-Master of All- Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 "Then you are an idiot" -Hades ^Don't take this demon kitty too seriously, Alex. I think if you choose to pay more attention to the content and story of the game than to obsess over minor graphical/continuity issues (which exist in more than one recent title), you'll hardly notice the bugs. But then again, maybe my optimism has gotten the best of me.
Judge Hades Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 Exactly. Temple of Elemental Evil was the last straw for me and I will not put up such behavior from developers, reviewers, or publishers any more.
Bastilla_Skywalker Posted December 19, 2004 Author Posted December 19, 2004 Seriously, what the hell is it going to take to get devs to release working products? It's getting worse and worse. I mean, tech support questions go unanswered a lot of the time. As a last ditch attempt to get some help with Jedi Academy I posted on the raven forums and was immediately flamed and banned by the mod. Nothing happens. Nothing gets fixed. We still buy these games. Everything gets worse. I'm sorry if I'm becoming pretty nasty, (I was actually pretty polite in getting banned at raven), but this is getting to be too much. We buy these damn things as *recreational* prducts, and yet we have to worry so much about simply getting them to work an not being cheated out of our $50, which is a lot of money when you really think about it.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> actually I could'nt agree with yout more Naso. Infact try $100 for a Xbox game. here in Australia games for the xbox cost about AU$100 And as for you getting banned from the raven boards just for a questionis absurd! this ravan guy sounds like a absolute a**hole to me! And as for kotor II all theses bugs are really worrying me as I go to the tech forum to find out how many people are suffering bugs for the xbox version and god its is nearlly full of people having problems who have spent $50 on a game and can you imagine some one who works their butt off just too get $50 for kotor II and $50 ends up being heaps of money to them only too find that the game with their hard earned cash with a game too too full of bugs which if you ask me is unbeilevable. quite frankly I am very worried. Press Teh Button
Naso Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 Problem is, what games are there to buy? Doom 3 was patched, but like JA it took a month to have a working server browser. I guess that's more forgiveable because mp wasn't the main focus but still..... NWN was a mess. KotOR was a mess. JA was a disaster. Far Cry was supported ok I guess, but still had a lot of issues and was slow being patched. Homeworld 2 was never completely fixed because Sierra went down the toilet. Raven I wouldn't buy a game from ever anymore. What's a safe dev or publisher to buy from? UT2k4 has been wonderfully supported. Is Atari usually good? What about infogrames? I only have Civ3 from them. Oh, Raven is Raven Software, the guys who made Elite Force 1, Jedi Outcast, and Jedi Academy. Jedi Outcast was one of my favorite games, and then they released this broken mess for JA. I bought it the day it came out, because I played JO multiplayer a lot, my friend and I, and I couldn't get into servers. I finally found out that the server browser just didn't work... That and there were weird performance problems..... After weeks and no word from the devs or tech support, I went to the message boards and asked when they were going to fix it. The resident fanboys and moderator were very offended that someone wasn't in complete orgasmic joy about the game and flamed me. It carried on for a day or two, and I was banned. I sent an email about this to Raven, since what I said was perfectly legitimate and not at all rude, no bad language, etc, and they replied once asking what my username was and what exactly happened, (showing they got the email), and then left me banned and didn't respond any more.
Judge Hades Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 Infogrammes is Atari, and no they are pretty much crap as well. Have you played Temple of Elemental Evil or Masters of Orion 3? There isn't any good developers and publishers any more because they all are lacking in good solid quality nowadays. Sorry to say it, but it might be time that this industry needs to die.
Drakron Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 Sacred is still being patched ... I dont say its bad because most companies would have drop it and use the expansion to be the patch.
Naso Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 Ack.... That's too bad. I mean UT2k4 was released with bugs, but they've patched it constantly, released new content, supported the mod community, and everything, and it's been really great. I'm not saying devs need contests, prizes, and stuff. The kind of quality support they haveis what wins customers. I mean, after this game, I would have no hesitation to buy something from them, because I know that they care and will support it. I guess I'll have to cherry-pick like that. The thing is, Lucas Arts had me branded from a small child. My first game was x-wing, which I got in grade-school. The little company store / magazine things made me want their other products. I got the whole xwing series and the whole jedi knight series. Hell, I even got galactic battlegrounds against my better judgement, though mainly so I'd have something I could run on my laptop. My point is, I was a very loyal customer, and it takes quite a lot to destroy that, yet somehow they have.
Bastilla_Skywalker Posted December 19, 2004 Author Posted December 19, 2004 Infogrammes is Atari, and no they are pretty much crap as well. Have you played Temple of Elemental Evil or Masters of Orion 3? There isn't any good developers and publishers any more because they all are lacking in good solid quality nowadays. Sorry to say it, but it might be time that this industry needs to die. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well it just shows how ignorant Raven software is,now that you (you could say that certian forums are corrupted with corrupted moderators...EEEKKK) told me Ii might have a second opinion about them just for banning you for comment. Press Teh Button
Judge Hades Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 Raven doesn't matter to me. Haven't bothered to buy any of their games. Have they made any CRPGs?
Naso Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 Was just an example, and the incident that made me a very skeptical and irascible consumer....
