Marka Ragnos' Golden Empire?

 

I'd like you know your take on theories (I), (II), or other pertaining to the 'True Sith', Drak.

[The Great Phantom]

Maybe this will clear things up for you

 

*It is a SITH TEMPLE

*The Star Forge was never used prior to Revan restoring the Sith

*The Star Forge was neve used due to THE DISAPEARANCE OF THE SITH

 

The Rakata were mere slaves to the Sith, they built it because they wanted to Understand the Force or what they considered to be "Magic" The Rakata never understood the force, and the Sith betrayed them.

 

Your dates are all right i was estimating times, exar kun was right but everything else is right. And the Rakata never truely had an empire, they are just stupid keepers of useless knowledge.

 

where you get the facts of the Rakata Empire is beyond me.

Even SW materials, and the databank for that matter say nothing of Rakata being in control. Revan tricked them and gained control to the temple, where in fact he gained power over the starforge which the rakata never thought revan could do. The Temple was made by the sith. All and all the temple ensures the ownership of the star forge to the sith.

 

The rakata are not evil either they would never be able to control such a large artifact of great evil. Only the Sith would be able to think of something like this. Some rakata did bathe in its darkness but the rakata are not like this naturally. The rakata stick to their own traditions but are curious about the force or in their culture are considered "magic". the rakata were under the idea they would be  able to control the power of the star forge. The fools didnt even understand its power and its purpose. Im suprised Revan and Malak didnt slaughter them, those fools deserve it.

 

WHen i speak of the Sith i'm not talking about stupid Dark jedi. Im talking about the race. The sith where ingrained with the dark side of the force. The sith teachings come from the sith ( obviously ) even tho the sith werent technollogically advanced there knowlledge of the force made up for that.

 

AND YES THE STUPID RAKATA BUILT THE GOD-DAMNED THING!

 

But the Sith were there masters and the darkness that clings to the Star Forge and the presence of that energy would never be possible by the non-force sensitive Rakata.

 

So this supports

 

SITH DESIGN

BUILT BY THE RAKATA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Have you even PLAYED Kotor I yet? I just talked to the two computers by the Rakata. They had an empire spanning dozens of worlds, and trillions of slaves, the Sith Species being one.

 

The Rakata weren't always un-Force Sensitive. Talk to the Elders, and they talk about the "good old days".

 

If you have played Kotor I, then you only listened to the uncultured One of the Barbarian Tribes. The Elders have a MUCH more modern view, and were the ones that invented the Star Forge and used it in the first place.

 

The Sith Species NEVER left their planet (Korriban was the original home world, I believe). Therefore, they never even SAW the Star Forge. The Builders built and ran their Infinite Empire, with the ONLY possibility of a betrayal by the Blood Sith was when they were wiped out by a disease.

 

Dude, you REALLY need to play through and check your sources. I just replayed the whole Rakatan Planet, and your theory is WAY off. WAYWAYWAYWAYWAY off.

 

I hate ignorance... I really do...

[Darth Nihilius]

Yeah you shouldn't assume things that you RoadReaction are making A** of you and me. I think thats what my computer course teacher says about ASSUME. That he says that when someone assumes something wrong in their computer without making any checks to see what is the real problem which maybe not be the real problem at all.

[jaguars4ever]

Road Reaction's credibility = 0.00

[213374U]

Maybe this will clear things up for you

 

*It is a SITH TEMPLE

*The Star Forge was never used prior to Revan restoring the Sith

*The Star Forge was neve used due to THE DISAPEARANCE OF THE SITH

 

The Rakata were mere slaves to the Sith, they built it because they wanted to Understand the Force or what they considered to be "Magic" The Rakata never understood the force, and the Sith betrayed them.

 

Your dates are all right i was estimating times, exar kun was right but everything else is right. And the Rakata never truely had an empire, they are just stupid keepers of useless knowledge.

 

where you get the facts of the Rakata Empire is beyond me.

Even SW materials, and the databank for that matter say nothing of Rakata being in control. Revan tricked them and gained control to the temple, where in fact he gained power over the starforge which the rakata never thought revan could do. The Temple was made by the sith. All and all the temple ensures the ownership of the star forge to the sith.

 

The rakata are not evil either they would never be able to control such a large artifact of great evil. Only the Sith would be able to think of something like this. Some rakata did bathe in its darkness but the rakata are not like this naturally. The rakata stick to their own traditions but are curious about the force or in their culture are considered "magic". the rakata were under the idea they would be  able to control the power of the star forge. The fools didnt even understand its power and its purpose. Im suprised Revan and Malak didnt slaughter them, those fools deserve it.

