My review of KOTOR 2

[seabas]

Let me first say that I believe Obsidian worked their asses off making this game. I bet they pulled 20+ hour days near the end of development. I'm amazed they were able to do what they did, i.e. make a huge game, in the time allotted to them. This game was rushed out the door--I don't know by whom, but I'm hoping Obsidian was against it. I hope they fought to keep it in development every step of the way.

 

Now that I got that out of the way, I think the best way to review KOTOR 2 is to compare it to KOTOR 1, a game that came out nearly a year earlier, and is basically superior in all aspects.

 

The graphics: The graphics were actually better in KOTOR 1, or at least implemented better. Obsidian tweaked the engine to make it possible to do new lighting effects. I honestly didn't notice any new lighting effects, but I did notice horrible slowdown in certain fights and environments. I don't know if the slowdown is a result of bad environment design, coding, or whatever, but I'd trade a stable framerate for a fancy lighting effect any day. KOTOR 1 8/10; KOTOR 2 6/10

 

The environments: There were more environments in KOTOR 2, but that doesn't mean they were necessarily better... there was just more of them. I honestly enojoyed KOTOR 1's short tutorial level more than the entire "world" of Peragus. In general, the layout of environments and maps, the points of interest, the interactivity, and the logistics of completing quests was just done better in the first game. KOTOR 1 8/10; KOTOR 2 6/10

 

Equipment and Jedi Powers:

 

KOTOR 2 has a pleathora of items and jedi powers, tons more than the first game. But is that a good thing? It would be if they were implemented correctly, but unfortunately they aren't, so all those extra items and powers just end up being whitenoise... or worse, breaking the game.

 

What's the point of getting an item which its only purpose is to equip and use when I'll never want to equip and use it? Am I suppose to break these worthless items down to get parts? But since parts are already lootable, why not just have more parts lying around? It just saves me a step, and it saves you a lot of work creating all these items that I'll just junk. If you want, all the effort you put into creating items I'll never use, why don't you put that effort into making the items I'll want to use even cooler and more memorable? Every equippable item that drops the player should want to use, period.

 

As for the lightsabres, well, they just ended up being too powerful, as you could easily make awesome components for them with the new workbench system. Within five minutes of getting my single-bladed sabre, it did something like 8-35 damage because I made upgrades for it. My lightsabre never really improved until the very end of the game. Part of what makes RPGs fun and addicting is the idea that you'll always have a chance to get that better weapon. If you start off with the best weapon in the game (barring the last 1/40th part of it), what's the point?

 

The most obvious improvement that you could have made to KOTOR universe items was to strengthen blasters. I ended up making all my characters use swords (until they could use sabres) because blasters were worthless. You needed to improve their power significantly, or make attributes affect their damage... or both. The point-blank range feat was a step in the right direction, but not enough. (I should point out that because the battles are so easy it really doesn't matter if your NPCs use blasters or not. In fact, you could probably solo the entire game on hard without any problems.)

 

On a humerous note, you add in unarmed combat. So for 2 of my characters I didn't even need weapons, as their fists were sufficient, if not better than weapons. I have 10 new different types of two-handed weapons, but I don't want to use any of them because I can punch something instead. This type of game design exemplifies KOTOR 2's running theme: What's the point?

 

And all the new uber jedi powers, seriously. You made the game too easy, even on hard. Instead of adding more broken jedi powers, making my character a unstoppable force of nature--and boring as hell to play--you needed to focus on making the powers that already existed more balanced and intriguing. Make multiple uses for each power. Make puzzles that require certain powers to solve (I can think of some neat ways you could use Speed, Force Lightning, Sabre Throw, Destroy Droid, etc. in puzzles). Do you have any idea how broken Stasis/Fear is? Do you understand how broken it is when combined with Sneak Attack? With Speed and Flurry? In KOTOR 1 the character's power was limited because your character was only a level 14 Jedi with a limited supply force points and selection of powers. Now I'm a level 30 Jedi that never runs out of force points and I have more powers than know what to do with. On top of that, at every turn I learn some ability that adds + to all rolls, or + force points, etc. so I'm actually more like a level 35 Jedi by the end of the game. Although it's fun playing an all-powerful god (afterall, I abused Stasis again), it's boring. Yes, I could make it a challenge by not getting any abusive force power and use blasters, but it would still be boring--what Jedi wants to only use a blaster and boring force powers? KOTOR 1 8/10; KOTOR 2 6/10

 

Okay... this is getting WAY too long and I'm getting bored. To sum it up, the story, characters, romances, etc:

 

Basically, I didn't care about any of my characters at all. I couldn't give a **** about the Exile. Revan was The Man, the Exile wasn't. The romances never went anywhere. There was no emotional payoff. I disliked the influence system, especially since I couldn't see it expressed in any rating or stat.

