Rasbedian Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I never really played Throne of Bhaal, only Shadows of Amn. I read the book version of ToB however. Do Imoen and the rest die in the game as well as the novel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirottu Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I would vote if I could: Planescape Torment or Fallout 2 or Dreamweb. But in that list it would probably be BG 2. This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasbedian Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 What I really think about this topic is that NWN2 should really be able to radiate a whole new feel in comparison to the games listed so far on this thread. The graphics engine will be able to immerse the player, and it is hard to compare other games (especially the older 2d view-from-above graphics) with the feel that needs to be generated by the detailed 3d graphics engine. Instead of tossing out comparisons of whole games, we need to simplify WHICH exact parts of those games managed to generate the feel that you had enjoyed and instead describe that, trying to put it in the terms of what NWN2 could accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Surlent Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Well the atmosphere feeling is quite biased subject. I to vote for IWD - HoW The music in the game adds to atmosphere very well and the backgrounds look nice. The setting, being trapped in a valley and nowhere to run makes good motivation to follow the arch druid's advises even with evil characters. Battles in first IWD wasn't munchin fests and you had the feeling of low level campaign, but you still got to moderate levels with enough spells to throw at your foes. The dungeons like Dragon's Eye and Trials of Luremaster felt like challenge to complete. NPCs were very extraordinary (Kresselack the black wolf, Larrel the lich and Belhifet the demon). The confrontations and dialogues with them were brilliant like when you met the barbarian leader in HoW. btw when topic maker makes poll with certain options and doesn't list other-explain option in the list, it's usually a sign he/she wants to limit the discussion to the available options ie games that are in list. So no nagging about PST. :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasbedian Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I'll agree to that. The one thing that ties most of the games on the poll together is the richness of the dialogue you experience with the NPCs. I would definitely want to see more of that in NWN2. It would be nice to be able to carry a lengthy conversation with any NPC you may meet with enough reply choices to really play out the personality you want your character to have. However, I feel that such a thing would be too much to ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Surlent Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 It would be nice to be able to carry a lengthy conversation with any NPC you may meet with enough reply choices to really play out the personality you want your character to have. However, I feel that such a thing would be too much to ask for. I don't think so, it's very legimate to demand that. Realistically writing that would take a lot of time, but it's consumer's right to want good dialogue in crpgs. Especially since NWN2 isn't done just in few days, but in few years, the devs have enough time to write dialogues. If Avellone is working with NWN2, the dialogues might end up whole conversations like in PST. Personally I'd like to see converations between more than just two people. This is all too common in crpgs, while in console rpgs like in FFs the whole group gathers together to talk with each other and the conversations include lots of sidecharacter dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Probably BG because it was the first. Though the bleakness of IWD came across incredibly well so it's very close between those two. NWN ,well ick. Get deja vu all the time playing that game. Hey look the temple of Lathander is the Halls of Justice. Wow so is that temple in HotU... Not to mention every crypt looking like the creator ruins. More to do with tiles than 3d it has to be said. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellester Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Yea SP, NWN didn Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Guybrush Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I agree with everything Ellester said. Baldurs Gate1: In terms of gameplay, storyline and characters i feel this was the most complete of all 4 listed. The gameplay was good fun, pointing you into the direction of towns but never pushing you. The quests were never forcing you to do something straight away which i found annoying in bg2. The storyline for me was perfect, alot of twists, and great fun to act out. The locations felt real to me, and the whole game gave off a feel of innocence, just like your main character and Imeon. The characters and dialog for me was probably the best out of all 4 as well, though IWD is very close to it. I loved the conversations you could have, and the npcs interactions were great, i also felt that each character had lives of their own, Minsc for example. Played 5 times, last time was summer of last year. Ice Wind Dale: This is the game i've actually played the most. Although you were pushed from location to location. I really loved those locations, and the atmosphere of each was completely different. Like someone said the bleakness of the inpending doom came across extremely well. I prefer playing characters from scratch, and although having 6 right from the off was a little demanding to begin with. You soon adapted. I also prefered the limited use of magical equipment. It took a very long time before you began to get magic items, espically magic arrows. I think that was a good move, and would push NWN2 to follow that path. Magic items are far too common in Nwn and BG2 to feel special. Baldurs Gate2: To be honest, i felt the game dragged on for too long. I did however like the differential in narrative half way through. Choosing which path to take was a good move, i'd like more of that in NWN2. However, i didn't really