 

WHen i speak of the Sith i'm not talking about stupid Dark jedi. Im talking about the race. The sith where ingrained with the dark side of the force. The sith teachings come from the sith ( obviously ) even tho the sith werent technollogically advanced there knowlledge of the force made up for that.

 

AND YES THE STUPID RAKATA BUILT THE GOD-DAMNED THING!

 

But the Sith were there masters and the darkness that clings to the Star Forge and the presence of that energy would never be possible by the non-force sensitive Rakata.

 

So this supports

 

SITH DESIGN

BUILT BY THE RAKATA

Nice imagination you got there buddy. I think you would be a worthy sucessor to KJA.

[Drakron]

Which 'faction' do you thing the "True Sith" that Kreia spoke of belong to? She said something along the lines that "...but in their heart of hearts, they never forgot about the Jedi..."

 

Considering the Sith origin as a organization.

 

They lost against the Jed Orideri and the Sith have the whole "the strong have the right to rule over the weak" thing going on.

 

The Sith always try to beat the Jedi because the Jedi are the reminder of how the Sith are not stronger, it reminds then they were formed by people that lost against the Jedi and the Sith exists only because they originaly lost against the Jedi.

 

(I) Most of Ludo Kressh's forces were destoyed and Naga Sadow's remnant fled to Yavin, in the aftermath of the Great Hyperspace War - but it is possible several of these groups escaped and thereby re-established over the next 2000 years?

 

Its possible (then again what is not?) but doubtful from a writer point of view its ends up just introducing the same thing again.

 

That is why I am so against using the Sith race outside the Great Hyperspace War, to me it would be the same as fighting the Nazis in 1785.

 

However, as you said, these Sith forgot about "the Jedi Order and the Republic existence became a myth until Marka Ragna funeral that lead to the Great Hyperspace War and the destruction of the Sith Empire."

 

The only ones that had contact with the Republic and the Jedi Order were the fleeing fallen Jedi, as they died and other generations come it became a myth.

 

Its possible to happen again but not in the same way.

 

(II) So couldn't it also be possible that these 'True Sith' are descendents of the orginal Schism approx. 20000 years back (and thus have an undiluted hate for the Jedi Order and their Repbulic), but are unrelated to Marka Ragnos' Golden Empire?

 

No because "The Sith" are both the Sith Race and those Jedi, if its just those Jedi is simply a bunch of dark siders.

 

The Sith are a fusion of the Sith race ideas and the fallen Jedi ideas, in order to have the Sith there is the need to have both.

 

A Sith will always be a darksider but a darksider does not have to be a Sith.

[The Great Phantom]

Well, here I am again.

 

Let's refer to the Sith Species as 'Blood', for Blood Sith. The Dark Jedi will be Lords, as that is the position the original 'crusaders' took when they found the Bloods. Sith will be a generic term used for both.

 

Okay. Here it goes.

 

The Lords left the Republic, and found Korriban, with all of the little Bloods. The Bloods used the Force, but had a VERY limited knowledge and discipline to use it like the Lords, so the Lords quickly became rulers. Over time, the tales of Jedi and the Republic were consigned to ancient holocrons and scary stories used at Sith hiking trips.

 

But then came Marka Ragnos, a true genious. He actually delved into Sith knowledge, including these ancient holocrons. He heard tell of a powerful Empire and even more powerful guardians called Jedi. He knew that if the Sith ever expanded into this strange Empire, then it would start a war, and the Sith would end up loosing. So, using his Revan-like genious, he manipulated others to hate him, due to his anti-expansionistic outlook. He believed in strengthening what they had, before taking more.

 

He used his power(s) to manipulate his enemies into killing eachother, so that the common Sith power struggles actually became a way for him to preserve the Sith. Then he died, and Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh both went for power.

 

They fought at Ragnos' funeral, and he appeared and warned them. He told them to choose their fights wisely, and that something was about to happen. Sadow, being a brash genious, ignored him. Then came Gav and Jeri (???), two hyperspace explorers. Sadow used his misplaced genious, and saw a whole new Empire for the Sith to conquer. All of Ragnos' efforts, in the end, only delayed the inevitable.

 

The rest of Sadow's story has become an almost cliche, so I'll skip ahead to the Final Battle of the Great Hyperspace War.

 

Sadow fled the Republic's fleet, but ran into Kressh's. Kressh, whom Sadow had thought dead, attacked the Dark Lord (This makes one wonder. Who was the real traitor, Sadow for screwing the Empire, or Kressh for continuing it?). During the battle between the two's fleets, the Republic showed up, and pulled a classic Star Wars moment, and killed most of the fleet.

