Confessions of an Associate Producer

[John Morgan]

Some of you might remember me as a designer on KoTOR2 (AKA "The Morgan Man") and now I have ascended to the rank of Associate Producer here at Obsidian Entertainment. Since it took me years of semi-casual job-hunting while in school and 9 straight months of hardcorde searching after, I thought I'd impart some of the wisdom I have gleaned from my experiences. I'd be happy to answer any questions you all have about the industry, the interview process, the development cycle, or any general questions about the company itself.

 

I found that there were precious few "insiders" that were willing to give me specific advice about my situation (it's an industry of busy and tired people) so I thought I'd return the favor and try to help out any of you lost souls out there.

 

Open fire!

 

 

(P.S. I'm keeping this thread as lean as possible so don't take it the wrong way if your post goes away after a while)

[Wysardry]

Do you have any tips for the initial planning stages of an indie CRPG, such as recruiting volunteer contributors when there's little to show them?

[Kazic]

As Associate Producer, what exactly do you do?

[Oerwinde]

OK, heres a question, since you probably worked with them, what are the hours like in the art department for the average developer in crunch time and out?

[pants_happy]

-what were your major(s) in college;

-which major(s) or minors would you recommend, which are recommended across the industry;

-what made you want to become a game designer, what did you do to ensure that you achieved that goal;

-did you play a lot of video games before you were hired (and do you now), or just really appreciate the few you play;

-what other jobs did you consider applying for, game industry or otherwise;

-how did you present your skill to your interviewers (portfolio, design documents, working demo?)

-what is the most important thing to know/keep in mind/do going into an interview in such a coveted position, what are the worst things to do;

-why do you think they picked you out of everyone (because of strengths, mindset, experience, perhaps very convincing?);

-how did they test your skills;

-what tasks or jobs have you had to do as a designer that you weren't told about in the interview;

-did they take note of where you went to college and what you majored in, or were they more interested in the skills you were able to present;

-what made you better than others applying to obsidian(what made you more desireable and/or stand out in a crowd?);

-about how many rejections abroad did you get before you were seriously considered, and what did you learn from them;

-what design or gaming experience did you have going into the industry;

-what expectations did you have going in to the industry, and how have they changed;

-what path would you recommend to a person wanting to become a designer, (and even if you strongly recommend it) and is a college degree necessary;

-what would a typical day at obsidian consist of for you;

-describe, if you can, a non-typical day you had at obsidian;

-how much contact did you have with programmers and artists working on KOTR2, do you see them often;

-what do you feel was your best contribution to KOTR2, what do you wish you had done differently or had a hand in;

-what are your likes and dislikes of your job (the position itself, not being at obsidian);

-typically, how many hours a day do you work? does that differ from hours said during your interview;

-what is the atmosphere like? casual? team-oriented? stressful?;

-what advice would you give a designer about to start his/her job (on his first day);

-do you have any programming or artistic skill;

-have you held any positions at wizards of the coast;

-is there anything else you can say about your job and what it consists of, how to become a designer, experience every person applying for a design position or any other position should have, what to expect working at a game studio, in a team, or as a designer in general, or anything you wish you would've done differently or known in how to become a designer?

 

 

sorry for such a huge list/request, you need not answer every one. thank you very much for any answer(s) you can give.

[John Morgan]

As Associate Producer, what exactly do you do?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Learn the producer trade

 

Actually it's mostly just helping the producer out with tasks that are taking up their time that could be better spent putting their years of experience to use making the game better. Since I'm new at this job, I'll be happy to let you guys know what kind of stuff I do over the course of the project.

[John Morgan]

OK, heres a question, since you probably worked with them, what are the hours like in the art department for the average developer in crunch time and out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually artists' workloads tend to be the opposite of designers and programmers in the sense that they are usually working extremely hard through the beggining of the project and then lull into the comfortable (but no less important) task of polish and such. They are typically the first of the group to be done with a project and tend to move on before anyone else on the team does.

[Leferd]

Are you an Associate Producer on NWN2 or is it on super secret project New Jersey? Georgia even??

