The Kreia/Kae Question

[The Sodomist]

No, I have not got them mixed up. Disciple still appears in the Jedi Enclave if you are male. HAVE YOU GOT THAT? Yes. And he says that Arren Kae was the Jedi Master who helped Revan leave the order once Revan had completed his/her training...

 

I don't ever remember hearing that line. I thought that Disciple simply said that he had heard that Revan returned to his first master to learn how to leave the Order. I don't remember him mentioning Arren Kae.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe it came from the new patch as I didn't get it the first time I played (with female char).

[Influence]

I have found such strong circumstancial evidence that Kriea is Kae that is is impossible to ignore I mean really basic inference skills that we learned in 7th grade english can tell u that it is infered that they are the same person. Ill come back to you when i have direct quote but for now:

 

Kreia says that Kae was exiled becasue she had a child and we know that Kreai herself was exiled. similarity number one.

 

Handmaiden says that betryal is in her blood because of her mother. Kreai is a master betrayer and when you train handmaiden to be a Jedi, Kreia in a cut scene is in meditation and says "betrayal", becasue Hadnamiedn betrays her oath to atris. similarity number 2

 

They both have white hair. Sim 3

 

When you tell handmaiden that she has a beautiful face she must have inheritted from her mother, Handmaiden reveals she never saw her mothers face.

 

Atton Rand says that Kreia used to be "hot" and good looking but jsut has a weather beaten face.

 

Handmaiden says that her mothers body was never recovered from malachor V and that she was assumed dead...OR MAYBE SHE WAS JUST RUNNING THE TRAYA ACADEMY with Mr. Dry skin and mask Face, SImilarity number 4

 

THere are TONS more i have forgotten and if ANYONE thinks that Kreia is not Kae, there name are a little too familiar as well, shoudl not have passed 12th grade enlgish class and must have bombed teh SAT becasue u were tested on what an authors IMPLIES in a story or article.

Really play LS male and trian them to be Jedis and talk to Kreai and handmaiden all teh tiem and I have no doubt you will know that I am Correct,

 

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME ONE PROVE ME WRONG BUT I KNOW YOU WILL NOT CAUSE I AM RIGHT!!!! KREIA IS KAE FOR ALL THE ABOVE REASONS AND MORE IF YOU cannot infer it form thE information given than perhaps teh KOTOR 2 story line is a little out of your league.

 

SO PLEASE someone tell me what they think cause i really think it is impossible to disagree with this!!!

[OneWithStrange]

They both have white hair. Sim 3

 

Forget what the Force can do to someone's appearance for a sec... Kreia is old. Her voice sounds old. She's cranky like an old person. Old people have white hair. There's nothing to suggest that Kae had white hair.

 

When you tell handmaiden that she has a beautiful face she must have inheritted from her mother, Handmaiden reveals she never saw her mothers face.

 

Atton Rand says that Kreia used to be "hot" and good looking but jsut has a weather beaten face.

 

He says she must have been, but that's his opinion. What does Atton know, anyway?

 

SO PLEASE someone tell me what they think cause i really think it is impossible to disagree with this!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's not impossible, dude.

 

-Ben

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"He says she must have been, but that's his opinion."

 

Might have been, actually.

 

At least, that's the way I remember it.

[Influence]

They both have white hair. Sim 3

 

Forget what the Force can do to someone's appearance for a sec... Kreia is old. Her voice sounds old. She's cranky like an old person. Old people have white hair. There's nothing to suggest that Kae had white hair.

 

When you tell handmaiden that she has a beautiful face she must have inheritted from her mother, Handmaiden reveals she never saw her mothers face.

 

Atton Rand says that Kreia used to be "hot" and good looking but jsut has a weather beaten face.

 

He says she must have been, but that's his opinion. What does Atton know, anyway?

 

SO PLEASE someone tell me what they think cause i really think it is impossible to disagree with this!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's not impossible, dude.

 

-Ben

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You "disproved" my joke arguments, congratualations and nice work disproving the rest of the stuff!!!! Besides atton saying she was probably good looking when she was older is a reference to teh male conversation with handmaide. Liek I said basic inference skills people. Really how dense, stubborn, and blidn do u have to be to not see this i mean come ON!!

[The Sodomist]

They both have white hair. Sim 3

 

Forget what the Force can do to someone's appearance for a sec... Kreia is old. Her voice sounds old. She's cranky like an old person. Old people have white hair. There's nothing to suggest that Kae had white hair.

 

When you tell handmaiden that she has a beautiful face she must have inheritted from her mother, Handmaiden reveals she never saw her mothers face.

 

Atton Rand says that Kreia used to be "hot" and good looking but jsut has a weather beaten face.

 

He says she must have been, but that's his opinion. What does Atton know, anyway?