 

But then Sadow turned and ran, using much of his remaining power to implode a star, discontinuing the Republic's chase. He and his remaining Massassi fled to Yavin IV, and waited.

 

BUT, whose to say that one of Kressh's people didn't survive? Nobody ever made sure that the Sith were dead, so...

 

My guess is that a few Sith were on a Sith World, waiting for Kressh's or Sadow's orders to come. Perhaps they stayed waiting for a beacon, and Kreia just set one off.

Or, they got separated from Sadow in his flight, and retreated to a Sith World, rebuilding, but being careful about where they conquered, in fear of sounding off about their presence.

 

Who knows, except Obsidian?

 

[Drakron]

The problem with that is the Republic after the Sith attack would never allow such problem to remain.

 

The reason we dont see the Republic fleet turning the Sith planets surface into glass is because the Republic is the "good guys" and genocide is not something the "good guys" sould be doing.

 

Yet logic says they could not allow the Sith Empire to remain since they would rebuild and attack again, leaving the Sith planets alone would mean they would simply rebuild their fleets and attack again.

 

Some Sith might have survived but not their Sith Lords, without then they would simply degenerate like the Rakata did (or the sith in Yavin IV).

 

Also making the Sith return is simply going over EU mistakes of the past (Superweapon of the week and Palpanite clones) and that is bad, if people want to know about the Sith race there are those comics over then, just like if people want to know about the Vorg there are those novels about then.

[The Great Phantom]

Nope, the Republic actually never made sure that the Sith were dead. Good guys or no, they still no about running an Army, especially before the Jedi Order became a team of overspeculating shortsited people. The Order was actually an Order of Knights that actually DID something when there was trouble.

 

In the comics, it says that the Republic fleet left after Sadow blew the star, figuring that that was his suicide gift, not knowing that he had survived. They had suffered intense losses, and retreated to repair the damage done to mainly the Empress Teta system(s).

 

I personally wouldn't mind True Sith to return, but I would like this to be their REAL end, IF (and again IF) the True Sith are Sith Species. For all we know they could be highly developed Nihilus's that can actually fight back... I know it may be cliche, but there are only so many twists there can be, after all? Besides, no evil army has ever returned from the brink of extinction, kicked butt, and died for good. Granted the Mandies did something like that, but not to the extent of any True Sith out there... So what if there is a comic about them? There's comics about the Old Republic, yet when Kotor was announced, I really wanted to PLAY as a Jedi or Dark Jedi in the times of the Great Ones. Granted, it's actually a thousand years later, but it hit really close to the mark, and I like it.

 

I wouldn't mind killing an army of un-mutated Massassi, personally. :ph34r: (Scary thing is, I have the code for those 2 smilies memorized...) :ph34r:

 

Logic ALSO says that who said all the Sith Lords were killed? Surely there must be some that hate both Kressh and Sadow... And, even if they were, a Ruler would soon emerge, like the Mandalorians.

[The Great Phantom]

Well, I'm going to post a bit of what I'm going to have the social junk be like in my fanfic (I have a working title, and it sounds SO cool! "Dark Echoes: The Fifth World", or something similar).

 

Here's the social classes in order of power:

 

Dark Lord (Human or Half-Breed)

20 Sith Lords ("")

Sith Lord Apprentices ("")

Minions (Sith Priests, HB, Human) (Include Assassins)

Warriors (Massassi, HB, Human)

Underlings (Sith anything)

Slaves (Slaves)

Sith Exiles

 

The last thing (Exiles) is an idea. I mean, the Sith were an Empire. So, naturally, somebody's going to do something to get themselves exiled, or cast out of the 'inner circles'... This MAY happen to Malachor himself...

 

Now I have a question: Not every Human is going to end up Force Sensitive... What did they do to those that weren't? Did they use Sith Alchemy and mutate them? Or did they practice genocide? I would possible ideas for this, thanks!

 

Wow, this is tricky... :ph34r:

[Wycked]

Um, wasnt the Star Forge a creation of the Rakatan? Were they Sith? I knew they were evil, mean and darky-types, but were they the True Sith? Just wonderng...

[The Great Phantom]

No. Pay no attention to RoadRage, at all.

[Darth Nihilius]

Starforge was in way alive that it has a dark side presence and it feeds on the dark side to its reactor. Rakatan empire were technological advanced of its time before the collapse.

[The Great Phantom]

I've said that before. They fused DS into tech, like some of the GREATEST Dark Lords 18000 yrs. later.