213374U Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 It seems to me that they are not placing enough emphasis in the QA portion of development. With ever increasingly complex codes used in games, it's only logical that QA would also be a more complex and time-consuming task. However QA is only a minor part of the development process. I understand that it's difficult to code a piece of software that works perfectly on any hardware configuration, so, to a degree, hardware-related bugs are acceptable, but there is no explanation for bugs on console games, whose specs they have access to. Design flaws, which are also more common with each new game are not tolerable either. Compare it to buying a car which just dies each 20 miles or is lacking doors. Sure, it can carry you to places and stuff, but it's not a finished product. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Naso Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 They simply don't care. They're marketed at a young enough age group that there's always a fresh crop coming for when the alienate the last group, so the business model of quick sales has replaced any concern for the actual product.
GhostofAnakin Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 It seems to me that they are not placing enough emphasis in the QA portion of development. With ever increasingly complex codes used in games, it's only logical that QA would also be a more complex and time-consuming task. However QA is only a minor part of the development process. I understand that it's difficult to code a piece of software that works perfectly on any hardware configuration, so, to a degree, hardware-related bugs are acceptable, but there is no explanation for bugs on console games, whose specs they have access to. Design flaws, which are also more common with each new game are not tolerable either. Compare it to buying a car which just dies each 20 miles or is lacking doors. Sure, it can carry you to places and stuff, but it's not a finished product. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whose job was it to do the QA for TSL? It appears you're correct and that the QA was piss poor at best. But I guess that's what happens when a company wants to make sure it pushes the game out for sale in time for the Christmas season. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)
213374U Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 Whose job was it to do the QA for TSL? It appears you're correct and that the QA was piss poor at best. But I guess that's what happens when a company wants to make sure it pushes the game out for sale in time for the Christmas season. My guess is it was another great LA work. After all it's up to them to approve the RC or send it back for polishing. I think no matter how buggy or unfinished the product was, they would have approved the RC. Finding themselves with 3 SW releases in a very short time period would undoubtedly hurt their sales, and no one wants that, right? - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
GhostofAnakin Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 What I don't get is, is the slightly extra revenue for the Christmas season worth the long term bad reputation that Lucasarts (and the KOTOR series in general) is receiving? Wouldn't these same sales figures be achieved with a bit later release anyways? I don't know many people who would only buy this game for Christmas, but would decide not to buy it if it wasn't the Christmas season. IMO, whoever is running Lucasarts has a very short-sighted approach to the business. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)
Darth-Anth Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 To be honest I would've rather had the game brought out all at once. WHEN IT WAS FULLY FINISHED. Not just because Im from UK just I think it's better to wait than to recieve a game full of bugs. But still it got a 9.3 Review from IGN, but Maybe it could've went to 9.8 or something.
Volourn Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 "Infogrammes is Atari" They are fantastic supporters of games. Look at all the patches, and other support for NWN. That is an Atari game. Case closed. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Judge Hades Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 Case is not closed. Look at the crap support they have for ToEE and MoO3.
Tha_Mujician01 Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 LA obviously didnt care about the fans this time around..just themselves and the money they could make from kotor II this xmas...if they had jus left the release date till february they would probably still have the same sales figures...and the game would be more polished than it is... i have 2 words for LA.."**** You!"
Volourn Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 "Case is not closed. Look at the crap support they have for ToEE and MoO3." Irrelevant. I blame the lazy devs for that. Atari is awesome. Just look at the support NWN gets. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Naso Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 Is MoO3 really fixable with a patch? It sounds like just an interface and spreadsheet with no actual game. Why was it allowed to be released? Having been released I'm not sure there's anything that can be done though... What's up with the Temple of Evil? Could it be that Atari gives too free a reign to devs so that, like with Epic, they do a good job, and with those,they don't, and Atari simply doesn't take enough control, unlike the opposite LA? I think NWN only gets support because they're trying to milk it to death with their little online module store. If you took that away, buggyware wouldn't give a ****.....
Judge Hades Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 VOlourn, stop being an idiot. Both the Developer and publisher are responsible for a game. Atari is as much responsible for MoO3 and ToEE as they are to NWN, as well as their respective developers. Overall Atari is a crap publisher.
213374U Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 Wouldn't these same sales figures be achieved with a bit later release anyways? I don't know many people who would only buy this game for Christmas, but would decide not to buy it if it wasn't the Christmas season. I'm not sure about that. Game sales always reach a peak in Christmas season. It's like if you buy a SW game now, It's ok if you buy another one on March or May, because last one was a 'Christmas gift'. However I don't know many people that can afford/are willing to buy a SW game each month. What I do know is that if they had K2 and Republic Commando competing directly with the EP3 game, sales wouldn't be as good. International sales on those games are going to be hurt, you will see. Unless they pull off another non-simultaneous international release, that is. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Volourn Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 "I think NWN only gets support because they're trying to milk it to death with their little online module store. If you took that away, buggyware wouldn't give a ****..... " That's hilarious consideirng that they were rleasing patches way before DD even entered the equation. Buggyware? Hahaha. The pun. BIO's games are usually the least buggy of any PC developer. WOWSERS! Then again, you are the one who seems to maintian that all of BIO's release don't work after 5 minutes so your opinion is moot. "Overall Atari is a crap publisher." No. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
213374U Posted December 19, 2004 Posted December 19, 2004 I think NWN only gets support because they're trying to milk it to death with their little online module store. If you took that away, buggyware wouldn't give a ****..... I wonder how long will it take them to add 'Buggyware' to the filtered word list, just like In-eptplay. " - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
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