Obsidian

[GhostofAnakin]

magic in games is just technology in disguise..(or is it the other way around)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I meant more in terms of like in Fallout where the characters didn't have magical powers per se, and combat relied on firearms or melee weapons exclusively. Whereas how BG has mages and spells, and KOTOR has Jedi and the Force, I want a game where there are no spells or no Force powers.

[Volourn]

FO had psionics though, of course, the player got cheated and wasn't allowed to use it. BOOOO!!

[GhostofAnakin]

FO had psionics though, of course, the player got cheated and wasn't allowed to use it. BOOOO!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is what I want.

 

For instance (sorry about re-using Star Wars in my examples all the time), I'd like to play a Star Wars game where, obviously, the Force exists, but my character and perhaps even my entire party had no access to it (ie. playing as a Han Solo type rather than a Luke Skywalker type), and the enemies didn't necessarily use it (ie. much like the OT, where the vast majority of bad guys don't have access to the Force, only Vader and Palpatine did).

[kirottu]

I want a game where there are no spells or no Force powers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Game where you can choose between magic and no magic would be good enough for me.

[Volourn]

"For instance (sorry about re-using Star Wars in my examples all the time), I'd like to play a Star Wars game where, obviously, the Force exists, but my character and perhaps even my entire party had no access to it (ie. playing as a Han Solo type rather than a Luke Skywalker type), and the enemies didn't necessarily use it (ie. much like the OT, where the vast majority of bad guys don't have access to the Force, only Vader and Palpatine did). "

 

That be dumb. Unlike the psionics in FO; the Force is SW is pretty common. In a SW game, the player should have an option to be a Force User (but shouldn't be forced ala KOTOR1&2).

[GhostofAnakin]

That be dumb. Unlike the psionics in FO; the Force is SW is pretty common. In a SW game, the player should have an option to be a Force User (but shouldn't be forced ala KOTOR1&2).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Depends on the era setting. As in my example, during the events of the OT, only 5 characters, arguably, had any Force sensitivity at all; Luke, Obi-wan, Yoda, Vader and Palpatine. Leia (at the time of the movies) did not.

 

So in that era, it would be a lot easier to make the game non-Force centralized since very few actual characters could use the Force, as opposed to the KOTOR era or the Prequel era, where everyone and their grandmother was some kind of Jedi or Sith.

 

But you're right. A mix might be more feasible, where the player could play as a Force sensitive character, but at the same time they aren't forced (no pun intended) to and can play through the story as a non-Force sensitive.

[Volourn]

"only 5 characters, arguably, had any Force sensitivity at all; Luke, Obi-wan, Yoda, Vader and Palpatine. Leia (at the time of the movies) did not."

 

You sure about that? Remember, Jedi and Sith arne't the only beings in the SW universe that have access to the Force. I'm sure there were quite a few Force Users at the time.

[GhostofAnakin]

You sure about that? Remember, Jedi and Sith arne't the only beings in the SW universe that have access to the Force. I'm sure there were quite a few Force Users at the time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Depends if we're talking about what we know in the movies, or what the EU tells us. If you go by the movie storyline, then the only major Force sensitives (ie. the only ones with any real power) were the five I mentioned. If you go by the EU, then there are others.

 

But, for instance, the OT movies' storyline would work with a non-Jedi PC, since realistically the only Force sensitive bad guys you'd face would be the "endboss", consisting of a confrontation with Vader and the Emperor. Up until then, the PC wouldn't have to deal with anyone who had a strong power in the Force.

 

But obviously it would take a bit of creative storytelling to explain away why so few of your enemies are Force sensitive. But at the same time, I'd be all for this type of game.

 

I guess I'm just not fond of using magic/Force powers and being attacked by magic/Force powers. I always pick melee or ranged fighters in games (never pick the mage class), and even when forced to play as a Jedi, I tend to choose Guardian so that I can roleplay as a lightsaber warrior (ie. melee fighter), rather than as a Consular who is more adept at using Force powers as his primary weapon of choice.

[Loof]

Starwars feels like a problematic setting to make a game where you can choose if you wan't to use magic or not.

The reason I think it is so, is that force users in Star Wars are more or less superheroes compared to normal non force users, so balancing a game where the developer doesn't know if the player will be a force user or not would be verry tricky.

