Greatest Jedi ever.

[Laozi]

And I don't think anyones sacrifice should be ignored

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I just don't want russian sacrifice be forgotten only becouse silly brits think that el alamein change anything.

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Even if it's the truth?

 

Russians just cycled their troops into battle like meat into a grinder. Thats not really smart or clever, it smacks of desperation more than anything. Ultimately if not for the allies Russia would have been nuked.

 

Everyone played their part. But your just making yourself look silly with your revised version of history. Without the Russians on the second front it's not likely anything would have stopped the invasion of Britain. Once Britain went that would have been it for Europe as well as anywhere for the Americans to easily enter the war. Everyones sacrifice should be appreciated but not at the expence of revising history.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Ah yeah, the Nazi Nuke. If true, it would definitely had some impact. It's true that it was very bad for Germany to fail to take out the Britain before they went off to fight the Soviet Union. That left a dangerous enemy on the rear to guard against, especially with U. S. war aid. Too bad for them that they didn't have a chance of beating the Royal Navy and failed to beat the Royal Air Force as well. That made invasion impossible.

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Without Britain as a staging post America couldnt have really entered the war in a meaningful way. Hooray for the north sea and the battle of britain.

[Odinson]

Without Britain as a staging post America couldnt have really entered the war in a meaningful way. Hooray for the north sea and the battle of britain.

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No one has forgeotten the English. They took a pounding but did not surrender. Unlike their neighbors to the south. :D

[Nur Ab Sal]

It's quite easy when you are an island with big navy.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

No one has forgeotten the English. They took a pounding but did not surrender. Unlike their neighbors to the south. :D

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Yep but we have the north sea to thank for that as much as the Russians do for the harsh winter. The Battle of Britain is our Kursk, albeit with much better tactics.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It's quite easy when you are an island with big navy.

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so thats easy but outnumbering the other countries populace 4 to 1 isnt...

[Nur Ab Sal]

No one has forgeotten the English. They took a pounding but did not surrender. Unlike their neighbors to the south. :D

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Yep but we have the north sea to thank for that as much as the Russians do for the harsh winter. The Battle of Britain is our Kursk, albeit with much better tactics.

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And without serious sacrifices (except tea defficit)

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

And without serious sacrifices (except tea defficit)

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Most of the serious Russian sacrifices were because of the Russians...The fact that the British pulled off so much with so little speaks volumes. That British commanders had more respect for their soldiers lives, well you can only see that as a good thing.

[213374U]

Russians just cycled their troops into battle like meat into a grinder. Thats not really smart or clever, it smacks of desperation more than anything. Ultimately if not for the allies Russia would have been nuked.

Which is supported by the fact that the Red Army sorely lacked really competent commanders due to Stalin's purging the higher echelons of the military to strengthen his own position.

[Nur Ab Sal]

As much as it pains me I must agree with that. Thanks to Stalin Russia lost first phase ot the WWII.

[Odinson]

No one has forgeotten the English. They took a pounding but did not surrender. Unlike their neighbors to the south. :D

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Yep but we have the north sea to thank for that as much as the Russians do for the harsh winter. The Battle of Britain is our Kursk, albeit with much better tactics.

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And a resilient people. Both sides. You gotta be to endure those winters. The Russians have those winters. The Brits have that space between them and Europe. The U.S. had the advantage of being so far away from the war.

 

But it's the people that are most important. They ones who want to keep fighting and never sureender. The ones who march off to death for their homelands. It's people who win wars, not environments. The victors are those who make best with what they are given. The U.S., Russia, and the U.K. were able to stop the "unstoppable" Nazi war machine using what advantages their environment gave them against the Germans will and technology.

[Odinson]

How did we get so off-topic?

[Kissamies]

Nobody's saying that the western contribution was meaningless... at least I hope nobody is thinking such foolishness. However, it was the Russians who did the most of the fighting. They were completely unprepared for the german invasion, thanks to Stalin, but they got their act together eventually and then pushed the invaders back all the way back to Berlin. Unfortunately they also took casualties to show for it. Of those Soviet men born in 1923, only some 20% lived to see 1946, I have heard

[213374U]

But it's the people that are most important. They ones who want to keep fighting and never sureender. The ones who march off to death for their homelands. It's people who win wars, not environments. The victors are those who make best with what they are given. The U.S., Russia, and the U.K. were able to stop the "unstoppable" Nazi war machine using what advantages their environment gave them against the Germans will and technology.