[John Morgan]

what were your major(s) in college;

I majored in Film Studies with a minor in Managment

which major(s) or minors would you recommend, which are recommended across the industry;

Honestly talent is more important than formal education, although the education tends to refine ones skills. But if your goal is to get into the business, then it depends on what field within the industry you are interested in.

what made you want to become a game designer, what did you do to ensure that you achieved that goal;

I decided early on in college that I would get a job that I had fun doing because I just wouldn't be able to stand "putting up" with something just for a steady paycheck. I saw this as a fun job and since I love games and had enjoyed previously working in a project-based industry, I decided this is where I wanted to go. I made the decision and just stuck with it. As I said above, it took me nine solid months of actively looking for a job before I found one in the industry, but I stuck with it.

did you play a lot of video games before you were hired (and do you now), or just really appreciate the few you play;

I played an excessive amount of games before I even thought about getting into this industry. I do appreciate what I see in games nowadays more since joinning the ranks even though some might say that some of the magic is ruined And to be honest, I had more time to play games before I started working here...

what other jobs did you consider applying for, game industry or otherwise;

I was originally a Information and Computer Science major in college and was expecting to work for the government. After I decided to go into games, I held an IT job while I was looking for work in this industry.

how did you present your skill to your interviewers (portfolio, design documents, working demo?)

It really depends on what job you are applying for. I originally had interviewed with Obsidian for a design internship. Then, months later, they contacted me wondering if I'd still be interested in something along those lines as they were going to do a trial run of internships. It happened so fast that they didn't make me take the design test and basically just drilled me for a few hours. I guess the best way I presented my skill was through my resume and my answers to their questions. Most of it comes down to the face-to-face, regardless of your qualifications on paper. I think I just made a good impression.

what is the most important thing to know/keep in mind/do going into an interview in such a coveted position, what are the worst things to do;

From my experience interviewing with companies in this industry, the worst things you can do are:

-Be over-eager. Now, this is not the same thing as having passion or excitment about the industry, those are pluses people look for.

-Be casual about the process. It might be an informal setting or conversation, yet the person on the other end of the table is still there to figure out if you are right for the job. People will send in stuff that I wouldn't even call first-draft highschool English class material. Don't be sloppy with your work or their tests. Put in the effort.

-Insult the comapny you are interviewing with. You would not believe how many trolls from the boards apply for jobs here after clearly stating that they think our company is run by monkeys and we make crap games. Constructive criticism is one thing, but being an **** will not get you hired

 

The best advice I have is:

-Make a list of say, twenty companies you would like to work at and rank them in order of your preference. Then, try to get interviews with the companies at the bottom of the list and work your way up. Look, you are going to make mistakes in the interviews and such (everyone does) so it's best to make those mistakes with companies you are less interested in working for. That way, when you get to the top of your list, you will be a seasoned interviewee and be more comfortable with the whole thing, which will only help your chances.

-Create assests. If you want to be an artist, have a kick-ass portfolio. If you want to be a gameplay scripter or designer, have some way of demonstrating to them what you can do (Mods are a fantastic way to do this). It's just a matter of conveying to them in a timely fashion what you are capable of.

why do you think they picked you out of everyone (because of strengths, mindset, experience, perhaps very convincing?);

That is certainly a question for one of the fellas who interviewed me.

how did they test your skills;

In a very sink-or-swim manner. I would be given a meager task and if I completed it well, they would give me something a little more challenging and important. Eventually I just worked my way to a place where they regarded me as a pier (an inexperienced one, but one nonetheless)

what tasks or jobs have you had to do as a designer that you weren't told about in the interview;

I'd say just about everything I did. I was in a position where I was supposed to help out the design team any way I could to the best of my ability. They gave me vague posibilities as to what I might be doing, but nothing prepared me for the scope and breadth of tasks I was given. This included anything from doing mundane excel spreadsheet work to actually designing certain levels and quests.

did they take note of where you went to college and what you majored in, or were they more interested in the skills you were able to present;