[Vincenzo Morello]

As far as i know you had the jedi schism the dark jedi then flee to korriban Tomb World of the Sith but not the home world the jedi hunted them down then you had Marka Rangnos (Strongest Sith ever my opinion thoughy) then you had Naga Sadow who fled to Yavin with many Massassi warrior caste then i have no idea what happens to him i think Freedon Nadd falls to the DS the kills Sadows spirit then Exar Kun is about some time after and takes out Nadds spirit but i read some where the the Sith race dissapered but the actual sith race were not just on korriban they were on other planets to i know there homeworld (i think i do anyway) it was called Ziost. But there is no real info as to what happen to the real true blooded sith race i know Kun killed a $#!+ load of Massassi but by they they were so changed by sadows Alchemy and so primative they were no longer TRUE BLOODED SITH but as to the true sith species dissaperance i dont know also people who say the Jedi came first strictly speaking are wrong because before the Dark Jedi met the true Sith species the SITH species were practicing Sith Magic

(AKA the Force) but the Dark Jedi combined it with there knowlage of the force to make it what it is.

[Lord Zacarus]

talk about Marka Ragnos

bitch

[The Great Phantom]

The Jedi didn't hunt down the Sith. It was an accident, and the Sith were the ones that found the Jedi.

 

After the Schism, the Jedi had to lick their wounds (again), letting many Sith flee, and all was forgotten, except by the Greatest minds of both factions.

 

IMHO, Marka Ragnos was an ancient Revan. I'll just ignore the fact that his master was a floating head...

[stormcloud777]

There is no "cannon" to the Sith, or even the Sith golden age.

 

If you are talking about the dark jedi Sith and not the feeble aliens that worshipped them, then the caste structure should be:

 

Sith "Emperor"

Sith Lords

Sith Knights

Sith Soldiers (non-force users)

 

And if you follow the cannon, then these Sith ALWAYS plotted against each other until Darth Bane who whacked everyone else and ascended as the Emperor.

[The Great Phantom]

Not true. There is a canon to the Sith, as they are in the Database... :ph34r:

 

Besides, it doesn't conflict w/ anything, so why not?

[Vincenzo Morello]

Actually The Great Phantom if you play KOTOR 1 when you speak to the spirit of Anjunta Pall he says are MAsters hunted us down the ones we betrayed im only going by that when i said about the schism. I dont think Simus(floaty head) was Marka Ragnos master and he was not always just a head he fought Mark Ragnos for Mantle of th Dark Lord of the Sith and lost but using Sith magic simus managed to keep himself alive but only his head it was in a Sith Jar and Naga Sadow eventually killed Simus.

[stormcloud777]

imho, if u want to write a story, go ahead. its just u needn't create the origins of the sith and the long lineage. part of lucas plan is to make the stories 'timeless'. its sort of like the bible -- In the Beginning there was Light. a lot of people question, well where the smack did the Light come from??

 

and as much as i hate to say it, there are inconsistencies between the movies and kotor1/2 (<3 u KOTOR1!)... ie the naboo PM saying "there hasnt been a full scale war since the formation of the republic", and then in KOTOR1 we see a full scale war (btw I sooo dig the full scale war). i also wonder, as much as we all love seeing a Sith Empire, the starwars databank said they were shrouded in secrecy for a long time, so the Sith rule can only have happened in the ancient/Bane era, prior to the Republic.

 

Here's two extrapolations for you;

- Since Lucas based the jedi/sith on samurai, the Sith probably would resemble the samurai wars of feudal Japan with 1 Emperor and many vassals duking it out for ascension.

- Every article in the SW databank indicates it was always fallen jedi who went and started these Sith clans. I would guess they are violent variations of the jedi. So if you need to detail the creation of the Sith Order, start there. In terms of the Sith world, think of feudal japan with samurais being upper caste and the common citizenry worshipping the samurai.

 

maybe i should write something. Then again, feel free to create your own ideas. Half the fun is reading a new idea.

[The Great Phantom]

Actually The Great Phantom if you play KOTOR 1 when you speak to the spirit of Anjunta Pall he says are MAsters hunted us down the ones we betrayed im only going by that when i said about the schism.  I dont think Simus(floaty head) was Marka Ragnos master and he was not always just a head he fought Mark Ragnos for Mantle of th Dark Lord of the Sith and lost but using Sith magic simus managed to keep himself alive but only his head it was in a Sith Jar and Naga Sadow eventually killed Simus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know that Simus wasn't always a head, but I choose to disregard the fact that he ever was. :ph34r:

 

Ajunta says that they fled, and that they hid. Then he talks about how they built fortresses and such, and how that no exterior threat was open. The Republic left them eventually (or, they hid), and the Sith did what Sith do (killing eachother w/out a strong leader).