Beautiful, but unrealistic. There have been a lot of examples throughout History of heroic defenders that resisted to their last breath... only to be slaughtered in the end. Sure, the will to win plays a great part in war, but it's nothing compared to numbers, technology and strategy. Germany had two of these three elements on their side at the beginning of the war and that is why they fared so well. But in the end they were being gangbanged, badly. That, the development of countermeasures to their "Blitzkrieg" tactics, and the supply shortages they suffered are what ultimately tipped the balance of the war.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Nobody's saying that the western contribution was meaningless... at least I hope nobody is thinking such foolishness. However, it was the Russians who did the most of the fighting. They were completely unprepared for the german invasion, thanks to Stalin, but they got their act together eventually and then pushed the invaders back all the way back to Berlin. Unfortunately they also took casualties to show for it. Of those Soviet men born in 1923, only some 20% lived to see 1946, I have heard

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The russian casualty figures are disproportionate compared to the ammount of fighting though. So just because they took huge loses (mostly thanks to their own command) dosnt mean they did most of the fighting.

 

Also the Russians wouldnt have been pushing anyone back if the troops had not been recalled to defend the western front. In the end Germany had nowhere to go.

[Lord Satasn]

Freedom of religion means that people are allowed to believe what they want. Whether this relates to deities or simply plants is irrelevant. As soon as someone claims that only he is right, and forces that view unto others, he is robbing people of their rights.

 

It is not my intent to rob you of your time, Epiphany, though you are robbing my time. I feel obligated to step in as I do not at all appreciate your way of debating and I feel that you are indeed casting a shadow on these forums.

 

Also, I believe I hold the exclusive choice where to take my 'analiytical nonsense' (whatever that is. Analytical, perhaps?), and the administrators and moderators hold the right of deleting, and editing my posts, or banning me from this board. Also, the choice of 'hounding', is also mine, and I shall not be affected by your pitiful attempts at bullying people around.

 

Ad nauseum,

 

Mr U

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So basically u worship the jedi religion and think you're a Jedi Knight?

[Kissamies]

Also the Russians wouldnt have been pushing anyone back if the troops had not been recalled to defend the western front. In the end Germany had nowhere to go.

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Weren't they pushing the germans back at fair pace already by the time western front was opened, though?

[Nur Ab Sal]

The russian casualty figures are disproportionate compared to the ammount of fighting though. So just because they took huge loses (mostly thanks to their own command) dosnt mean they did most of the fighting. .

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Hahaha the fact is that 80% of german forces were engaged in the eastern front. To this front went all reserves, stuff and conscript. Thus its obvious that Russians took all the fight. The most basic goal of nazi policy was to destroy Russia and colonize underhuman slavonic east... Russians took 90% of all WWII fights and if you say otherwise either you lie or you are unlettered. Angloamerican forces engaged only 20% of wehrmacht after 1944 and got their ass kicked in the ardennes. Why englishmen are so bad in history? Accept that your island means nothing and is a pushover to greater powers.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Weren't they pushing the germans back at fair pace already by the time western front was opened, though?

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Difficult to be conclusive. Whether or not they could have maintained it with those casualty rates is open to much debate.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Russians took 90% of all WWII fights and if you say otherwise either you lie or you are unlettered.

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Where did you learn history? If you honestly think 90% of the fighting in WWII was done by russia someones brainwashed you.

 

Umm our little island owned one of the biggest empires in history if not the biggest cant get much more conclusive than that.

 

I see your "english envy" blinds you to the facts.

[Laozi]

Maybe the reason for such high casualties has to do with (best Yackoff Smirnoff impersonation) "In communist Russia soldiers shoot themselves"

 

 

But seriously, I'm sure someone somewhere will probaly support Nur Ab Sal's number. Russia has a history of turning its gret military blunders with huge propaganda campaignes, from Ivan The Great to the Afganistan conflict, russians haven't faired all that well on the battlefield but for the sake of nationalism have put their own "spin" on things.

[213374U]

Russians took 90% of all WWII fights and if you say otherwise either you lie or you are unlettered.

Um, no. Quit making figures up. I guess both the European and African fronts mean nothing to you. WWII was decided in Africa as much as it was in Russia. It's always funny to see people "guessing" History, though. Funny, in a sad, worrisome way.

 

 

Umm our little island owned one of the  biggest empires in history if not the biggest cant get much more conclusive than that.

Yeah, well. Before you get too carried away in your outburst of nationalist pride, let me remind you that that same statement applies to most of the "Old World" powers at one point or another. Don't let old Nur bait you. You were doing just fine.

[Darth Flatus]

Awwww!! Everytime i learn something about Star Wars it pushes something useful out of my brain!!

[Dragonforce]

Why englishmen are so bad in history? Accept that your island means nothing and is a pushover to greater powers.

 

Englishmen? Come to think of it i think Britain defeated germany in the air in the battle of britain and prevented an invasion which later lead the the liberation of France, i can't remember one war when Britain was defated to be honest with you. Throughout history Britain always had the strongest navy and the most effective well trained army. Its still the same today with regards to the army.

 

Would love to know what all powerful country you come from, as lets face it, Germany and France don't have half the economy Britain has or the unemployment. Which may explain why they are both begging britain to join the euro bandwagon.

 

And stop saying the Russian army made the biggest difference to the war, i think it had more to do with the Russian Winter