Again, more of a question for them. But I assume that both were a factor. The fact that I completed a degree at a four-year university probably didn't hurt me any

what made you better than others applying to obsidian(what made you more desireable and/or stand out in a crowd?);

Again, for the interviewers to answer if they so wish.

about how many rejections abroad did you get before you were seriously considered, and what did you learn from them;

Several. I had been casually persuing a position for years and been turned down by lots of companies. Most of them had legitimate reasons, but they were excellent learning experiences. My do's and dont's above came from those experiences and the first-hand knowledge helped me in the end.

what design or gaming experience did you have going into the industry;

I was a writer for one thing. Scripts, novels, papers... it's all about the creativity you can call on when you need to. Honestly my experiences in college were probably the best way to hone my skills. As for gaming experience, I think I was able to demonstrate that I didn't just "play" games, but I understood them. I could go further than just saying a game was good or bad, I could tell them why with at least some insight.

what expectations did you have going in to the industry, and how have they changed;

I have had friends in the industry so I was probably more prepared that the average person coming in fresh. I think the biggest wake-up call was the fact that "**** happens!" and it's not always someone's (or some company's) fault. I used to tear into companies when a game fell short or content had to be cut or I found a bug. But looking at it from the inside, I now understand that there are so many factors and variables that go into making a game that you can never account for everything no matter how much experience you have around the table. I think the hardest thing for some people to get used to is to have their work on the game get cut or not make it in (that's assuming the entire project doesn't get scrapped). It can mean that months of work would have essentially been for nothing and some people can find that hard to take. There are many good reasons it happens, but people can still take it personally and be hurt or offended by it. You just have to grow a pretty thick skin.

what path would you recommend to a person wanting to become a designer, (and even if you strongly recommend it) and is a college degree necessary;

Designer is a hard one. I would suggest keeping your creative talents sharp, be it through writing, mod making, world creation for a pen-and-paper game... anything that keeps your imagination going, because that will be your primary tool. The other stuff is incidental... there isn't any one major in college that I would suggest... we have designers with degrees in law and environmental engineering!

what would a typical day at obsidian consist of for you;

That depends on where we are in the project cycle. A medium Monday well-into the project would be:

-Stagger in sometime around 9:30

-Catch up on emails and begin getting the latest build

-Design meeting at 10

-Company meeting at 1030

-Get some small tasks out of the way before lunch

-Lunch at around 1130

-Begin hacking away at larger issues and try to make a dent in your tasklist

-Walk around the complex with some fellow employees to chat and grab a snack around 400

-Finish up tasks and be out the door by 7

Again, this can differ GREATLY depending on where we are in the project cycle

describe, if you can, a non-typical day you had at obsidian;

During crunch time, it would be more like the list above except at the end you would need to add

-Dinner around 630

-Back to start second round of tasks.

-Get as much as humanly possible done before 100am when the nightly build process would start grabbing assets for the next day.

-Work after the build went through until you can't keep your eyes open (I'd say around 400am)

how much contact did you have with programmers and artists working on KOTR2, do you see them often;

I came on late in the project when a good chunk of the art assests were done so I really only had to go to an artist when there was a problem, but that is much different early on in the project. I saw programmers almost once-an-hour either to help fix something or figure out how to do something new. The office environment is very open and everyone is very accessable.

what do you feel was your best contribution to KOTR2, what do you wish you had done differently or had a hand in;

I think my best contribution was the small problem of having to fit a game like that on a platform that only has 64megs of RAM I was given the task to make sure all of the levels we had fit, which almost none did at the time. I really feel that was a test to see if I was ready to start on the producer track since it was a very producer thing to do. But after everyone's hard work, we got it all nice and squared away.