 

SO PLEASE someone tell me what they think cause i really think it is impossible to disagree with this!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's not impossible, dude.

 

-Ben

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Playing as a male character, Disciple will tell you that Revan's master was Arren Kae and that Arren Kae was the person Revan turned to in order to learn how best to leave the Jedi order. As Kreia was also Revan's master and also the person that Revan then they must in fact be the same person

 

Just in case you lot missed the first time. Forget that strawman. Kae is Kreia. Read the above.

[Darth Flatus]

I haven't played for a while but i thought the Disciple lists all of revan's masters by name including arren kae and then at the end mentions revan's first master (not by name) to whom revan returned so as to learn how to leave the order.

 

Thus listing arren kae and revan's first master as 2 diff ppl.

[OneWithStrange]

Playing as a male character, Disciple will tell you that Revan's master was Arren Kae and that Arren Kae was the person Revan turned to in order to learn how best to leave the Jedi order. As Kreia was also Revan's master and also the person that Revan then they must in fact be the same person

 

Just in case you lot missed the first time. Forget that strawman. Kae is Kreia. Read the above.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry dude, there is only strong circumstantial evidence. I like the connection, truly I do, but there's nothing that directly links them. Enough fundamentalism, already.

 

-Ben

[Influence]

perhaps some intellegence and inference is required to discover the truth instead of having it simply handed to you.

[OneWithStrange]

Granted, but that bit of wisdom does nothing in this situation. The problem (or perhaps jewel) of the Kotor 2 storyline is that anyone can infer anything they want; but that still doesn't make it 'true', as you put it. It's still circumstantial.

 

Curse you, Forna, you've started a cult following!

 

-Ben

[Mandalore Tim]

soo if i got this right> Kreia/Kae was the Handmaidens mother org. Meaning That old witch could become 'Male Exciles' mother in law

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Playing as a male character, Disciple will tell you that Revan's master was Arren Kae and that Arren Kae was the person Revan turned to in order to learn how best to leave the Jedi order. As Kreia was also Revan's master and also the person that Revan then they must in fact be the same person

 

Just in case you lot missed the first time. Forget that strawman. Kae is Kreia. Read the above.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You have got to be kidding me. Disciple mentions both Kae and Revan's first master as two seperate people.

 

He says Revan had many masters before the war Zhar, Vandar, and Kae before Kae left for the wars but went back to his first master to learn how to best leave the order.

 

Why not say went back to Kae to learn how to leave the order.

[Darth Flatus]

^^ Yup thats what i said, so its not only me who thinks that. I wasnt sure cos i havent played in a while.

 

Its one thing to say kae *might* be kreia and i'm sure one could find (and indeed has done) plenty of circumstantial evidence to lend credence to their theory.

 

But there is nothing in the game saying conclusively that they are one and the same. So for those who choose to believe kreia=kae bear in mind that it is only your opinion and not fact.

[The Great Phantom]

This topic is exhausted by now... If I was a mod, I'd lock it.

 

There is no CONCLUSIVE evidence, but it can pretty much be stated as a fact that Kreia trained/is Arren Kae...

 

I think most people are frightened of having her as a mother-in-law, but what if the writer's whole point for throwing in Kreia was to get some empathy from gamers? Maybe they have a mother-in-law that's as bad/worse... :ph34r:

[Cathari]

There's also the bit where Vrook in the "Jedi Council" scene expresses surprise that Kreia is alive "I thought you died in the Mandalorian Wars!". and "If this is your new Master exile, then you will follow down the same path as surely as Revan did", or something to that effect, and this ties in with Revan seeking out Kreia to leave the order.

 

This doesn't prove anything of course, but Arren Kae was believed to have died in the Wars too, so this is merely another point of circumstantial evidence to demonstrate that just because people believe that someone died, doesn't really mean that they are.

 

As mentioned above, Disciple makes reference that Kae left for the Mandalorian Wars, and that Kae was one of Revan's first teachers. Disciple mentions that Revan returned to his first teacher for instruction on how to leave the order. Kreia makes mention that she first taught Revan early on, and then Revan returned to be instructed by her after she had left the Jedi Order, and presumably that would have been his last relationship with any "master" in the role of an apprentice before he went on to become a Master himself and leading the Jedi Wars.

 

Then there is also this very compelling quote from Disciple which I have not seen mentioned above:

 

"As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that.And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had."

 

...and since Kreia stated that she was Revan's first master (as she would be if he were a padawan under her), and then that she was his final master, this gives a tremendous amount of weight to the argument that Kreia is indeed Arren Kae, and Brianna's mother.

 

That quote by the Disciple came up in one line of questioning and when viewed with Kreia's statements about her relationship with Revan makes for a rather convincing case in my mind.