 

I read somewhere in a preview for KOTOR 2 that there was going to be more interaction with party members than the first game. I thought that was great, as that was my favorite aspect of the first game, but unfortunately it wasn't true. The new and improved party interaction? Forcing me into a game of "making the rounds," by talking to each member in their own little hole on the Ebon Hawk every new planet in hopes they have something new to say.

 

I want party members to talk to ME, not the other way around. I want them to be talking my ear off every where I go, and respond to every decision I make.

 

Everything seemed so... vague and ambiguous, with no closure. Maybe that's the kind of stuff that complex characters and stories are made out of, but I just felt unattached and unmoved.

 

I admit, you have good writers on your staff--they can write better than me, that's for sure--but the parts of the story telling they excelled at I wasn't interested in. I could care less if the flux capacitor needs xyz interface to upload to the navicomputer over the comm link to interface with the holocron binary stream to unlock the door so I can loot a vibrosword. Or pointing out the falacies and inconsistencies in a philosophy that was created in a joint effort of popular culture and the mastermind behind the Star Wars Christmas Special. Inconsistencies? *Gasp* Imagine that! (Okay, honestly, George Lucas--not to mention the people at Obsidian--are way smarter than me, but still... it feels good to knock the guy and this game after wasting 40 hours of my life.)

 

Oh, did I mention the broken quests, broken dialogue trees, broken pathing and scripting? Meh.

 

Overall: KOTOR 1 9/10; KOTOR 2 6/10

[EnderAndrew]

The graphics looked much better in KOTOR:2 The game is slower on the XBox, but I imagine a good PC will have no problem displaying the game at reasonable speeds.

 

Quest design is much better in KOTOR:2. Even on Peragus the quests require a little thinking and backtracking. On KOTOR:1, the quests were insanely easy.

 

You completely discount KOTOR:2's influence system, the variety in characters, and replay value.

 

The Dark Side path is greatly improved.

Force Powers are greatly improved.

Dialogue is GREATLY improved.

Mini-games are improved.

Little gameplay issues like weapon switching, etc. is improved.

The workbench adds a lot to the game.

 

The mentor/apprentice theme is really nice.

 

As far as difficulty, KOTOR:1 was a joke. Anyone could beat that game. With KOTOR:2 my girlfriend has died a few times and needed to go back into certain battles with more strategy in mind.

 

I seriously think you're on crack.

[nightcleaver]

It's really strange how incredibly different various people's opinions are of this game. I sort of suspect the bad words about it made people expect and see the worst, or maybe it just wasn't quite what they wanted. Not that I expect them to feel otherwise just because of that, though.

 

Perhaps the game isn't... "unfinished"... especially considering what the "finished" state is for a lot of games, such as fable. Fable didn't have a plot, or for that matter, a party to interact with. However, you didn't get the same rounded feeling of getting to know your team in this game, and I suspect that was a lot of the charm of the first game. Obsidian also did so much with the plotline of K2, that fan-ficcers have less to work with than they did in the first game, ha.

 

 

As for difficulty, well... I've had critters/soldiers/sith attacking and hitting for 60-100 damage even fairly late in the game, on the highest difficulty. Full buffs, top-level equipment and stats, etc. Maybe it's just how I decided to play. I was never much for spamming Force lightning, or Force Wave.

 

I still think grenades were totally weak, though. The rifles ended up doing more damage than the plasma grenades, and that wasn't good.

 

On the matter of equipment: the random loot system is really a mixed blessing. You get repeats of certain items you only need 1 or two of, but the game gives you more. You can break down and use or just sell items, but for the most part, there isn't much to buy throughout the game, so selling isn't all that great an idea. However, the workbench upgrades had plenty of options for all different play-styles and strategies, and I liked it. You still end up with more components and money and items you need in the end, though, by a longshot.

[MiamiVice2828]

Revan was The Man, the Exile wasn't.

 

I agree absolutely. This was the game's essential problem. Maybe we should launch a site called BringBackRevan for KotorIII. The Star Trek community has this BringBackKirk thing, so why not? :D

[mkreku]

Every equippable item that drops the player should want to use, period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was taking the review seriously until I read this. You want every equippable items to be of use? So you mean, someone who wants to roleplay an unarmed character shouldn't get any loot at all and those who wants to use twohanded weapons should.. uh.. wait, this logic sucks. OF COURSE there has to be items that are of no worth to you. How pathetic would the game be if everytime you found something new, it was better than what you already have?! Good eq should be rare, and there should be options for every playing style known to man. Your statement is just ridiculous.