As for what I would like to have done differently, there were several times at the end of the project where I couldn't jump in on certain tasks because I just didn't have the knowledge of the system we were working with. If I had taken more time out to sit down and learn that stuff, I would have been able to contribute even more... but honestly I think I'd say that no matter how much I had :D

what are your likes and dislikes of your job (the position itself, not being at obsidian);

I loved my job. I was given a variety of tasks that challenged several of my skills. The job itself was a fantastic learning experience. As for dislikes, I think the only thing would be that there was no one for me to delagate to. I was the bottom of the design totem pole. But that was my job and that's what I signed up for.

typically, how many hours a day do you work? does that differ from hours said during your interview;

I'd say once we are in full swing, it's about 12hours from the time I get there to the time I leave... sometimes more and sometimes less. That's honestly about what I expected.

what is the atmosphere like? casual? team-oriented? stressful?;

One of the things I always mention when telling someone about Obsidian is the interesting duality of the atmosphere. Obsidian itself is a very casual company where it is not uncommon to hear jokes and laughter somewhere in the office almost all the time. However, I have never met so many skilled and productive people in all my life. It's a wonderful example how being casual does not mean you have to sacrifice productivity. When it's time to work, people work. We get our **** done.

On top of that, there is no one at the office (from the CEO down) that isn't approachable. The lowliest intern can walk into Feargus' office and bring something up and he would give him the same attention he would a lead designer. The management here has surrounded themselves with competent and talented people and in doing so, rarely ever have to "pull rank" on someone (and even then, it's never really ugly).

what advice would you give a designer about to start his/her job (on his first day);

For the love of Jeff, don't be afraid to ask questions. You won't bother anyone by asking a legitiment question about something you would have no way of knowing your first day on the job. And get to know the people around you. They are going to be invaluable in the coming months (not to mention you're going to be seeing lots of them )

do you have any programming or artistic skill;

I have some programming knowledge left over from my ICS days in college... as for skill, I'm going to go ahead and say no As an artist... well, let's just say there's a reason I'm a designer and not an artist! That being said, it does help to have an eye for both and at least enough competence to not be afraid of the other areas of the industry... at least in my case.

have you held any positions at wizards of the coast;

A few characters in Living Greyhawk but that's about it!

is there anything else you can say about your job and what it consists of, how to become a designer, experience every person applying for a design position or any other position should have, what to expect working at a game studio, in a team, or as a designer in general, or anything you wish you would've done differently or known in how to become a designer?

I think you pretty much covered it. But I'd like to think that my well of knowledge hasn't been tapped dry just yet, I'm sure something else will come to mind later on.

[John Morgan]

Ok, on subject, a question: why?

 

Why did you decide you wanted to work in an industry with such long hours and apparent frustration? I love gaming as much as anyone, but just 'cause you love hamburger doesn't mean you want to butcher cows all day. Are there rewards there I'm not seeing?

 

 

It's fun. I actually wake up and LOOK FORWARD to going to work. How many people can say that? The hours are long, no doubt, but if you enjoy it, then it's not too hard to stomach. As for the pay, well, Feargus tries to do right by us and takes care of his own... but money is just money... none of us got into this industry for the cash :D

[John Morgan]

Are you an Associate Producer on NWN2 or is it on super secret project New Jersey?  Georgia even??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I am the associate producer on NWN2, but I will be helping out the remanents of the KoTOR2 team get the PC as well as localized versions out the door.

[Craigboy2]

what expectations did you have going in to the industry, and how have they changed;

I have had friends in the industry so I was probably more prepared that the average person coming in fresh. I think the biggest wake-up call was the fact that "**** happens!" and it's not always someone's (or some company's) fault. I used to tear into companies when a game fell short or content had to be cut or I found a bug. But looking at it from the inside, I now understand that there are so many factors and variables that go into making a game that you can never account for everything no matter how much experience you have around the table. I think the hardest thing for some people to get used to is to have their work on the game get cut or not make it in (that's assuming the entire project doesn't get scrapped). It can mean that months of work would have essentially been for nothing and some people can find that hard to take. There are many good reasons it happens, but people can still take it personally and be hurt or offended by it. You just have to grow a pretty thick skin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alot of people should read this

 

 

 

EDIT: What does Obsidian look like, i have in my mind either a bunch of small offices or a big room filled with computers and only a few offices for the big boys.

[Oerwinde]

I've heard horror stories about working for some of the major companies (EA, Activision, Atari, etc.) from talking to people in the business would you say that Obsidian's work atmosphere is a unique thing, or do you think most small developers are fun places to work?