Of course you could simply make the game so that the force wasn't superpowerfull stuff, but then you run the risk of being attacked for changeing the setting to much...

 

So while I agree that choise is generaly a good thing Star Wars isn't realy a setting where if would be practical to make a game where the player can choose if he wants to use magic or not.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Id like an RPG where combat was nonexistant. I mean, Ive done it PnP a hundred times, why couldnt it work in digital?

 

 

 

 

(except that the people who play them for the combat wouldnt buy it, obviously)

[Loof]

Yeah that would be nice but unfortunetly I don't think there is a big enough market for non violent cRPG's for it to be wokable on a comercial scale. But if there was a indy non combat rpg I would probably try it out if it didn't have horrible design that is...

 

EDIT: drat you edited at the same time I posted...

[Volourn]

"Id like an RPG where combat was nonexistant. I mean, Ive done it PnP a hundred times, why couldnt it work in digital?"

 

It's not a RPG if combat is nonexistent. Period.

 

Ghost: Good points; but elt's face it. A RPG in the SW universe without the Force would be boring comapritvely speaking. Afterall, the 'Force' is a big reason why its speicial.

[GhostofAnakin]

Ghost: Good points; but elt's face it. A RPG in the SW universe without the Force would be boring comapritvely speaking. Afterall, the 'Force' is a big reason why its speicial.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True. But for me it wouldn't be boring, since I've always been a bigger fan of characters like Han Solo, or Bobba Fett, as compared to Luke Skywalker. I've also always been more intrigued by the criminal organizations in the SW universe, such as Black Sun and in KOTOR, the Exchange, rather than the central bad guy such as the Empire or the Sith.

 

But, it's all a moot point because from a business point of view, people want Jedi and thus a game would more than likely sell better if it allowed people to play as Jedi or Sith, as opposed to playing as a non-Force character. And thus you're right in that my suggestion isn't a very feasible game since the "general" fan wants to play as a Jedi.

 

Ah well, wishful thinking on my behalf about the kind of game I'd like to see made. <_<

[Volourn]

Nothing wrong with that. And, hey, I'd like the option to play as a non Jedi. And, Han is my fave characetr in the SW Universe as well. But, to me, the Force is the SW Universe.

[Noceur]

It's not a RPG if combat is nonexistent. Period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hehe, I'm sorry but that's just not true. That would be implying that combat is what defines something as an RPG, which is almost the opposite of the truth.

 

As for Obsidian's third game, l for one am hoping it's not D&D or SW, as we've seen a lot of those in the last few years.

[Volourn]

"Hehe, I'm sorry but that's just not true. That would be implying that combat is what defines something as an RPG, which is almost the opposite of the truth."

 

Yes, it is. Without at leats the choice to partake in combat then there is choice at all.

 

If your character is a pacifist by default then, to me, he's not really a pacifist at all.

 

I never said in order to be a RPG you had to have forced combat; but there has to be combat if the PC chooses that route.

[Noceur]

"Hehe, I'm sorry but that's just not true. That would be implying that combat is what defines something as an RPG, which is almost the opposite of the truth."

 

Yes, it is. Without at leats the choice to partake in combat then there is choice at all.

 

If your character is a pacifist by default then, to me, he's not really a pacifist at all.

 

I never said in order to be a RPG you had to have forced combat; but there has to be combat if the PC chooses that route.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, to that I agree. The way you said it in your initial post insinuated something different, however (at least to me).

 

Roleplaying implies playing a role, though... if your GM sets a game where all the players were to play the roles of pacifists, then playing a pacifist and trying to solve problems without combat is roleplaying. If you break into combat during that session, you're not really playing your role very well

 

But as this is terribly irrelevant to the thread, lets discontinue this discussion.

[Volourn]

"Roleplaying implies playing a role, though... if your GM sets a game where all the players were to play the roles of pacifists, then playing a pacifist and trying to solve problems without combat is roleplaying. If you break into combat during that session, you're not really playing your role very well"

 

Meh. I consider that more in lines of acting; not role-playing. Subtle difference; but eixsting.

 

 

"But as this is terribly irrelevant to the thread, lets discontinue this discussion."