 

Sorry if all of this was mentioned above, I read through the first 15 pages and didn't see anyone mention it by then.

[Cathari]

Conclusive evidence that Kreia is Arren Kae - in-game quotes

 

...and one more additional set of quotes from Kreia herself that matches what Disciple said:

 

Kreia: "He came to me, yes. Both before and after, before Revan knew himself.And after, in the times when Revan was coming into his own and learning he was more than he had been told. At one time, Revan was my Padawan. In times past, long ago. "

 

Kreia: "But Revan, when he had learned all he could, had other masters... that fool Zhar, and other Jedi on other planets. He learned from each."

 

Kreia: "But in the end, he turned back to me. When he realized there was nothing more to be learned from the Jedi - except how one could leave them forever."

 

....now compare that to what Disciple says....

 

Disciple: "Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars. Towards the end of his training, he sought out many to learn techniques.It is said that he returned to his first master at the end of his training, in order to learn how he might best leave the order."

 

Disciple: "As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that.And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had."

 

These set of quotes, together, conclusively tell us that Kreia is indeed Arren Kae.

[Darth Flatus]

How?

[Cathari]

How?

 

Trick question?

[Darth Flatus]

You presented quotes as evidence but you didnt explain how they led you to your conlusion. So i asked How?

[Cathari]

You presented quotes as evidence but you didnt explain how they led you to your conlusion. So i asked How?

 

What needs to be explained?

 

Conclusions from the quotes:

 

Arren Kae was Revan's first master (when he was a Padawan). He had other masters after that (Zhar, Dorak, plus presumably others), after he had learned all that he could from her. He returned to his first master, the one who was exiled (Arren Kae), to learn how best to leave the Jedi Order.

 

Kreia tells us that she was Revan's Master when he was a Padawan, and that Revan returned to her to learn how to leave the Jedi Order.

 

Kreia/Kae are the one and the same person.

[Darth Flatus]

It is not explicit that Kae was his first during his padawanship

[Cathari]

It is not explicit that Kae was his first during his padawanship

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Disciple's comment here says that she was:

 

"As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that."

 

Disciple's extremely strong implication here is that Kae was Revan's first, and the other's came later after Kae was exiled, also supported by Kreia's statements that the others came later.

 

"But Revan, when he had learned all he could, had other masters"

 

This is basic English common sense. When you read this statement - it is saying that "other" masters (meaning plural) came later after the first. Since Kreia is making the statement, she is clearly Revan's first Master, as supported by Disciple's statement above that other Master's came after Kae, his first.

 

Zhar, Dorak, and Arren Kae were Revan's first 3 masters, with the others, "on other planets", coming later as stated by both Kreia and Disciple. Which of those three was first may appear unclear, but it is not. But this is explained and supported. His "final" master was female (as stated by Disciple), and since the final master is the first master, then the first master must be a female from either Zhar, Dorak or Kae. Now Kreia tells us that Revan had Zhar after her. Which leaves us with Dorak. Now Dorak is male (so is Zhar incidentally), as he's in Kotor1, so that leaves us with Kae/Kreia as the only one of the three who is both female and one of Revan's first Master's, which makes Kae/Kreia as Revan's first master, since Kreia was his last master.

 

Kae/Kreia are the same person.

[metadigital]

Disciple's comment here says that she was:

 

"As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that."

 

Disciple's extremely strong implication here is that Kae was Revan's first, and the other's came later after Kae was exiled, also supported by Kreia's statements that the others came later.

 

"But Revan, when he had learned all he could, had other masters"

 

This is basic English common sense.  When you read this statement - it is saying that "other" masters (meaning plural) came later after the first.  Since Kreia is making the statement, she is clearly Revan's first Master, as supported by Disciple's statement above that other Master's came after Kae, his first.

 

Zhar, Dorak, and Arren Kae were Revan's first 3 masters, with the others, "on other planets", coming later as stated by both Kreia and Disciple.  Which of those three was first may appear unclear, but it is not.  But this is explained and supported.  His "final" master was female (as stated by Disciple), and since the final master is the first master, then the first master must be a female from either Zhar, Dorak or Kae.  Now Kreia tells us that Revan had Zhar after her.  Which leaves us with Dorak.  Now Dorak is male (so is Zhar incidentally), as he's in Kotor1, so that leaves us with Kae/Kreia as the only one of the three who is both female and one of Revan's first Master's, which makes Kae/Kreia as Revan's first master, since Kreia was his last master.

 

Kae/Kreia are the same person.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What if Kreia was lying to give the impression that she were Kae? "

[Cathari]

What if Kreia was lying to give the impression that she were Kae? "

 

LOL. If one REALLY doesn't want to believe it, then any straw will do, I guess.

[The Great Phantom]

Agh, another attempt at Forum Necromancy!

 

Move on already!