[GhostofAnakin]

Here's a question I was curious about (since I'm currently out of work and looking for different alternative "fields" to what I've been applying/interviewing for):

 

When someone thinks of Obsidian, they automatically think of computer stuff, like programming and whatnot. But what I always wondered was are there non-programmer/designer positions at Obsidian? For instance, my field of expertise is Finance/Accounting/Business Admin, but yet I'd never think to apply to a company like Obsidian because of the whole initial thought process that it's a "computer specialist" company in a computer industry only.

 

Does Obsidian (and any other game developer) have their own in-house "business" department? Does the CEO and higher ups (in this case Feargus) take care of the accounting and financial aspect of it? Or do you high outside financial firms to take care of that aspect of the business?

[Kazic]

Ok, I have another question. I love Video Games and have always wanted to work at a game company. Much like you, I don't think I could ever get bored in that line of work.

 

But I'm not the best at math. Are there any administrative positions that don't really require that you do actual programming, but instead get more involved with other elements of the game instead of the technical ones? For example, I love to write, wh o exactly does torylines?

[Maverick4101]

-What was the first video game job you ever got?

-Do producers get to write a lot of the script or do you hire writers?

-I want to be a producer, is a bachelors in Management good and what can I do while I am still in college to get better prepared?

 

 

-Matt

[pants_happy]

thank you so very much, mr. morgan. your answers are invaulable. :D

 

personally, i am most interested in (and least familiar with) the development cycle. how did your responsibilities as a designer change or progress during each stage of KOTR2's development, and what new challenges did each new stage bring?

 

what challenges or advantages have you found in working in a team?

 

have you ever though of keeping a designer's (or i guess now associate producer's) diary (perhaps similar to the designer's diary on gamespy, the programmer's diary on this board, or an electronic diary)? jotting down a few short sentences on the day's events whenever you feel like it (and not when you don't) could help put people in your shoes, and provide great insight into the day to day happenings of a developer.

 

what software do you need to be familiar with as an entry level designer?

 

is being a designer mostly pen and paper work and presenting your ideas to others, or is it physically implementing them too?

[John Morgan]

what expectations did you have going in to the industry, and how have they changed;

I have had friends in the industry so I was probably more prepared that the average person coming in fresh. I think the biggest wake-up call was the fact that "**** happens!" and it's not always someone's (or some company's) fault. I used to tear into companies when a game fell short or content had to be cut or I found a bug. But looking at it from the inside, I now understand that there are so many factors and variables that go into making a game that you can never account for everything no matter how much experience you have around the table. I think the hardest thing for some people to get used to is to have their work on the game get cut or not make it in (that's assuming the entire project doesn't get scrapped). It can mean that months of work would have essentially been for nothing and some people can find that hard to take. There are many good reasons it happens, but people can still take it personally and be hurt or offended by it. You just have to grow a pretty thick skin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alot of people should read this

 

 

 

EDIT: What does Obsidian look like, i have in my mind either a bunch of small offices or a big room filled with computers and only a few offices for the big boys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's essentially a long hallway with offices at either side and enough room to set up boards, a plasma screen tv for "show-and-tell" and even a few testers when we were at our peak number of employees. We also have a smaller office across the hall that is still being moved into.

[John Morgan]

I've heard horror stories about working for some of the major companies (EA, Activision, Atari, etc.) from talking to people in the business would you say that Obsidian's work atmosphere is a unique thing, or do you think most small developers are fun places to work?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Smaller companies tend to be more like Obsidian whereas larger ones tend to have almost status-quo corporate environments. A big chunk of it has to do with management styles as well.

[John Morgan]

yeah, my question is the same: why do you use annoying red type in a small font??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is something wrong with the size that changes it to 1 no matter what I do. I'm working on it. As for the color... my font is always red

[John Morgan]

Here's a question I was curious about (since I'm currently out of work and looking for different alternative "fields" to what I've been applying/interviewing for):

 

When someone thinks of Obsidian, they automatically think of computer stuff, like programming and whatnot.  But what I always wondered was are there non-programmer/designer positions at Obsidian?  For instance, my field of expertise is Finance/Accounting/Business Admin, but yet I'd never think to apply to a company like Obsidian because of the whole initial thought process that it's a "computer specialist" company in a computer industry only. 