[The Confidence-Man]

I agree on the visual/environmental issues.

 

KOTOR's worlds were better realized, better looking, and just had more character to them. Sith Lords' environments simply lack atmosphere. Peragus for example would've been much cooler if the main power was out and only emergency lights were on throughout the station. I don't know what could've made Telos better; the bland greyness of Citadel Station combined with the awfully linear and plain looking surface just made for an anasthetic experience. Compared with the beginning area of KOTOR, Taris with it's contrast of sleek bluish skyscrapers and run-down innards was just more interesting to walk around, never mind being better designed with more to see and do.

[Tel Aviv]

Revan was The Man, the Exile wasn't.

 

I agree absolutely. This was the game's essential problem. Maybe we should launch a site called BringBackRevan for KotorIII. The Star Trek community has this BringBackKirk thing, so why not? :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't understand all this Revan worship. He was essentially two dimensional. It irks me so. People often say KOTOR was about redemption, yet not once did BioWare confront Revan's genocidal past. No guilt whatsoever. Left bare like his relationship wilh Malak.

 

Don't get me started!

[drcloak]

I agree with 99% of what the original poster stated. Sometimes, truths and facts simply hurt.

 

Concerning the idea of having emergency lights on, as the main power is down in Peragus, would have been brilliant. Even more so if certain sections had flickering light blue lights, and shadows everywhere.

 

Combine this effect with an even more eerie musical score and you have yourself a strong atmosphere and tone, to kick off the first level of the game. It would also fit the level's theme better.

 

Imagine watching the holo vids of the miner's logs in near darkness, as lights are casually flickering in the background. Perhaps the use of water dripping from the ceiling in certain areas, built up from condensation, as the temperature controls are working eratically due to the main power being down.

 

There are tons of things they could have done to enhance each level/planet/area in this game.

 

As for the game's difficulty level, I thought it was appalling. People say "You play this type of game for the story, more so than it's challenge" I say B.S. If you want a good story, read a novel. I need to be challenged, in order to enter what some call 'Supsended Animation'. Where the threat of death is real, and you play more carefully to avoid it.

 

In K2, I never feared death. Why not? Because I'm running around with half of my attributes in the mid 20s and the other half in the low 30s, absolutely crushing all in my path, with the setting on 'Difficult', with no party members in my group.

 

- dr cloak

[Achalon]

????

 

Well, I'd have loved it if my character was completly customizable,

 

If I could have been piloting the Ebon Hawk all over the place like a fighter video game,

 

If I could have chosen Eye and Hair color....

 

If every decision I made changed every dialogue tree in the game....

 

If I could have flipped the light switches on and off on everything....

 

If I could have completly blown off the story and made up one of my own...

 

Are these all cool Ideas? I think so. Are they in the game? No. So get a grip...

 

"In K2, I never feared death. Why not? Because I'm running around with half of my attributes in the mid 20s and the other half in the low 30s, absolutely crushing all in my path, with the setting on 'Difficult', with no party members in my group."

 

Really? I thought the difficulty wasn't too bad. I had to watch what I did until I hit level 25-30. And at that point, I think I should have been devistating everyone (and I still had to be careful from time to time).

[drcloak]

????

 

Well, I'd have loved it if my character was completly customizable,

 

If I could have been piloting the Ebon Hawk all over the place like a fighter video game,

 

If I could have chosen Eye and Hair color....

 

If every decision I made changed every dialogue tree in the game....

 

If I could have flipped the light switches on and off on everything....

 

If I could have completly blown off the story and made up one of my own...

 

Are these all cool Ideas?  I think so.  Are they in the game?  No.  So get a grip... 

 

"In K2, I never feared death. Why not? Because I'm running around with half of my attributes in the mid 20s and the other half in the low 30s, absolutely crushing all in my path, with the setting on 'Difficult', with no party members in my group."

 

Really?  I thought the difficulty wasn't too bad.  I had to watch what I did until I hit level 25-30.  And at that point, I think I should have been devistating everyone (and I still had to be careful from time to time).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You're kidding right? I could solo this game on 'Difficult' setting using a vibro sword, no force powers and nobody in my party.

 

You just have to be an expert at utilizing game mechanics to your advantage, and also at equipment/skill/attribute optimization.

 

I just find it hard to believe anyone would have trouble getting through this game on 'Normal' setting.

 

- dr cloak

[Achalon]

You're kidding right?  I could solo this game on 'Difficult' setting using a vibro sword, no force powers and nobody in my party.