feel any Empathy for any of the characters, and by the end of the game i was hoping Imeon would die! The only part i liked was the Shadow Thief guild, which i thought was really good. I also liked the bit underneath the sewers. The whole game just felt a bit uninspired in all departments, their were some good momments, but some of the quests that forced you to take it up right away got frustrating. You'd be half way through a quest, and you'd have to set off on another one. I also dislike vampires with a passion, that whole storyline got annoying. Ice Wind Dale2: I never played the game, nor did i play the demo. Am i missing out on a good expierence? If i am i'll go buy it, will be pretty cheap now i expect. As for NWN, it was a shadow of the game the rest were. Not enough time was spent on the graphics side, the lighting was bad (I spent many hours fiddling around with lights trying to get a better effect). I didn't like the flat feel of the game, and the single player campaign just got incredibally dull. The henchman imo were useless. However, it was easily the best game for the community, and many projects made nwn alot better. HOTU was closer to that of Baldurs Gate and Ice Wind Dale, but still lacked something. Did like Aribeth coming back though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Yea SP, NWN didn I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargallath Abraxium Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Anyhow, someone throw Sarge a raw steak and beat him with a stick. We need to get him back in his cage. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...hehehe...ye luvs it an' ye knows it...not ta mention yer sudden infatuation wit' bringin' me up lately...jus' so's ye remembers, I's engaged an' I dunna switch-hit anyways...sorry, lad...hehehe... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... 1 A long, long time ago, but I can still remember, How the Trolling used to make me smile. And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance", And maybe we'd be happy for a while. But then Krackhead left and so did Klown; Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town. Bad news on the Front Page, BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage. I can't remember if I cried When I heard that TORN was recently fried, But sadness touched me deep inside, The day...Black Isle died. For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargallath Abraxium Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 BG II is still the game to beat when it comes to making the NPCs part of the world. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...as long as yer talkin' 'bout a cookie-cutter world, yes...otherwise PS:T takes that distinction hands down... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... 1 A long, long time ago, but I can still remember, How the Trolling used to make me smile. And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance", And maybe we'd be happy for a while. But then Krackhead left and so did Klown; Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town. Bad news on the Front Page, BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage. I can't remember if I cried When I heard that TORN was recently fried, But sadness touched me deep inside, The day...Black Isle died. For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoq-Fot-Pik Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 BG II is still the game to beat when it comes to making the NPCs part of the world. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...as long as yer talkin' 'bout a cookie-cutter world, yes...otherwise PS:T takes that distinction hands down... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Zoq: Fot: Pik: ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 ...as long as yer talkin' 'bout a cookie-cutter world, yes...otherwise PS:T takes that distinction hands down... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> PST dosnt count the NPCs rely on the fact that they know who the protagonist is from the outset. Otherwise I would have used a JRPG as an example but the same applies there. Plus in PST you dont get much choice when it comes to NPCs. BG has more to choose from. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargallath Abraxium Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 PST dosnt count the NPCs rely on the fact that they know who the protagonist is from the outset. Otherwise I would have used a JRPG as an example but the same applies there. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...Grace doesna know...nor Nordom...Vhailor canna remember fer hisself...Anna only knows what Pharod told her an' the li'l she's seen...Morte, Dak'kon, an' Ignus be the only ones who truly knows TNO fer who he is/was...in other words, yer arguement is fundamentally flawed...Jahiera knows who yer character is in the BG Series through Gorion...Yoshimo knows in SoA 'afore ye e'er meets him...does that make it the same thing???...so yer beloved SoA dunna count either then, by yer logic...not makin' much sense 'ere, SP... " ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... 1 A long, long time ago, but I can still remember, How the Trolling used to make me smile. And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance", And maybe we'd be happy for a while. But then Krackhead left and so did Klown; Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town. Bad news on the Front Page, BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage. I can't remember if I cried When I heard that TORN was recently fried, But sadness touched me deep inside, The day...Black Isle died. For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 ...Grace doesna know...nor Nordom...Vhailor canna remember fer hisself...Anna only knows what Pharod told her an' the li'l she's seen...Morte, Dak'kon, an' Ignus be the only ones who truly knows TNO fer who he is/was...in other words, yer arguement is fundamentally flawed...Jahiera knows who yer character is in the BG Series through Gorion...Yoshimo knows in SoA 'afore ye e'er meets him...does that make it the same thing???...so yer beloved SoA dunna count either then, by yer logic...not makin' much sense 'ere, SP... " ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In PST you can only be one possible character, that makes things easy for the NPCs. Clear enough for you ? Plus it has less than half of the NPCs that BG has which means you can spend more time on each one at the expence of having less choice. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargallath Abraxium Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 In PST you can only be one possible character, that makes things easy for the NPCs. Clear enough for you ? Plus it has less than half of the NPCs that BG has which means you can spend more time on each one at the expence of having less choice. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...not what ye said originally, not at all...backtrackin' doesna suit ye, lad, so why do it???...anyways, them few lame excuses aside, ye still shows no real reason how SoA NPCs be better than PS:T ones...cuz there's less o' 'em???...great excuse; so, since BG had more than SoA, they must be better, right???...ummm, no...you can only be one character, so the NPCs are worse, right???...ummm, no; that actually leads to more involved NPCs cuz they can focus the NPCs on how they react wit' that one character involved...so what's next???...cuz SoA had Minsc an' he's cooler than Morte (which is another false statement, btw)???... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... 1 A long, long time ago, but I can still remember, How the Trolling used to make me smile. And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance", And maybe we'd be happy for a while. But then Krackhead left and so did Klown; Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town. Bad news on the Front Page, BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage. I can't remember if I cried When I heard that TORN was recently fried, But sadness touched me deep inside, The day...Black Isle died. For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 ...not what ye said originally, not at all...backtrackin' doesna suit ye, lad, so why do it???...anyways, them few lame excuses aside, ye still shows no real reason how SoA NPCs be better than PS:T ones...cuz there's less o' 'em???...great excuse; so, since BG had more than SoA, they must be better, right???...ummm, no...you can only be one character, so the NPCs are worse, right???...ummm, no; that actually leads to more involved NPCs cuz they can focus the NPCs on how they react wit' that one character involved...so what's next???...cuz SoA had Minsc an' he's cooler than Morte (which is another false statement, btw)???... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's exactly what I said only said in a different way. The NPCs know in advance who the character will be because there will only be one character. When the designer writes a romance, well no need to allow for different genders because you only have one gender. Different races , no need for those either just human. Classes, only three of those... See the difference ? I said PST didnt count I didnt say that the NPCs were better or worse. Much of the depth of PSTs NPCs come from two things. There are less of them, they only have to react to a specific character. Rather than an unknown in advance variable. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargallath Abraxium Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I said PST didnt count I didnt say that the NPCs were better or worse. Much of the depth of PSTs NPCs come from two things. There are less of them, they only have to react to a specific character. Rather than an unknown in advance variable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...ye still gives no real reasons why the NPCs in PS:T dunna count, as ye puts it...like I said, Jahiera an' Khalid knows the protagonist in the BG Series before he knows who he is, jus' like Iggy, Morte, an' Dak'kon in PS:T...Yoshimo was told 'bout the protagonist in SoA 'afore he e'er meets yer character, jus' like Anna in PS:T...does that mean Jahiera, Khalid, an' Yoshi dunna count either???...no, of course not, cuz it's the BG Series an' theys perfect (add whatever sarcastic comment ya wants 'ere)...so TNO's sex isna a topic fer discussion...his race, howe'er, IS (Grace an' TNO 'ave a nice long chat 'bout it)...his latest persona, fer those who know 'im, is also...an' his class is, e'en if theys limited...an' his history wit' those who does know 'im makes the NPCs that much more in depth...an' there's lots o' unknowns, e'en wit' the ones who know him; who he is now, why he is who he is/was, what path will he choose this time, will it finally end, etc...an' still no sight o' anythin' that shows SoA NPCs should count an' PS:T ones should not...but keep wit' the excuses; reminds me o' the ol' days an' it be the most time I's spent on 'ere in a month... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... 1 A long, long time ago, but I can still remember, How the Trolling used to make me smile. And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance", And maybe we'd be happy for a while. But then Krackhead left and so did Klown; Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town. Bad news on the Front Page, BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage. I can't remember if I cried When I heard that TORN was recently fried, But sadness touched me deep inside, The day...Black Isle died. For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aponez Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Talking about the games of the list only BG2-ToB Talking about any game IL-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles PRIUS FLAMMIS COMBUSTA QUAM ARMIS NUMANCIA VICTA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 ...ye still gives no real reasons why the NPCs in PS:T dunna count, as ye puts it...like I said, Jahiera an' Khalid knows the protagonist in the BG Series before he knows who he is, jus' like Iggy, Morte, an' Dak'kon in PS:T...Yoshimo was told 'bout the protagonist in SoA 'afore he e'er meets yer character, jus' like Anna in PS:T...does that mean Jahiera, Khalid, an' Yoshi dunna count either???...no, of course not, cuz it's the BG Series an' theys perfect (add whatever sarcastic comment ya wants 'ere)...so TNO's sex isna a topic fer discussion...his race, howe'er, IS (Grace an' TNO 'ave a nice long chat 'bout it)...his latest persona, fer those who know 'im, is also...an' his class is, e'en if theys limited...an' his history wit' those who does know 'im makes the NPCs that much more in depth...an' there's lots o' unknowns, e'en wit' the ones who know him; who he is now, why he is who he is/was, what path will he choose this time, will it finally end, etc...an' still no sight o' anythin' that shows SoA NPCs should count an' PS:T ones should not...but keep wit' the excuses; reminds me o' the ol' days an' it be the most time I's spent on 'ere in a month... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> they only have to react to a specific character. Rather than an unknown in advance variable. Really cant make it any more clear than that. Try to imagine the PST NPC's then add in gender/race and class spefic dialogues.. Considering that PST will fall appart even by something as simple as changing the protagonists sex. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargallath Abraxium Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 they only have to react to a specific character. Rather than an unknown in advance variable. Really cant make it any more clear than that. Try to imagine the PST NPC's then add in gender/race and class spefic dialogues.. Considering that PST will fall appart even by something as simple as changing the protagonists sex. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...there was race-specific dialogue...lots o' it 'tween Grace an' TNO (he didna think he was human, nor did Grace)...there was class-specific dialogue (ex - try talkin' ta Iggy as a Mage an' then try it when yer not...two almost totally different conversations at times)...speakin' o' things fallin' apart, any more excuses or will ye finally admit that ye said PS:T NPCs dunna count simply cuz ye didna like PS:T???...I hated NWN, but the moronic henchmen there still count...I hated ToB, but the NPCs that came o'er from SoA wit' yer char still count, as does Sarevok...such strong hate fer PS:T that yer willin' ta make yerself look like Volourn; yer committed, I's'll give ye that...or at least ye should be... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... 1 A long, long time ago, but I can still remember, How the Trolling used to make me smile. And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance", And maybe we'd be happy for a while. But then Krackhead left and so did Klown; Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town. Bad news on the Front Page, BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage. I can't remember if I cried When I heard that TORN was recently fried, But sadness touched me deep inside, The day...Black Isle died. For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 ...there was race-specific dialogue...lots o' it 'tween Grace an' TNO (he didna think he was human, nor did Grace)...there was class-specific dialogue (ex - try talkin' ta Iggy as a Mage an' then try it when yer not...two almost totally different conversations at times)...speakin' o' things fallin' apart, any more excuses or will ye finally admit that ye said PS:T NPCs dunna count simply cuz ye didna like PS:T???...I hated NWN, but the moronic henchmen there still count...I hated ToB, but the NPCs that came o'er from SoA wit' yer char still count, as does Sarevok...such strong hate fer PS:T that yer willin' ta make yerself look like Volourn; yer committed, I's'll give ye that...or at least ye should be... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes but only specific to a known race Or perhaps because I am discounting any NPCs from games with pre generated characters. Would have thought that was pretty obvious though considering what I said above. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargallath Abraxium Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Yes but only specific to a known race <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...what kind o' dumbarse excuse is that???...so, since Grace an' TNO both think he may be a Tiefling or at least have Demonic blood in his rotted veins, yer "so-called" point has validity???...'ave ye been takin' lessons at the Gromnir College o' Lame-Arse Excuses an' Explanations That Helen Keller Wouldna Buy again, SP???... Or perhaps because I am discounting any NPCs from games with pre generated characters. Would have thought that was pretty obvious though considering what I said above. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...the only thing yer makin' obvious 'ere be yer utter lack o' a real point...in that, though, yer commin' along smashingly... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... 1 A long, long time ago, but I can still remember, How the Trolling used to make me smile. And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance", And maybe we'd be happy for a while. But then Krackhead left and so did Klown; Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town. Bad news on the Front Page, BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage. I can't remember if I cried When I heard that TORN was recently fried, But sadness touched me deep inside, The day...Black Isle died. For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 ...what kind o' dumbarse excuse is that???...so, since Grace an' TNO both think he may be a Tiefling or at least have Demonic blood in his rotted veins, yer "so-called" point has validity???...'ave ye been takin' lessons at the Gromnir College o' Lame-Arse Excuses an' Explanations That Helen Keller Wouldna Buy again, SP???... ...the only thing yer makin' obvious 'ere be yer utter lack o' a real point...in that, though, yer commin' along smashingly... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thats not race spefic dialogue. Race spefic dialogue is dialogue that changes based on the race of the character you are playing. Does that dialogue ever change ? Nope, because TNO is always human. PST has a pre generated character so it's disqualified simple as that . Otherwise there are many games I would be using NPCs from I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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