 

Does Obsidian (and any other game developer) have their own in-house "business" department?  Does the CEO and higher ups (in this case Feargus) take care of the accounting and financial aspect of it?  Or do you high outside financial firms to take care of that aspect of the business?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What you are speaking of sounds more like what a publisher would have. They have large marketing, account, HR departments and such. Since we are only 40 or so people, it only takes a couple of people to run all the background stuff.

[John Morgan]

Ok, I have another question. I love Video Games and have always wanted to work at a game company. Much like you, I don't think I could ever get bored in that line of work.

 

But I'm not the best at math. Are there any administrative positions that don't really require that you do actual programming, but instead get more involved with other elements of the game instead of the technical ones? For example, I love to write, wh o exactly does torylines?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Obviously you don't have to have any programming knowledge for a non-programming position... but it helps to at least be familiar with the process. Our designers are the writers of our projects, but even that can be somewhat technical. Most of it is a "it's not a must, but it doesn't hurt" kind of thing. But I wouldn't say it's a requirement.

[John Morgan]

-What was the first video game job you ever got?

-Do producers get to write a lot of the script or do you hire writers?

-I want to be a producer, is a bachelors in Management good and what can I do while I am still in college to get better prepared?

 

 

-Matt

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1) My first official official game job was last May at Obsidian Entertainment :D

 

2) Scripts are handled by the designers... every single word of it

 

3) A degree in management would be a great choice since most of the job is making up and keeping people to schedules, interacting with resources outside of the company, problem solving, and basically just sitting down everyday and saying "Okay, what can I do today to make this game better"

[John Morgan]

thank you so very much, mr. morgan. your answers are invaulable.  :D

 

personally, i am most interested in (and least familiar with) the development cycle. how did your responsibilities as a designer change or progress during each stage of KOTR2's development, and what new challenges did each new stage bring?

 

what challenges or advantages have you found in working in a team?

 

have you ever though of keeping a designer's (or i guess now associate producer's) diary (perhaps similar to the designer's diary on gamespy, the programmer's diary on this board, or an electronic diary)? jotting down a few short sentences on the day's events whenever you feel like it (and not when you don't) could help put people in your shoes, and provide great insight into the day to day happenings of a developer.

 

what software do you need to be familiar with as an entry level designer?

 

is being a designer mostly pen and paper work and presenting your ideas to others, or is it physically implementing them too?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Early on in the project, most of the designers' work is "pen and paper" work in that they are coming up with the overall story and world-building. One of the most important jobs they have at that stage is to write up all of the documentation that the rest of the company is going to use for reference. These can be anything from outlines of the various chapters to the basic layout and functionality we'd like to see from the GUI. As the project progresses, we are steeped into a more "hands-on" phase and basically spend all hours creating content. This is when we are interacting directly with our toolset and literally making the "stuff" that is in the game. In dialogue-heavy games like KoTOR2, this can mean tens-of-thousands of lines of dialogue and descriptions. Once we enter the final stage, we will start locking down levels and ceasing content creation. Basically the rule is "nothing new" can go in and towards the end that can even change to "no more changes at all" as we slip into bug-fixing mode. We've been fixing bugs anyway up until this point, but now it is our soul purpose. We also like to try and play the game as much as possible. That's a very, very simplified break-down of the design process.

 

As far as software, again, most of it falls into the category of "not required, but nice to have". As for me personally, during KoTOR2 I used anything from excel and word to several art and sound programs. I didn't know how to do *everything* with all that software at the start of the project, but it didn't hurt that I was at least familiar enough with them to be comfortable with them. It's a bag of tricks that you build on over time... I've learned more than I could have imagined.

[pants_happy]

i don't know if obsidian considers this spamming, but thanks once again.