 

You just have to be an expert at utilizing game mechanics to your advantage, and also at equipment/skill/attribute optimization.

 

I just find it hard to believe anyone would have trouble getting through this game on 'Normal' setting.

 

- dr cloak

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

SPOILERish.............not really, but kinda..........

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll admit I died only occasionally (twice I think). But when you first get Mira, I didn't want to level her past 10 until I could convert her, I couldn't face even two of those enemies at once without going through my inventory like mad or running around in circles alot. lol

[Shadowstrider]

Why is KotOR1 in such high regards compared to KotOR2?

 

One word.

 

Nostalgia.

 

1. A bittersweet longing for things, persons, or situations of the past.

 

Go play KotOR2, then go play KotOR1. KotOR2 is hands down superior to KotOR1. The plot of KotOR1 was simplistic with only 1 good "twist" and several convuluted and simply moronic ones, and weren't the "twists" of KotOR1 supposed to be the amazing aspects?

 

On the other side of the spectrum you have KotOR2, whose story has no great "twist" but does have a dark and mysterious plot, so mysterious that some people after beating it still don't understand it(despite it being explained pretty plainly).

 

KotOR2's greatest failing isn't that it has a poor story. KotOR2's greatest failing is that it makes players think and understand the story, rather than watching it.

[Sabahattin Dere]

KotOR2's greatest failing isn't that it has a poor story.  KotOR2's greatest failing is that it makes players think and understand the story, rather than watching it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks to all the reviewers that give hope to those waiting until Feb.!

[MiamiVice2828]

@Shadowstrider

 

LoL by saying it's about nostalgia you clearly deny that certain components in the game are simply screwed.

 

If it was like that how do you explain that e.g. NOBODY complained about BG2 when BG1 got pretty much every trophy by magazines and gamers alike? It still got better.

 

Say that again in February when the PC version of Kotor2 gets released and the number of complaining people triples.

[Shadowstrider]

@Shadowstrider

 

LoL by saying it's about nostalgia you clearly deny that certain components in the game are simply screwed.

 

I do? Thanks for claiming to know what I am "clearly denying."

 

Does the game have bugs? Yes, bugs which should have been addressed. I've had my fair share of them, but they're not fun ruining bugs. If you can recall, KotOR1 had its fair share of bugs as well, most of which seem to mirror those in KotOR2.

 

Does the game have bad areas? Sure. I did not enjoy Peragus or Nar Shadaa much. If you can recall there were a lot of complaints about KotOR1 in some areas too. Manaan seemed to be a hot-spot of complaints or boredom.

 

Does the game have some problems? Of course. Is the game better than KotOR1? Undeniably, the sheer amount of new features makes the game superior in my eyes.

 

If it was like that how do you explain that e.g. NOBODY complained about BG2 when BG1 got pretty much every trophy by magazines and gamers alike? It still got better.

 

I don't know who "nobody" is, but you're wrong. I know I complained about BG2 when it was first released. Did BG2 have better features and gameplay? Sure, but they also took out most the things BG1 did right, like lawnmower exploration areas that were truely open-ended. BG2 also started the trend of BioWare's antagonist-centric stories, which KotOR1 thankfully verged away from.

 

Say that again in February when the PC version of Kotor2 gets released and the number of complaining people triples.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As I said in my post above, KotOR2's greatest flaw is that they made the player a direct part of the story and made them think about it rather than simply showing them the story.

 

If you don't understand that statement then its easy to see why you don't understand how it is KotOR2's greatest failing.

[DarthNipples]

In the eternal words of the Gubernator:

 

STOP WHINING!

 

... girly men.

[MiamiVice2828]

@Shadowstrider

 

Well, we perfectly agree then! :D

In terms of features the game is superior to it's predecessor, but not when it comes to delivering a coherent, well-rounded storyline.

 

Merry Christmas then buddy

[Shadowstrider]

@Shadowstrider

 

Well, we perfectly agree then!  :D

In terms of features the game is superior to it's predecessor, but not when it comes to delivering a coherent, well-rounded storyline.

 

Merry Christmas then buddy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I found it coherent. . . quite coherent, in fact.

 

Happy holidays all the same.

[Ludozee]

As I said in my post above, KotOR2's greatest flaw is that they made the player a direct part of the story and made them think about it rather than simply showing them the story.

 

If you don't understand that statement then its easy to see why you don't understand how it is KotOR2's greatest failing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you care to explain that? Because IMO, that would be a very strong point for a game, instead of a flaw.

Do you mean that the people who played KotOR 1 wanted to be passively entertained, like a movie? If that is true, you don't think much of the average KotOR fan

[Shadowstrider]

As I said in my post above, KotOR2's greatest flaw is that they made the player a direct part of the story and made them think about it rather than simply showing them the story.

