Darth Sirius Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Just because it's traced to him doesn't mean that it doesn't have an older source though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well, if all evidence traces back to him, then that puts him as the source... otherwise, if there was another source, then the phrase "all evidence traces back to plato" wouldn't hold, would it? i haven't had a chance to read chemchok's links yet to comment... network problems at home and i've been busy at work. this is one area i'm certainly open for ideas on... of course, i am a skeptic. the bummer is that we'll never know what really drove plato to the scant description he provided. taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe the 'scant' information he was provided with from these so called Egyptian priests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 yeah, maybe, but there is no evidence supporting such a link... speculation and circumstance at best, from what i can tell. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sirius Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 yeah, maybe, but there is no evidence supporting such a link... speculation and circumstance at best, from what i can tell. taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Doesn't mean it isn't true though. With things like this you could debate for hours and hours and get no further forward, because we simply do not know, and maybe we never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Just because it's traced to him doesn't mean that it doesn't have an older source though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well, if all evidence traces back to him, then that puts him as the source... otherwise, if there was another source, then the phrase "all evidence traces back to plato" wouldn't hold, would it? i haven't had a chance to read chemchok's links yet to comment... network problems at home and i've been busy at work. this is one area i'm certainly open for ideas on... of course, i am a skeptic. the bummer is that we'll never know what really drove plato to the scant description he provided. taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nice try... but you fail. Given the age of the info this could easily be a case of Plato being the only link to older info that may have been common enough at the time so he didn't feel the need to post sources but that has been lost to history sense. There are a LOT of cases where this has happened historically. To quote Volourn... you lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Doesn't mean it isn't true though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hehe, ah yes, a favorite statement by pseudo-science (i'm not saying that's what you're preaching). in essence, it is nearly impossible prove a negative. proving that something doesn't exist is a folly at best. in the absence of data to prove the positive, however, we have to assume the negative is true. i.e. since there is no proof of a link, we are bound to assume there is no link. at which time proof such a link exists, then we may revise our assumption that it does not exist. contrary, should proof such a link does not exist, then we have proved our assumption true (though this is difficult to do). this is a fundamental principle of scientific research (skepticism). taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Nice try... but you fail. Given the age of the info this could easily be a case of Plato being the only link to older info that may have been common enough at the time so he didn't feel the need to post sources but that has been lost to history sense. but we don't have evidence of this, therefore my statement is logically (and scientifically) correct. i do not fail. you are trying to make an assumption that something might exist in the absence of any evidence to prove it. There are a LOT of cases where this has happened historically. To quote Volourn... you lose. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> but those other cases do not have anything to do with this one, either. just because a plane crashed in NY does not mean the flight you're taking to CA will crash as well... it is a logical fallacy to say so, btw... perhaps you should revise your methods... sorry, but you're reaching for something you can't prove. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemchok Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Just because it's traced to him doesn't mean that it doesn't have an older source though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well, if all evidence traces back to him, then that puts him as the source... otherwise, if there was another source, then the phrase "all evidence traces back to plato" wouldn't hold, would it? i haven't had a chance to read chemchok's links yet to comment... network problems at home and i've been busy at work. this is one area i'm certainly open for ideas on... of course, i am a skeptic. the bummer is that we'll never know what really drove plato to the scant description he provided. taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, here's a brief summary. Santorini is a small group of volcanic islands 75 km off the SE of the Greek mainland. The largest island of the group is Thera, and it was the loacation of a thriving seaport of the Minoans that was quite wealthy for it's time (think of 3 storey houses with internal plumbing around 1700 BC). Thera was located on a caldera, the collapsed remnants of a once larger volcano, so the island had a ring formation, with a narrow entrance to it's harbour, this ties in to the circular layout of Plato's Atlantis. Anyway, sometime between 1650 BC and 1598 BC there was a huge explosion, estimated to have ejected at least the same, and up to 4X the amount of debris that Krakatoa did in 1883. Even something on the level of Krakatoa would have led to wideranging climactic changes around the world. For those who have never heard of Krakatoa (Wiki Link), think about a volcanic explosion that could be heard 2200 miles away, was the equivalent of 200 megatons of TNT, and darkened the skies worldwide for days. There was probably enough warning eruptions for the immediate population to leave before the explosion, but it was still cataclysmic. Portions of the island collapsed, and there would have been a ~125 foot high tsunami that would have destroyed any settlements on the North Coast of Crete 45 miles away (Crete being the center of Minoan power). So Atlantis = the Minoans city of Thera, and Atlantis' destruction = the volcanic eruption and destruction of Thera, the destruction of a large portion of their fleet due to the tidal wave, as well as damage to their cities on the North coast of Crete. So while Plato's account in his parable is probably full of garbage, it could point back to this event, which was horrible enough to leave a lasting impression on the psyche of the Mediterranean. Remember, if Atlantis is based on Thera, we're talking about something that happened over a thousand years before Plato's time, so it's extremely unlikely that the details of his account would have any historical merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MASTER Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 what is this the 10 time they have found alatis or some number like that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 sorry, but you're reaching for something you can't prove. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And this blind devotion to "it didn't happen unless I was there" approach that science uses is why VAST ammounts of proof is just thrown to the wayside or destroyed outright because it doesn't fit the existing model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 The scientific majoity doubted the existence of Troy but it was found, Atlantis may be the same thing. The only problem is that its not very interesting except for the archeologicly inclined. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ridiculous! Plenty of Nazis would be interested in it! I am following my fish. A temporary home for stranded ML'ers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child of Flame Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 The scientific majoity doubted the existence of Troy but it was found, Atlantis may be the same thing. The only problem is that its not very interesting except for the archeologicly inclined. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ridiculous! Plenty of Nazis would be interested in it! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Aye, the master race they are and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Just wait 'til someone disturbs sunken R'lyeh. Then there's gonna be trouble! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> cthulhu f'thagn " DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumquatq3 Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Remember, Cthulhu for President, why vote for the lesser of two evils? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Oh man. Nazis? Atlantis? C'mon, someone here gets it, I know it. I am following my fish. A temporary home for stranded ML'ers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemchok Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Oh man. Nazis? Atlantis? C'mon, someone here gets it, I know it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What, the Nazi's obsession with propagandistic archaeology, such as their dubious attempts to find the sword of Charlemagne, the Holy Grail, etc. Or their portrayal in pulp fiction, such as acquiring advanced Atlantean laser beam technology to take over the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkreku Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I was thinking about Indiana Jones myself.. Don't know why really. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 I was thinking about Indiana Jones myself.. Don't know why really. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 HOORAY! Only the best damn adventure game ever! I am following my fish. A temporary home for stranded ML'ers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 HOORAY! Only the best damn adventure game ever! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The man knows his stuff. Give this guy a medal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finger of Death Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Not my business. If I tell you I'm good You would probably think I'm boasting If I tell you I'm no good You know I'm lying ---Bruce Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerslave Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Several expeditions have been made to search as deep as possible within the Santorini caldera for ANY signs of ruins or other things of archeological interest (even Jacques-Ives Cousteau went there to search) and they have shown that there are absolutely no ruins whatsoever on the bottom of the caldera. The only ruins we've discovered in the immediate vicinity are the afore-mentioned groups of Minoan houses and storage rooms found by Greek archeologist Marinatos some years ago. Of course, there is still much to excavate. I'm studying archeology, already have 3 stars in my diving diploma and live in Greece, perhaps I shall organise a diving expedition there myself someday (plus: Fate of Atlantis is indeed the greatest adventure game ever ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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