 

It's close enough. Obsidian will read this thread, and our opinion on these manners *may* help them determine what role (fi any) combat and choice will play in their next game.

[Noceur]

Well, this discussion in the light of Obsidian's new game could be interesting.

It would be interesting to see a game that you could finish without doing any fighting (if the player so chose).

This is not unheard of, however, and has been attempted at. I'm thinking of Deus Ex mainly... they wanted the player to be able to sneak through the whole Deus Ex 2, I believe. It'd be interesting to see it in a real cRPG, though... instead of just sneaking through the whole game, the player might actually do a combination of that and talking.

 

I for one think it's quite possible to do a game that has both options available, if the development cycle is long enough.

[Volourn]

Fallot comes close to that. Close, but no cigar... will, you can get through no fighting if you are a coward and don't mind blowing people up from a afar. (w00t)

[Atomic Space Vixen]

I know exactly what I would like to see Obsidian do for their next game.  A Cyberpunk/Post Apacolyptic CRPG set in a dying "fantasy" world.  Something dark and gritty, with elves.  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wait that could be a good idea taking a fantasy setting where magic went dead then advancing it a few thousand years and then doing something with that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd be interested in playing that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know of Rifts, and I am very familiar with the Palladium system, and I really hate it.

 

But I was thinking on Hades idea, as I was washing the dishes, and I think it could be really neat. Basically, take something like a basic fantasy D&D setting and blow it up via a magical apocolypse. Through the abuse of magical forces, all those who tapped into the magica forces damaged and weakened it irrevocably, and ultimately destroyed it, causing mass destruction. All magic users are killed, and the lands ravaged.

Set the game some time after the event (a decade perhaps). There is no contact with the gods, they may or may not still exists, some priests might even consider mages god-killers and hate the very utterance of any magic reference. So while priests exist, they are healers by traditional methods, and can curse and bless only through their followers believing that it's possible, so faith is just that - belief and dogma. There'd be charlatans, fanatics, doomsayers and whatnot.

And in this world the races and cultures are struggling to rebuild and crawl out from under the ruin.

 

Could be fun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really like Hade's idea as well, but I'm not so sure about the "magical apocalypse". In fantasy worlds, not everyone is a magic user so we still see things like bows and arrows, catapults, horses and carts for transportation. It's crude but it's still technology. I see no reason why the technology wouldn't continue to advance because there's still going to be a need for faster travel, indoor plumbing, and warmer homes. Of course it wouldn't advance in exactly the same way as the real world because there is still magic, and why go to a doctor when you can buy a potion to quaff from a mage?

So this could all lead to a tremendous clash between magic and advanced technology, bringing about the post-apocalyptic world with elves and such. The PC could be a magic user, a technology user, or someone from a faction that can see the advantages of both. Essentially three possible main quests (or variations on one that would be affected by your choice), maybe have the ability during the game to switch sides. Add in some sort of "alignment" system, but not necessarily "good vs. evil" but maybe choose between someone who really believes in their cause, someone who is just out to gain power in the side that they see has the better advantage, or someone who just wants to survive and will do what they need to do to live another day.

[Kaftan Barlast]

I think we've seen enough magical mystery fantasy games. Id prefer sci-fi, wasteland-ism or preferably something completely new and untried like a modern age RPG with without vampires, aliens or silly stuff.

[Atomic Space Vixen]

I think we've seen enough magical mystery fantasy games. Id prefer sci-fi, wasteland-ism or preferably something completely new and untried like a modern age RPG with without vampires, aliens or silly stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the thing, this game would be science fiction and wastelands. It would stick a "traditional" fantasy world into a science fiction setting. Elves with laser rifles driving over glass plains on scavenged rusty motorcycles or in shiny hovercars. Mages finding fireballs useless against asbestos suits, so having to try something different. A complete melding of two very popular genres. Take the familiar and place it somewhere unexpected.

The idea of an RPG taking place in the regular world would be interesting, there's lots of room for new and different. I personally would love to see a Clown World RPG (seriously, I've thought about it ("Beware my +3 Seltzer Bottle of Doom!" "No! Not custard cream! I'm blind! BLIND!"), but what seems like just a quip from Hades could be a potentially great game as well.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I wonder what platform they are making it for.

[kirottu]

If it