 

If you don't understand that statement then its easy to see why you don't understand how it is KotOR2's greatest failing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you care to explain that? Because IMO, that would be a very strong point for a game, instead of a flaw.

Do you mean that the people who played KotOR 1 wanted to be passively entertained, like a movie? If that is true, you don't think much of the average KotOR fan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think it is fairly obvious. Read over some of the criticism, they found the ending "movie" unfulfilling, but they don't seem to comment much on Kreia's end dialog which is what the true ending is. She explains why everything occured and what she sees happening in the future as a result of your actions.

[Shadowstrider]

Allow me to add this:

 

It isn't that my opinion of the average player is low, it is simply that based on the majority of the criticisms people are more interested in the end fights and cinematics. A lot of the criticisms I've read also show a complete disregard of dialogs that were pretty clearly presented in game. I can't go into much detail, because this isn't th spoiler forum and it would be bad form.

[Ludozee]

I think it is fairly obvious.  Read over some of the criticism, they found the ending "movie" unfulfilling, but they don't seem to comment much on Kreia's end dialog which is what the true ending is.  She explains why everything occured and what she sees happening in the future as a result of your actions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I haven't played the game yet, but from what I hear, some people are very positive about the ending. But what does that have to do with the fact that KotOR 2 makes the player a "part" of the story instead of "showing" it?

[Shadowstrider]

I think it is fairly obvious.  Read over some of the criticism, they found the ending "movie" unfulfilling, but they don't seem to comment much on Kreia's end dialog which is what the true ending is.  She explains why everything occured and what she sees happening in the future as a result of your actions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I haven't played the game yet, but from what I hear, some people are very positive about the ending. But what does that have to do with the fact that KotOR 2 makes the player a "part" of the story instead of "showing" it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is hard to explain without giving examples and thus spoiling it. I'll do my best.

In KotOR1 you act, and immediately see some sort of repurcussion. You could easily save the game before an important decision and if you didn't like the outcome, go back. You recieved immediate gratification.

 

In KotOR2 everything isn't so black and white. You could do something seemingly inconsequential and it could lead to a loss of influence and thus a missed oppurtunity down the line. While there is good and evil in KotOR2, there is also shades of each with small miniscule details attached. A little influence here, a little there, and suddenly Bao-Dur doesn't trust you and only travels with you to save the galaxy.

 

In KotOR1 you kill Malak and are an instant hero recieving medals or a dark lord at the reigns of "the infinite fleet." In KotOR2 you are told what your actions did to effect the galaxy, planet by planet, ally by ally.

 

Perhaps using "showing" to describe it was a bit over the top, but the point still stands. In KotOR2 players are forced to think about small effects and the overall scenario, it is explained to them, just not in cinematics.

[Ludozee]

It is hard to explain without giving examples and thus spoiling it.  I'll do my best.

In KotOR1 you act, and immediately see some sort of repurcussion.  You could easily save the game before an important decision and if you didn't like the outcome, go back.  You recieved immediate gratification.

 

In KotOR2 everything isn't so black and white.  You could do something seemingly inconsequential and it could lead to a loss of influence and thus a missed oppurtunity down the line.  While there is good and evil in KotOR2, there is also shades of each with small miniscule details attached.  A little influence here, a little there, and suddenly Bao-Dur doesn't trust you and only travels with you to save the galaxy.

 

In KotOR1 you kill Malak and are an instant hero recieving medals or a dark lord at the reigns of "the infinite fleet."  In KotOR2 you are told what your actions did to effect the galaxy, planet by planet, ally by ally.

 

Perhaps using "showing" to describe it was a bit over the top, but the point still stands.  In KotOR2 players are forced to think about small effects and the overall scenario, it is explained to them, just not in cinematics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, now I know what you mean . But what do you mean if you say that that is a flaw of KotOR 2? Like I said before: IMO that is a positive thing, because it creates a certain depht in the game you don't see every day.

[Shadowstrider]

Ah, now I know what you mean . But what do you mean if you say that that is a flaw of KotOR 2? Like I said before: IMO that is a positive thing, because it creates a certain depht in the game you don't see every day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The flaw is that the majority of gamers don't want to analyze and commit dialogs to memory. Players think in the short-term and how things effect them in the short term. This is proven across platforms, games and even genres.

 

It is fairly evident if you read any threads with spoilers someone will say "X is never explained." I look back and I can think of at least 1-2 instances of X being explained, not only that, but how X is connected to Y, and how Y is connected to Z.

 

*Shrugs*